[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[PoscStudent]

I love Bennett House, I also think it's probably a good height for the design. I don't know if I'd like it higher.

[mrjanejacobs]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

June 8, 2013



One building in the City where I would like to see some off-handed St.John's vibrancy is on the confederation building! We need something to animate it! The renos will make it look more fresh, but nevertheless, it's still a really dull building. A better landscaped park around the confed building would also make it more appealing. It's a pity that no one is ever around our government building other than to pass by in their car.

It would be nice if the developers had used more vibrant colours in the cladding of these pleasantville houses. They are pretty drab now (in terms of colour). The area will improve immensely once some trees are planted and landscaping is completed. I would like to see the animated colours of downtown live on in new housing development rather than in multi-story buildings - I find it would be a more subtle way of prolonging the tradition.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

It would be nice if the developers had used more vibrant colours in the cladding of these pleasantville houses. They are pretty drab now (in terms of colour). The area will improve immensely once some trees are planted and landscaping is completed. I would like to see the animated colours of downtown live on in new housing development rather than in multi-story buildings - I find it would be a more subtle way of prolonging the tradition.

I thought you were utterly against the row house colour affect on new developments lol

however I agree with what you said I'd love to see vibrant colour when people do do it.

[Marty_Mcfly]

I'll agree with that somewhat. I'd like to see more brighter greens and yellows on a few houses. Try and move away from the complete red/brown/blue/all dark colors the city seems to be in love with.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

It's an assisted living home for people who use wheelchairs, if I remember correctly.

This is what I was told by the building manager of Bennett House, so I'm assuming that he is a reasonable source. I would have liked to see it taller though. One storey is almost never a good idea IMO.

[SignalHillHiker]

Gotta agree about the colours as well. They're great, and I'm not complaining... but, in a perfect world, they would be brighter. And we know it is possible to sell brightly-coloured homes here. Every little, tiny capitulation to mainland North American tastes like that irks me a little.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

I love Bennett House, I also think it's probably a good height for the design. I don't know if I'd like it higher.

As soon as I read that, I thought... yeah, that's true. It would be a little weird taller. Which, I think, explains the Group Germain proposal for Atlantic Place. If bet if that was the height of Bennett House, everyone would love it.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

As soon as I read that, I thought... yeah, that's true. It would be a little weird taller. Which, I think, explains the Group Germain proposal for Atlantic Place. If bet if that was the height of Bennett House, everyone would love it.

Groupe Germian?

[SignalHillHiker]

Yeah. I thought we were certain they were the ones behind that proposal? Not sure.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Yeah. I thought we were certain they were the ones behind that proposal? Not sure.

Don't know. It only mentions the company who owns the garage in the agenda.

[mrjanejacobs]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

I thought you were utterly against the row house colour affect on new developments lol

however I agree with what you said I'd love to see vibrant colour when people do do it.

Oh - I am. haha that's what I said in a not so straight-forward way.

I would rather see the "jellybean colour effect" native to downtown St.John's live on in sub-divisions and new housing developments RATHER than on multi-storied mid-to-high rises. The former would be a more subtle way of preserving a tradition. The latter, to me, is too forced and I'm not a big fan. With that said, Bennett House is one of the better designs which have tried to take that approach.

I just want to see vibrancy! Bright yellows, pinks, oranges. I want to break away from a 4-5 shade colour palette like in these pictures and move toward a randomized rainbow-style palette. I think that would be a really cool way of extending NL traditions to ultra generic new suburban sub-divisions.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

Oh - I am. haha that's what I said in a not so straight-forward way.

I would rather see the "jellybean colour effect" native to downtown St.John's live on in sub-divisions and new housing developments RATHER than on multi-storied mid-to-high rises. The former would be a more subtle way of preserving a tradition. The latter, to me, is too forced and I'm not a big fan. With that said, Bennett House is one of the better designs which have tried to take that approach.

I just want to see vibrancy! Bright yellows, pinks, oranges. I want to break away from a 4-5 shade colour palette like in these pictures and move toward a randomized rainbow-style palette. I think that would be a really cool way of extending NL traditions to ultra generic new suburban sub-divisions.

I get what you're saying. I don't mind projects like Star of the Sea and Bennett House, but it'd be nice to see the color in subdivisions as well. I wonder why homebuyers lean towards the darker colors. Not all houses are built as spec homes. However, I can also understand why you might not want bright orange siding when the other twenty houses on your street are darker.

You kind of need architecture guidelines similar to Pleasantville created for new housing developments. I don't know if council wants to impose such strict rules on developers though, despite the fact that it would likely lead to better subdivision design.

[mrjanejacobs]

Originally Posted by Copes

I get what you're saying. I don't mind projects like Star of the Sea and Bennett House, but it'd be nice to see the color in subdivisions as well. I wonder why homebuyers lean towards the darker colors. Not all houses are built as spec homes. However, I can also understand why you might not want bright orange siding when the other twenty houses on your street are darker.

You kind of need architecture guidelines similar to Pleasantville created for new housing developments. I don't know if council wants to impose such strict rules on developers though, despite the fact that it would likely lead to better subdivision design.

Admittedly, there aren't many 'architecture guidelines' for Pleasantville, at least no formal ones. They made some moves which make it clear that it's part of a masterplan, but the guidelines are ambiguous nevertheless, in my view.

The City could enact a by-law requiring new sub-divisions to be coloured based on a pre-approved colour palette with more vibrant, "traditional" colours or to have a minimum quota for vibrant coloured houses in proportion with dark-coloured houses. It wouldn't be a very strict rule, I don't think, because it wouldn't cost the developer that much extra.

I don't think people would mind living in vibrant coloured houses. In fact, I think many Newfoundlanders would prefer their suburban homes to be more vibrant and would be proud to be local ambassadors of cultural tradition. However, I think the problem is a discomfort with being the first person on the block to make the move or to be the pioneer. Fair sentiment.

The City could also go as far, as mentioned before, to offering incentives to build new homes with clapboard to help support local traditions. Of course, as most agreed before, it would be unfair to force people to do so, but it would be reasonable to give an incentive, like a modest tax-break.

[jeddy1989]

you can actually find many coloured houses in sub divisions, I remember about 7 years ago when my family was going to move we looked at many new Victorian homes (very culturally specific to us seeing that we still build a style from over a hundred years ago) and many were very colourful. I think they lack colour when the developer is being cheaper.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st.+john's&...EVN7vFY0pROa8_OwUXug&cbp=12,2.3,,0,-2.22

however yes they still could be more vibrantly coloured

cheaper:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st.+john's&...NyvyVzCYYsyHlH1sbA&cbp=12,296.42,,0,2.45

I love that we still have a different architectural preference than other places in North America

and I agree that we need to keep making more vibrantly coloured ones

[SignalHillHiker]

My cousin lives on that street.

[mrjanejacobs]

You're right about developers cheaping out. With that said, the cost of coloured siding can be, at times, marginal so I think a by-law requiring more vibrant house-colours in new sub-divisions is manageable.

But unfortunately, I wouldn't say we have a different architectural preference based on the street-views you just sent... haha, those streetscapes could be found anywhere from St.John's to Halifax to the GTA to Calgary to Houston and beyond. Nevertheless, vibrant colours are a nice, even though modest, signature to a St.John's suburbia.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

Admittedly, there aren't many 'architecture guidelines' for Pleasantville, at least no formal ones. They made some moves which make it clear that it's part of a masterplan, but the guidelines are ambiguous nevertheless, in my view.

I'm curious what more could have been done, I'd be interested in your feedback. I'm not sure if you are referencing these guidelines and think that they aren't enough? Or maybe you were unaware of the Pleasantville guidelines.

http://www.clc.ca/sites/default/files/29...delines_2012-01-11_reduced_file_size.pdf

I thought the architectural guidelines for Pleasantville made it quite clear what sort of looks and feel the neighbourhood is going for. It explains what is and isn't allowed when it comes to roofs, windows, colors, etc. The landscaping guidelines I thought were quite detailed as well, going so far as to indicating that trees need to block views of asphalt parking lots, providing examples of types of trees, pathways and sidewalks, etc.

The guidelines for Pleasantville were unlike anything I've seen in a development like it before, so I was quite impressed. Perhaps not perfect, but personally, I really thought it was the right idea and an excellent precedent. It was rigid enough to make it clear the neighbourhood had a desired look and feel while still allowing developers the liberty to build the sorts of projects they are comfortable with and have built before.

Care to elaborate on what is lacking from the PDF I linked? As I said, I thought it was an excellent precedent.

[Robert Moses]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

you can actually find many coloured houses in sub divisions, I remember about 7 years ago when my family was going to move we looked at many new Victorian homes (very culturally specific to us seeing that we still build a style from over a hundred years ago) and many were very colourful. I think they lack colour when the developer is being cheaper.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st.+john's&...EVN7vFY0pROa8_OwUXug&cbp=12,2.3,,0,-2.22

however yes they still could be more vibrantly coloured

cheaper:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st.+john's&...NyvyVzCYYsyHlH1sbA&cbp=12,296.42,,0,2.45

I love that we still have a different architectural preference than other places in North America

and I agree that we need to keep making more vibrantly coloured ones

haha I actually drove past these houses yesterday and thought the colours were really nice. With that said, they're still not the same as the colours downtown.

I think it would be hard to convince most people to use those colours in a typical neighbourhood though. Would have been ideal for the kind of homes in pleasantville or any townhomes.

[Architype]

It depends on which era you look at, but most of the downtown houses were traditionally darker colours before about 1980. During the 60s thru 80s most houses in NL in general were often white, depending where you go. Some outports traditionally used lots of white or buff/cream as well as some very bright colours until white vinyl became fashionable. It's the vinyl, typically along with bad renovations, that destroyed much of the traditional architecture in NL.

[Arrakis]

What you also have to realize too is that those bright brash jellybean row colours that are on a lot of downtown homes wont necessarily work when trying to sell newly constructed homes in St. John's. Not everyone wants a bright purple or bright yellow house. And of course the siding for new homes only comes in so many colours. If I am in the market for a house and it's painted bright purple or something like that, all I see is how much is it gonna cost me to change. So developers need to stick with a more broadly appealing palette of colours when building new homes. It's then up the owners of that new house whether they want to put their personal touch on it with a different colour.

Originally Posted by Architype

It depends on which era you look at, but most of the downtown houses were traditionally darker colours before about 1980. During the 60s thru 80s most houses in NL in general were often white, depending where you go. Some outports traditionally used lots of white or buff/cream as well as some very bright colours until white vinyl became fashionable. It's the vinyl, typically along with bad renovations, that destroyed much of the traditional architecture in NL.