[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[christopher_chafe]

Not surprised at this but we only created a miniature 2750 jobs last month.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

But we'd be a better - and very wise - city if some of it did.

I want St. John's to continue to follow the general European model: preserve the old and grow in new ways.

That Hilton monstrosity, for example, would never be allowed near Oslo - yet they've managed to preserve heritage and grow beautifully.

I even admire what some smaller cities, like Sarajevo, have managed to do. Looking at that city from the air is almost like looking at the rings of a tree that's been cut down. Every era's architecture is almost completely confined to its ring and shows exactly when that part of the city was built. They didn't mix or blend at all. Changing from one era to the next is like hitting a brick wall.

But no European cities that are widely admired today - especially the ugly, commieblock monstrosities in Eastern Europe that are are reviled as our worst North American cities - destroyed what they were in order to grow.

Being too pro-development would result in St. John's becoming like Skopje, Macedonia (which suffered a devastating earthquake in the 60s).

I'd much rather we follow the Scandinavian style. Keep the heritage we have, and continue to grow - not bulldoze and start over because that's stupid and unnecessary.

Actually being too pro development would make us look like Toronto or Calgary or Vancouver.......all cities that have well paying jobs and cities that a damn well # of people want to live in.

[statbass]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Once you re-read my statement you will NOTICE i never said ALL gov employees make 40K a year.

As for median INCOME:

taken from statscan website according to 2012 census

Canada 69,860
Newfoundland and Labrador 62,580
Prince Edward Island 63,610
Nova Scotia 64,100
New Brunswick 62,150
Quebec 65,900100
Ontario 71,540a
Manitoba 66,530
Saskatchewan 72,650
Alberta 85,380
British Columbia 66,970
Yukon 86,930
Northwest Territories 101,010
Nunavut 62,680

Yes, i understand you weren't writing a generalizing statement about all government salaries, i guess my tone came off as a bit too crass... My apologies. As for the salaries listed abovet, those Are a bit misleading when comparing at a metro level since salaries in st. John's are higher than the prov average (or median for that matter.)

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Actually being too pro development would make us look like Toronto or Calgary or Vancouver.......all cities that have well paying jobs and cities that a damn well # of people want to live in.

Even if we bulldozed the entire city and invited developers to rebuild whatever they liked, I assure you we would look nothing like Toronto, Calgary or Vancouver. We'd be somewhere between Sherbrooke and Halifax. And even that's a stretch.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Even if we bulldozed the entire city and invited developers to rebuild whatever they liked, I assure you we would look nothing like Toronto, Calgary or Vancouver. We'd be somewhere between Sherbrooke and Halifax. And even that's a stretch.

I have to agree.. because then what would make us different than Halifax? the uniqueness of the city? nope .. the distance from the rest of Canda .. yup .. the increased cost of traveling here .. that too .. people dont wanna go somewhere that's the same as another city that's closer to them .. people enjoy uniqueness and thats WHY we are trying to balance it out because a city cannot survive being completely pro development nor completely pro heritage

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

I have to agree.. because then what would make us different than Halifax? the uniqueness of the city? nope .. the distance from the rest of Canda .. yup .. the increased cost of traveling here .. that too .. people dont wanna go somewhere that's the same as another city that's closer to them .. people enjoy uniqueness and thats WHY we are trying to balance it out because a city cannot survive being completely pro development nor completely pro heritage

Even people who are pro-development should really be pushing for us to hold onto as much of our heritage for as long as we can. That's what generates good developments. That's why cities like London and Oslo are so cool, while cities founded in the 1950s and on look like s**t.

Right now (and for at least the past 50 years), when we build from scratch, we generally build crap. We build Kenmount Roads and Kenmount Terraces. That's what we'd look like if we started over.

The longer we hold onto our heritage, the better we're going to look - even if we do eventually add on to or replace everything.

The Bluedrop Building could have very easily looked like the uHaul building on Kenmount Road if we'd not held onto the warehouse that was there.

And even our cool and modern developments, like Fortis, would NEVER have been proposed if we didn't force developers to jump through so many heritage-related hoops. We'd have been already blocked up with the same hideous towers as Maritime cities.

[PoscStudent]

Other cities have much better architecture with new buildings then us, without so many hoops to jump through.

[SignalHillHiker]

I disagree. I think we've done exceptionally well for a city of 106,000. I don't think there is a city even twice our size with a comparable skyline and I think you have to go above 500,000 for one that's more attractive.

[PoscStudent]

What about Regina and Saskatoon? Both cities aren't much bigger then St. John's.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

What about Regina and Saskatoon? Both cities aren't much bigger then St. John's.

Saskatoon (the city: 222,000) is more than twice the size of St. John's (and it's ugly), and Regina (the city: 193,000) is basically the size of our entire Metro. They have a couple of good buildings. So do we.

[jeddy1989]

Regina metro is basically the same size pop wise as st. john's

[jeddy1989]

this is probably what we would look like if you put the city on a flat plane and took all the history away


http://rwrant.co.za/seoul-skyline/

not much of interest there

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Regina metro is basically the same size pop wise as st. john's

Yeah, but their Metro adds nothing to their population. Regina, the city, is 193,000. St. John's, the city, is 106,000. We can count from Pouch Cove to Bay Roberts to even it out if we life, but Regina is WAY bigger than St. John's.

[SignalHillHiker]

Also, be careful judging prairie cities by their skylines from a distance.

Calgary is the only one that I would consider truly beautiful, at street level. Going from Winnipeg or Saskatoon to Calgary feels like what I imagine it is to cross from Juarez into El Paso.

Take Winnipeg, for example. It's a beautiful enough city from a distance - a nice enough skyline with some very tall buildings.

This is what it's like up close. This was the view from my office for years:





I lived there for 6 years. It TERRIFIES me when people say we should be more like Winnipeg, or Saskatoon, or Regina. It drove me to depression, living in such hideous, car-centric surroundings. I hope we NEVER follow what they're doing, ever.

Calgary even has some areas that look like the above, but they're filling in now because of their oil wealth. Edmonton looks a lot closer to the above than Calgary, but it's still light years beyond Winnipeg, Saskatoon, and Regina.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Yeah, but their Metro adds nothing to their population. Regina, the city, is 193,000. St. John's, the city, is 106,000. We can count from Pouch Cove to Bay Roberts to even it out if we life, but Regina is WAY bigger than St. John's.

It does not include out to bay roberts, it uncludes up to CBS, Regina may be more concentrated and the municpal invisible lines may incorporate more of the actual city than St. John's

I'm still saying that it's a lot less attractive than st. john's and only feels "bigger" because it has more kind of highrises in a cluster that's all

[jeddy1989]

to be honest the only thing attractive about the Regina skyline is that all together it looks urban .. but when you look at the buildings themselves they are nothing ... nothing to get jelous over lol .. the two in the middle are like scotia buildings and the rest could just as well be the old fortis buildings .. or the DT buildings from Moncton .. just that they are all in the same area

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

to be honest the only thing attractive about the Regina skyline is that all together it looks urban .. but when you look at the buildings themselves they are nothing ... nothing to get jelous over lol .. the two in the middle are like scotia buildings and the rest could just as well be the old fortis buildings .. or the DT buildings from Moncton .. just that they are all in the same area

Oh, I LOVE those two buildings in the Regina skyline, though. I remember talking about them in Winnipeg with a coworker from Regina. The other buildings are almost universally hideous but those two... that's all it takes to make it an attractive skyline. That's why I hope Fortis, 351, etc. will REALLY spruce up our skyline even more than we can imagine right now.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Saskatoon (the city: 222,000) is more than twice the size of St. John's (and it's ugly), and Regina (the city: 193,000) is basically the size of our entire Metro. They have a couple of good buildings. So do we.

Most people don't look at city population seeing it is basically insignificant and metro is more important. Regina's metro is 10,000 bigger then ours and Saskatoon's is 60,000. Both take in a larger area then St. John's metro area. Whether you consider them ugly or not both have impressive skylines, Regina in my opinion has a better skyline then Halifax despite the population difference.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Yeah, but their Metro adds nothing to their population. Regina, the city, is 193,000. St. John's, the city, is 106,000. We can count from Pouch Cove to Bay Roberts to even it out if we life, but Regina is WAY bigger than St. John's.

Bay Roberts isn't included in the metro area and a metro is calculated by people travelling to the city for work. Torbay is closer to most of St. John's then the Goulds for instance. Victoria BC only has like 80,000 people, we wouldn't compare that city to St. John's because there metro is around 350,000.

[jeddy1989]

Throw these suckers in the middle on the praries





surround them by a bunch of these:





and... VOILA almost the same thing