[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[SignalHillHiker]

I agree with Bluestar123... except that I've given up trying to like the Rooms. It's nice to have an iconic building, but it didn't have to be so... unattractive.

I'd much prefer it if the fake fishing room fascades were smaller and the glass parts much bigger. Or if it was reclad in glass to look like an iceberg or something. But the blank stone walls just get to me.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

To simplify .. the grand modern buildings of today are what the grand churches and heritage buildings were of the past

To an extent, yes. But only in relation to our grandest buildings. Fortis Place, for example, might be as beloved as the Basilica in 100 years... for many, it probably is already. And I'd agree.

But Kenmount Terrace, Kenmount Road, etc. These are regressive styles that it would have been wiser to avoid, they'll never be more loved than Water Street or Gower Street. I think The Rooms falls into this category.

[SignalHillHiker]

This, to me, is a perfect expression of suburban sprawl. This is what our neighbouring, unamalgamated cities and towns are doing to the metro region:

• Video Link

You don't want to LIVE downtown, so you move outside of it. You still want the amenities of downtown, so you get a car. You get annoyed by having to drive everywhere so you want amenities out in the middle of nowhere. Those amenities are built to serve cars, not pedestrians, because that's how you live now. On and on it goes.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

To an extent, yes. But only in relation to our grandest buildings. Fortis Place, for example, might be as beloved as the Basilica in 100 years... for many, it probably is already. And I'd agree.

But Kenmount Terrace, Kenmount Road, etc. These are regressive styles that it would have been wiser to avoid, they'll never be more loved than Water Street or Gower Street. I think The Rooms falls into this category.

If the Rooms will never be loved more than OLD St. John's, that may be true for locals, but The Rooms is listed as the TOP MUST SEE site in St. John's in a vast majority of American and European Tourist Magazines.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

I completey agree.. All of the existinf buildings had to be built at some time, what we make now will be woven into the fabric of what is St. John's. I said it once before a long time ago when talking about this ..

Years ago it was the cathedrals and public buildings that were symbols of importance prestige and gandure in cities .. also palaces and such .. in our modern world, these symbols which use to be the churches are now skyscrapers and office buildings.

To illustrate what I mean... in the 1700's the cities with the largest most elaborate and beautiful churches were concidered symbols of power, grandure and prosperity.


Today cities with beautiful skylines are looked at as the ones with success and prosperity. Also you take the symbols of the past such as the beautiful old buildings AND create a great skyline with impressive new buildings (coexisting)..

Some people have it confused both ways .. we need both and what is impressive ane beautiful today will be the heritage architecture from our period in time in the future.

To simplify .. the grand modern buildings of today are what the grand churches and heritage buildings were of the past

Which Explains Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

If the Rooms will never be loved more than OLD St. John's, that may be true for locals, but The Rooms is listed as the TOP MUST SEE site in St. John's in a vast majority of American and European Tourist Magazines.

I'm sure that's for what's inside it. It's not that impressive a building.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

To an extent, yes. But only in relation to our grandest buildings. Fortis Place, for example, might be as beloved as the Basilica in 100 years... for many, it probably is already. And I'd agree.

But Kenmount Terrace, Kenmount Road, etc. These are regressive styles that it would have been wiser to avoid, they'll never be more loved than Water Street or Gower Street. I think The Rooms falls into this category.

I never said they are all steller just because they are being built

All houses and public buildings built in the past were not great just because they were built in a certian period .. it has more to do with the style etc.

we didn't preserve those slum houses for a reason lol and we "do up" row houses for the same reason .. like reclading buildings

edit: what I was trying to get at was that the symbols of prosperity have changed and we are trying to keep the old ones which is who we were and what made us who we are today, (and are pretty ) but we need to more forward and start building the runners of todays economy and new symbols of prosperity


edit 2: maybe I'm not getting my point across but whateves you all know how I stand on development and how to do it anyways

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by MrChills

What's even more sad is that the majority of small businesses here cannot even keep up with what the government is paying - let alone even dream of what oil and gas is paying (I worked 12 years in IT and Marketing and make more in two days in the oil and gas industry as I did in two weeks at a upper management level in the city). Also, during that time I was in a hiring and firing position in the city for three years and the Provincial Government was one of our biggest headaches for taking away talent.

Exactly MrChills....... 2013 will mark my 8th year in the IT sector(and I don't mean working at Convergys). I am finishing my job here in YYT on January 11, and my final wage was a whooping $13 dollars an hour, it sickens me to no extent that for what ever reason "small business" is more welcomed in YYT and NL in general over large corporations who pay bigger wages.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Exactly MrChills....... 2013 will mark my 8th year in the IT sector(and I don't mean working at Convergys). I am finishing my job here in YYT on January 11, and my final wage was a whooping $13 dollars an hour, it sickens me to no extent that for what ever reason "small business" is more welcomed in YYT and NL in general over large corporations who pay bigger wages.

wow that wage does suck, that's kind of very low for 8 years in? I started at higher than that when I finished school

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

I never said they are all steller just because they are being built

All houses and public buildings built in the past were not great just because they were built in a certian period .. it has more to do with the style etc.

we didn't preserve those slum houses for a reason lol and we "do up" row houses for the same reason .. like reclading buildings

edit: what I was trying to get at was that the symbols of prosperity have changed and we are trying to keep the old ones which is who we were and what made us who we are today, (and are pretty ) but we need to more forward and start building the runners of todays economy and new symbols of prosperity


edit 2: maybe I'm not getting my point across but whateves you all know how I stand on development and how to do it anyways

Exactly, you got your point across perfectly. You should have included neglected and derelict buildings as well tho in the statement you mentioned about slum homes.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Exactly MrChills....... 2013 will mark my 8th year in the IT sector(and I don't mean working at Convergys). I am finishing my job here in YYT on January 11, and my final wage was a whooping $13 dollars an hour, it sickens me to no extent that for what ever reason "small business" is more welcomed in YYT and NL in general over large corporations who pay bigger wages.

That's because big corporations are all bad and small businesses are good...

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

wow that wage does suck, that's kind of very low for 8 years in? I started at higher than that when I finished school

yup only time I saw any real money was when I was living in Edmonton.....that pay was 95k a year.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

That's because big corporations are all bad and small businesses are good...

*cough* Only to the NDP *cough*

[statbass]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Exactly, and when the median is included our wages will not look so rosy here.

Actually, i believe our median household income is higher than Toronto. But once you factor in housing prices and other costs of living, there is quite a divide. As for your comment about government workers only making incomes of 40k - both my wife and i have gov jobs and i can assure you we make much more than that.

[SignalHillHiker]

For what it's worth, I've definitely noticed in a decrease in my disposable income since moving back to St. John's from Winnipeg. Almost all of my bills are less expensive - even auto insurance (which shocked me because Manitoba has an AWESOME public auto insurance program) - but it still seems to just cost more to live.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by statbass

Actually, i believe our median household income is higher than Toronto. But once you factor in housing prices and other costs of living, there is quite a divide. As for your comment about government workers only making incomes of 40k - both my wife and i have gov jobs and i can assure you we make much more than that.

Once you re-read my statement you will NOTICE i never said ALL gov employees make 40K a year.

As for median INCOME:

taken from statscan website according to 2012 census

Canada 69,860
Newfoundland and Labrador 62,580
Prince Edward Island 63,610
Nova Scotia 64,100
New Brunswick 62,150
Quebec 65,900
Ontario 71,540
Manitoba 66,530
Saskatchewan 72,650
Alberta 85,380
British Columbia 66,970
Yukon 86,930
Northwest Territories 101,010
Nunavut 62,680

[bluestar123]

All this chat between us on the rooms just proves my point. It is a centre piece, regardless if we like it or not. It does not fit in yet, still a huge part of the city. It will become a loved and maybe an iconic symbol of Newfoundland over time.
Even if it does look like a iceberg. " glass shattering in my head.. thanks hill" LOL
My main point really is that instead for fighting against something that will happen, these groups/ societies need to stop fight against the future and put forth ideas to make these new building, fit into the grand theme, of what they think St.John's should be.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by bluestar123

All this chat between us on the rooms just proves my point. It is a centre piece, regardless if we like it or not. It does not fit in yet, still a huge part of the city. It will become a loved and maybe an iconic symbol of Newfoundland over time.
Even if it does look like a iceberg. " glass shattering in my head.. thanks hill" LOL
My main point really is that instead for fighting against something that will happen, these groups/ societies need to stop fight against the future and put forth ideas to make these new building, fit into the grand theme, of what they think St.John's should be.

Exactly its just as well to realize that the DT of 1930 is NOT how the DT of 2030 will look.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by bluestar123

All this chat between us on the rooms just proves my point. It is a centre piece, regardless if we like it or not. It does not fit in yet, still a huge part of the city. It will become a loved and maybe an iconic symbol of Newfoundland over time.
Even if it does look like a iceberg. " glass shattering in my head.. thanks hill" LOL
My main point really is that instead for fighting against something that will happen, these groups/ societies need to stop fight against the future and put forth ideas to make these new building, fit into the grand theme, of what they think St.John's should be.

hey the people of France HATED the Eiffel Tower when that was first buit and called it a monstrosity

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Exactly its just as well to realize that the DT of 1930 is NOT how the DT of 2030 will look.

But we'd be a better - and very wise - city if some of it did.

I want St. John's to continue to follow the general European model: preserve the old and grow in new ways.

That Hilton monstrosity, for example, would never be allowed near Oslo - yet they've managed to preserve heritage and grow beautifully.

I even admire what some smaller cities, like Sarajevo, have managed to do. Looking at that city from the air is almost like looking at the rings of a tree that's been cut down. Every era's architecture is almost completely confined to its ring and shows exactly when that part of the city was built. They didn't mix or blend at all. Changing from one era to the next is like hitting a brick wall.

But no European cities that are widely admired today - especially the ugly, commieblock monstrosities in Eastern Europe that are are reviled as our worst North American cities - destroyed what they were in order to grow.

Being too pro-development would result in St. John's becoming like Skopje, Macedonia (which suffered a devastating earthquake in the 60s).

I'd much rather we follow the Scandinavian style. Keep the heritage we have, and continue to grow - not bulldoze and start over because that's stupid and unnecessary.