[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Anything that makes the parkade look better. That's why we're so excited.

It certainly looks like I will have to keep up with this forum after I move across Canada.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

http://vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=29506&latest=1

I can't imagine what they are planning. There is no space around the parking garage to do much of anything, not even landscaping. Any changes would have to be to the garage itself.

[PoscStudent]

Doc never mentioned the Atlantic Place garage.

[Architype]

He would only say that a new development based around the parking garage will go along way towards beautifying the waterfront and Water Street. He says the project is pending and an announcement will come in early 2013.

I thought that's what he meant, which did he mean? ... 351 then.

[PoscStudent]

I don't know? The radio portion of the interview wasn't clear, Bowring's maybe?

[SignalHillHiker]

Ooh. I jumped to a conclusion. Oh well. Whichever parkade he means: Woohoo! We have had members share rumours here about both.

[Townie709]

If he just said "the garage" I assume its Atlantic place. Everybody recognizes AP as the parking garage downtown. Many people are not familiar with 351 yet and bowrings is not a parking 'garage'.

I will assume it is referring to Atlantic Place until I hear otherwise. And Christopher, I don't expect the removal of the garage at all. I just hope something is done to make it look better. And where are you moving??

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

If he just said "the garage" I assume its Atlantic place. Everybody recognizes AP as the parking garage downtown. Many people are not familiar with 351 yet and bowrings is not a parking 'garage'.

I will assume it is referring to Atlantic Place until I hear otherwise. And Christopher, I don't expect the removal of the garage at all. I just hope something is done to make it look better. And where are you moving??

Firstly.....fu*k I hope its not the one i mentioned. Chirst I was hoping they would wait till after Duff and O'Leary are outta Council.

I am moving to Edmonton

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Firstly.....fu*k I hope its not the one i mentioned. Chirst I was hoping they would wait till after Duff and O'Leary are outta Council.

I am moving to Edmonton

To me, It doesn't sound much like the development you mentioned. Mind you, I don't know much about your mystery development.

First of all: I firmly believe "the garage" mentioned in the article is Atlantic Place. That is the only garage that people would automatically think of. Wasn't your mystery site further west, like the bowrings site which is most certainly not a parking garage.

Secondly: Doc said this development would help humanize and beautify portions of harbour drive and water street. No politician in this city would ever refer to highrise development in a historic area as beautiful. ever. it's political suicide in these parts!

Thirdly: You said the announcement for your mystery development was scheduled for late spring/early summer while this development has news coming early 2013.

From what I've read and what I know, (which is quite frankly nothing!) this doesn't sound like your mystery development. BUT, let's pretend for a moment that it is your mystery development (because he did say it would impact both harbour drive AND water street. The AP garage has no effect on water street.) What the mayor says is a good sign that it will be approved. If a generally development-neutral municipal politician in this city would tell the media of a beautiful and great highrise development smack dab in the middle of heritage-land, it must be a pretty nice proposal! That would also be a first for any municipal politician to refer to highrise development as beautiful and humanizing.

I still believe that this is most likely a reclad for the AP garage. I suppose It could be other things, but from what I've read renovations to the AP garage is the most likely. (which would be very great!) But I am willing (and hoping) to be suprised with more! "early 2013" can't come soon enough

And good luck with your move to edmonton! I hope you'll still keep up with us on this forum and aren't too fed up with our cities way of dealing with development

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

To me, It doesn't sound much like the development you mentioned. Mind you, I don't know much about your mystery development.

First of all: I firmly believe "the garage" mentioned in the article is Atlantic Place. That is the only garage that people would automatically think of. Wasn't your mystery site further west, like the bowrings site which is most certainly not a parking garage.

Secondly: Doc said this development would help humanize and beautify portions of harbour drive and water street. No politician in this city would ever refer to highrise development in a historic area as beautiful. ever. it's political suicide in these parts!

Thirdly: You said the announcement for your mystery development was scheduled for late spring/early summer while this development has news coming early 2013.

From what I've read and what I know, (which is quite frankly nothing!) this doesn't sound like your mystery development. BUT, let's pretend for a moment that it is your mystery development (because he did say it would impact both harbour drive AND water street. The AP garage has no effect on water street.) What the mayor says is a good sign that it will be approved. If a generally development-neutral municipal politician in this city would tell the media of a beautiful and great highrise development smack dab in the middle of heritage-land, it must be a pretty nice proposal! That would also be a first for any municipal politician to refer to highrise development as beautiful and humanizing.

I still believe that this is most likely a reclad for the AP garage. I suppose It could be other things, but from what I've read renovations to the AP garage is the most likely. (which would be very great!) But I am willing (and hoping) to be suprised with more! "early 2013" can't come soon enough

And good luck with your move to edmonton! I hope you'll still keep up with us on this forum and aren't too fed up with our cities way of dealing with development

I have every intention of keeping up with the forum. I am not fed up (YET) as I am still hoping come September we will have a majority of councilors who are pro development and have future planing vision.

[PoscStudent]

I remember Doc making similar comments maybe last year, though I'm thinking two years ago, and nothing ever happened. It was around this time of year.

[Townie709]

Don't tell us that!!!

I think something has to and will happen this time. Election season is coming up soon and he has to do something memorable that will make people vote for him. He has to step up and begin projects that will go over well with the public. He has to make a name for himself if he wants the pubic vote in the upcoming election.

[Architype]

I think the present mayor hasn't done too badly when it comes to developments.

I put a small bit of effort into listing which downtown developments occured under each mayor's watch since 1949:

• Henry G. R. Mews, 1949 -1965 - SHG Federal Building, Post office.
  
• William G. Adams, 1965 -1973 - Royal Trust (Fortis) Building, New City Hall.
  
• Dorothy Wyatt, 1973 -1981 - Atlantic Place & AP Parking Garage, Ft William Building, TD Place.
  
• John Joseph Murphy, 1981 -1990 - Cabot Place I, Delta Hotel, Fairmont Newfoundland Hotel, Baine Johnson Building, Scotia Centre.
  
• Suzanne "Shannie" Duff, 1990 -1993 - Cabot Place II (Federal).
  
• John Joseph Murphy, 1993 -1997 - nothing . . . maybe the Convention Centre ?
  
• Andy Wells, 1997 - 2008- Mile One Stadium, Delta Extension, Sewage treatment facility, The Rooms (provincial).
  
• Dennis "Doc" O'Keefe, 2008 -present - 351 Water Street, Fortis Place, Henry Bell, more developments approved and yet to come.

List if Mayors from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_St._John's,_Newfoundland_and_Labrador

Is there anything significant to be added to the list?

[PoscStudent]

The mayor really doesn't have any say on developments anyways.

[Horsell]

Like many of you I'm interested in getting more details in the New Year about that "new development based around the parking garage”. I hope it means the AP parking garage but anything around the new 351 parking garage (that the city chipped in $10 mil for) could work as well.

If it does involve the AP garage I don’t see it incorporating anything on Water St because of the number of different going concerns in that area. If it can incorporate those businesses on Water, that would be great. We’ll have to wait and see.

I haven’t been doing very well lately on guessing what and where things are going to be happening. I’ll have to retract my speculation that the building going up by Walmart on Stavanger would be a Kelsey’s Restaurant, it looks like it is going to be a TD bank…oh well, money trumps food.

On a lighter note, this column by Bob Wakeham in the Telegram sums up why we need “The Fence”.

http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/Columns/2012-12-29/article-3148038/Truth-and-fiction/1

[Horsell]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

The mayor really doesn't have any say on developments anyways.

While the Mayor only has 1 vote (2 in the case of a tie) and can’t really determine the outcome of development proposals I would hope that any Mayor I would vote for would have a vision of what kind of city he/she wants to shape for future generations.

This Mayor and Council as a whole hasn’t demonstrated that it has a vision at all and in many cases (ie: City planning / Regional planning) has tried to avoid at all turns trying to formulate one.

Everything that happens has been so ad hoc that it is scary…and in many cases we are seeing the results, or lack thereof.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Horsell

While the Mayor only has 1 vote (2 in the case of a tie) and can’t really determine the outcome of development proposals I would hope that any Mayor I would vote for would have a vision of what kind of city he/she wants to shape for future generations.

This Mayor and Council as a whole hasn’t demonstrated that it has a vision at all and in many cases (ie: City planning / Regional planning) has tried to avoid at all turns trying to formulate one.

Everything that happens has been so ad hoc that it is scary…and in many cases we are seeing the results, or lack thereof.

With all due respect to this council(and it pains me to pity them) they haven't done that bad of a job except for 1 or 2 idiotic votes. You could Elect city planners and builders from all over the world to sit on our council......heck you could even vote in Jesus Christ, and there would still be a mess made. There has to be a group of citizens in this city that has the ability to see the future so to speak and develop with the future in mind.

Other cities around the world were progressing nicely over the past 25 years or so except us here. There should be no need for all this nonsense ( US VC Them) about developing DT as DT should already have been developed and now it would only be "recladding" and stuff like that done.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

To me, It doesn't sound much like the development you mentioned. Mind you, I don't know much about your mystery development.

First of all: I firmly believe "the garage" mentioned in the article is Atlantic Place. That is the only garage that people would automatically think of. Wasn't your mystery site further west, like the bowrings site which is most certainly not a parking garage.

Secondly: Doc said this development would help humanize and beautify portions of harbour drive and water street. No politician in this city would ever refer to highrise development in a historic area as beautiful. ever. it's political suicide in these parts!

Thirdly: You said the announcement for your mystery development was scheduled for late spring/early summer while this development has news coming early 2013.

From what I've read and what I know, (which is quite frankly nothing!) this doesn't sound like your mystery development. BUT, let's pretend for a moment that it is your mystery development (because he did say it would impact both harbour drive AND water street. The AP garage has no effect on water street.) What the mayor says is a good sign that it will be approved. If a generally development-neutral municipal politician in this city would tell the media of a beautiful and great highrise development smack dab in the middle of heritage-land, it must be a pretty nice proposal! That would also be a first for any municipal politician to refer to highrise development as beautiful and humanizing.

I still believe that this is most likely a reclad for the AP garage. I suppose It could be other things, but from what I've read renovations to the AP garage is the most likely. (which would be very great!) But I am willing (and hoping) to be suprised with more! "early 2013" can't come soon enough

And good luck with your move to edmonton! I hope you'll still keep up with us on this forum and aren't too fed up with our cities way of dealing with development

From talking to my friend it appears as they are moving with this earlier than expected. Apparently Council has seen 4 different renderings for this massive proposal, and from what he told me 1 was on the fence about it while 2 flat our rejected any notion of this (and I am quoting) "Barbaric Modern Monstrosity" and apparently 1 of the 2 intends to fight this tooth and nail.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

From talking to my friend it appears as they are moving with this earlier than expected. Apparently Council has seen 4 different renderings for this massive proposal, and from what he told me 1 was on the fence about it while 2 flat our rejected any notion of this (and I am quoting) "Barbaric Modern Monstrosity" and apparently 1 of the 2 intends to fight this tooth and nail.

DAMN IT O'LEARY!!! she's obviously going to pull the "hero" card lol .. let's see what the public actually feel about this one .. as long as it doesn't take down historic properties and replaces an eyesore and makes the waterfront better ... oh the battles will happen

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

DAMN IT O'LEARY!!! she's obviously going to pull the "hero" card lol .. let's see what the public actually feel about this one .. as long as it doesn't take down historic properties and replaces an eyesore and makes the waterfront better ... oh the battles will happen

Damn not only are you gorgeous.....but your smart as well LOL........I can see this development being a contentious election issue AND JUST AS BIG AS FORTIS.