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  #4781  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 8:06 PM
isaidso isaidso is online now
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Originally Posted by FuzzyWuz View Post
They must have a minimum but it need not be expressed in dollars. We have seen some pretty wild differences in what can be done for a given amount of money. I keep thinking of information Fenwick has provided on Infocision stadium, for instance. Why can't we build something of that size for under $100 million if they did it for $60 million or so? At the least it shows how much can be done for a given amount of money.
Perhaps I don't know enough about what the different components in a stadium cost, but it's safe to say that the CFL has also done their homework, know what amenities they want in a CFL stadium, and know roughly how much they cost to build.

I like Infocision stadium, but does it meet all those check marks the CFL deems necessary? It likely goes far beyond simply building a stadium with a large enough capacity.

When I saw the 14,000 seat proposal from Halifax a few months ago, I was honestly flabbergasted. Halifax isn't even on the same page. There's not a snow ball's chance in hell that a city will get a CFL team with a stadium that looks like that. Same goes for Moncton's stadium. Do you want a facility that Maritimers can be proud of or one that will get ridiculed nationally?
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  #4782  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wespidel View Post
After Mr. Cohon made the comment that Moncton would have to spend 100 million to bring their small 8,500 permanent seat stadium up to CFL standards to have any chance to attract a CFL franchise. He also said he was concerned about potential corporate money in Moncton, and their 125,000 thousand base population, to attract season tickets holders.
Not to nitpick but:

Our stadium is 10,000 permanent seats, not 8,500

Our current CMA population is 143,000 not 125,000

Interesting discussion otherwise.
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  #4783  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 10:34 PM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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OK, I actually read it in a local paper

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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Not to nitpick but:

Our stadium is 10,000 permanent seats, not 8,500

Our current CMA population is 143,000 not 125,000

Interesting discussion otherwise.
The Moncton stadium which by the way I sat in twice and supported both CFL regular season games with friends, was written about in the press several times that I read, that said the Moncton stadium was only 8,500 permanent seats and yes the article as well said the population of Moncton was 125,000. But I myself thought Moncton because it's been really growing, was bigger too, as well I thought the stadium had 10,000 permanent seats. I actually love Moncton!
     
     
  #4784  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cormiermax View Post
Hopefully that'll fail.
Typical of far too many people. The constant attacks and belittling of Ford by the left in the media and online since day one has been nothing short of shameful. He won a resounding majority. I suspect if he runs again the same will occur.
     
     
  #4785  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Typical of far too many people. The constant attacks and belittling of Ford by the left in the media and online since day one has been nothing short of shameful. He won a resounding majority. I suspect if he runs again the same will occur.

He may have won a majority but has acted like an ass the whole time. The rules apply to everyone, there is a reason there is conflict of interest laws. He willingly broke them (and I suspect knew he broke them) because he seems to think he's above everything...and got caught. His support has totally tanked in recent years because there was no gravy train and he's been unsuccessful at the budget and getting things he wanted passed. Ford Nation has been falling apart (one of his right hand councillors called it quits on the executive committee because of the winds changing for Ford's support). Regardless of the outcome of his court appeals, I doubt he'll have as much support as last time. But since this is a stadium discussion thread, I'll focus back on stadiums...

Go stadium!
     
     
  #4786  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 11:01 PM
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Typical of far too many people. The constant attacks and belittling of Ford by the left in the media and online since day one has been nothing short of shameful. He won a resounding majority. I suspect if he runs again the same will occur.
Why am I not surprised.
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  #4787  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
He may have won a majority but has acted like an ass the whole time. The rules apply to everyone, there is a reason there is conflict of interest laws. He willingly broke them (and I suspect knew he broke them) because he seems to think he's above everything...and got caught. His support has totally tanked in recent years because there was no gravy train and he's been unsuccessful at the budget and getting things he wanted passed. Ford Nation has been falling apart (one of his right hand councillors called it quits on the executive committee because of the winds changing for Ford's support). Regardless of the outcome of his court appeals, I doubt he'll have as much support as last time. But since this is a stadium discussion thread, I'll focus back on stadiums...

Go stadium!
Exactly.

It's sick how conservatives will often defend other conservatives, regardless of the laws they break. Ford is getting exactly what he deserves, and the media criticism of him is very justified.
     
     
  #4788  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Why am I not surprised.
You shouldn't be.

At all.
     
     
  #4789  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wespidel View Post
The Moncton stadium which by the way I sat in twice and supported both CFL regular season games with friends, was written about in the press several times that I read, that said the Moncton stadium was only 8,500 permanent seats and yes the article as well said the population of Moncton was 125,000. But I myself thought Moncton because it's been really growing, was bigger too, as well I thought the stadium had 10,000 permanent seats. I actually love Moncton!
Worry pas! Minor differences.

You are essentially correct with your numbers, in the sense that Moncton isn't getting a CFL team.
     
     
  #4790  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 12:10 AM
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This isn't intended to be an argument against anyone else's opinion but is just my opinion.

There are several factors that affect the cost of a stadium; some will significantly impact the enjoyment of an event and others will result in a big cost with little return.

There are a couple of stadiums that I think should be considered as a models for Halifax but with some changes. Akron's InfoCision Stadium has a great layout and several VIP suites. It also includes a large classroom building, which isn't required in Halifax but inflated the cost. The other stadium is Stanford Stadium, however, only 24,000 sideline seats are required (not 50,000, including corner and endzone seats). Both of these stadiums are relatively low cost (in the vicinity of $2,000 per seat total cost when built - but this doesn't included parking and land cost).

I think that Halifax should build a basic two tier stadium with all folding seats. Folding seats aren't just for comfort but more importantly provide easy access to seats in a packed stadium. Economical folding seats (not plastic bucket seats) would add about $100 per seat over bench or plastic bucket seats. So for a 24,000 seat stadium that is about $2,400,000 dollars. This will greatly increase the spectator experience a relatively low cost (however, the stadium must be built to accommodate such seating).

I also think that an abundance of washrooms will greatly add to the enjoyment of a basic stadium and will allow for temporary expansion for larger events. (or in other words, portable toilets shouldn't be considered even for temporary expansion)

Only a limited number of permanent concessions should be built. BMO Filed has a high number of temporary concessions and give a fun atmosphere to the stadium. Cutting down on the permanent concessions makes sense in a stadium that will likely only see 10 - 15 large events a year.

A partial roof would be nice but isn't a necessity.

The scoreboard can be kept modest in the beginning until a better one can be afforded.

In-stadium restaurants won't make much sense in a stadium at Shannon Park where few people will go on non-event days.

Forget about all enclosed concourses such as in a hockey arena. This isn't enjoyable on most pleasant days and will cause the stadium to skyrocket in cost. This isn't because it costs more for material to enclose a stadium but because of fire safety requirements when thousands of people are in an enclosed area.

Minimize the complexity of the stadium but not the number of seats. Forget about an iconic stadium and focus on a functional stadium. In other words, don't use the new Winnipeg Stadium, Regina proposals, BC Place, Rogers Centre, etc as the stadium model. Consider half of the new Stanford Stadium as a model - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Stadium

The thing to remember is that a large 24,000 seat stadium will likely only be used for 10 - 15 large events a year, even with a CFL team. Can Halifax residents accept the idea of building such a large structure for so little use? If the answer is yes then build it at a sensible price.
     
     
  #4791  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 12:47 AM
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This was posted on the CFL in the Maritimes thread earlier this evening.

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Originally Posted by c-way-dude View Post
According to a poster on CFL.ca, Saskatchewan Roughrider radio commentator Rod Pederson has posted in his blog that the Roughriders will play the Tiger-Cats in Moncton in 2013.
Officials in Moncton city hall have also been hinting that there have been positive negotiations going on with the CFL.

The dream of another CFL game in the Maritimes next year therefore may not yet be dead!
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  #4792  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 11:51 AM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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Mr. Cohon did not say that Moncton wasn't totally ruled out

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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
This was posted on the CFL in the Maritimes thread earlier this evening.



Officials in Moncton city hall have also been hinting that there have been positive negotiations going on with the CFL.

The dream of another CFL game in the Maritimes next year therefore may not yet be dead!
Mr. Cohon did have meetings with the Mayor of Moncton at the 100th Grey Cup about a Tiger-Cat game in Moncton but did express cost concerns associated with the make shift stadium. Although Moncton does own some temporary stands from the U2 concert that they bought out right. I think the Cats want to stay close to home because of their season ticket holders but Moncton may happen because it is a better venue than in Guelp.
     
     
  #4793  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 12:33 PM
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Build it right or don't build it!

I believe the majority of the public in HRM have a right to demand a much better stadium model than what the steering committee and city council are wanting to build, which is still on the table with the new Mayor and council. Remember the new convention centre, the city and province had no problem putting 112 million into, when it was not as popular as a stadium. This time there is no time line nor a minimum FIFA requirement of only 10 thousand permanent seats, coupled with 10 thousand seats in the endzone.This is okay if it is built as a university and community stadium, which would be perfect for a Utech Bowl or a Vanier Cup but that is questionable now because they are packaging the Vanier Cup with the Grey Cup. Also this stadium model if built would duplicate which SMU is building on campus starting in 2013 which apparently will be in three phrases and end up being a 12,000 seat stadium. Halifax is a big enough city to support a CFL model stadium, if Halifax is willing is show a lot more respect for a stadium project than it is showing. Only wanting to put in 20 million for a stadium project for the size of Halifax is not showing any will or interest in building a real stadium that the people can be proud of. I believe if Halifax shows the province a lot more financial commitment and puts in 50 or 60 million to build a CFL ready made model, the province will match it or beat like they did for the new convention centre. The province as a lot more to gain financially if a CFL model stadium is built verus a small bare boned 10 to 14 thousand permanent seat stadium that will sit empty and be a total waste of 60 million dollars. So build it right or don't build it!
     
     
  #4794  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 1:24 PM
wespidel wespidel is offline
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What has to really happened here!

Is that a city Councillor or the new Mayor has to step up and show some real leadership and vision, by putting a motion on the floor that would kill the current small bare boned stadium proposal, and then ask for a new vote to commit more financially in a much bigger way to build a CFL ready made stadium model. Remembering they all ready have the public support who want to see our capital city build a major CFL model stadium and not a inadequate facility that would be a total embarrassment, and that would also have no potential or future and end up being an eyesore, and a waste of taxpayers money. So do it right the first time or don't do it!
     
     
  #4795  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 4:42 PM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
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Typical of far too many people. The constant attacks and belittling of Ford by the left in the media and online since day one has been nothing short of shameful. He won a resounding majority. I suspect if he runs again the same will occur.
...resounding majority from people that didn't actually live in the city core:

http://torontoist.com/2010/10/which_wards_voted_for_who_for_mayor/

I'm not sure Keith P. really knows what he's talking about, here. Ford got what he signed up for. There isn't some sort of Nixonian conspiracy on this: the media does what sells.
     
     
  #4796  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nilan8888 View Post
...resounding majority from people that didn't actually live in the city core:

http://torontoist.com/2010/10/which_wards_voted_for_who_for_mayor/

I'm not sure Keith P. really knows what he's talking about, here. Ford got what he signed up for. There isn't some sort of Nixonian conspiracy on this: the media does what sells.
The media attacks anyone who is not of the left wing and that is well-documented. In this case though it went far beyond that into outright harassment and personal belittling, and not just by the media, but also by otherwise decorous members of the public online. Is it because he is overweight, does that make that kind of assault on ones character acceptable? I am not sure the point your link attempts to make - is it contending that an inner-core resident has a vote that is worth more than a suburbanite?
     
     
  #4797  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The media attacks anyone who is not of the left wing and that is well-documented. In this case though it went far beyond that into outright harassment and personal belittling, and not just by the media, but also by otherwise decorous members of the public online. Is it because he is overweight, does that make that kind of assault on ones character acceptable? I am not sure the point your link attempts to make - is it contending that an inner-core resident has a vote that is worth more than a suburbanite?
If we cut the partisan right-left bull shit out of the equation, what kind of man are you left with when it comes to Rob Ford? I think most people see a childish, bigoted, self deserving bumpkin who acts out at every opportunity and who is an embarrassment to this nation as the mayor of our largest city.

Everyone should see this regardless of political stripe.
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  #4798  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The media attacks anyone who is not of the left wing and that is well-documented. In this case though it went far beyond that into outright harassment and personal belittling, and not just by the media, but also by otherwise decorous members of the public online. Is it because he is overweight, does that make that kind of assault on ones character acceptable? I am not sure the point your link attempts to make - is it contending that an inner-core resident has a vote that is worth more than a suburbanite?
Oh please. The media criticises everyone and everything. It's not that Ford is of the right, it's that he's irrational, and in this specific case he was discovered to have been breaking the rules.

Anyone breaking the rules needs to be punished accordingly -- including people with leftist political beliefs.

And given your own comments, can you not conclude that online activities often get out of hand? If people online made fun of his weight: so what? This has nothing to do with journalists, so you shouldn't care, quite frankly.
     
     
  #4799  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2012, 12:12 AM
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Seeing as Rob Ford was turfed in relation to High School football, perhaps this subject isn't as unrelated to this thread as it would otherwise be.

Quote:
The media attacks anyone who is not of the left wing and that is well-documented. In this case though it went far beyond that into outright harassment and personal belittling, and not just by the media, but also by otherwise decorous members of the public online. Is it because he is overweight, does that make that kind of assault on ones character acceptable? I am not sure the point your link attempts to make - is it contending that an inner-core resident has a vote that is worth more than a suburbanite?
I must be missing the huge, never-ending tirade of attacks made on Stephen Harper, then. You know, as compared to Brian Mulrooney. I don't know about these 'well-documented' cases... it seems to me an eagerness for victimhood, just as it was with Nixon and so many before him. All just anger projection and easy answers.

Rob Ford pandered to easy answers. THAT'S why he's been a target. And then he does all this crud, gets himself in trouble and cries public conspiracy.
     
     
  #4800  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2012, 12:44 AM
Hali87 Hali87 is offline
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Originally Posted by wespidel View Post
I believe the majority of the public in HRM have a right to demand a much better stadium model than what the steering committee and city council are wanting to build, which is still on the table with the new Mayor and council. Remember the new convention centre, the city and province had no problem putting 112 million into, when it was not as popular as a stadium.
I don't think it's accurate to state that the majority of the public want a stadium more than a new convention centre; if that's the case I'd love to see some hard evidence other than an informal online poll. A LOT of people are against a stadium, and a lot more are not against a stadium in principle, but ARE against building a stadium AND a convention centre immediately after the new library, and the CC is already a done deal. I would definitely support a stadium as long as major tenants can be lined up beforehand. I am also not too picky whether it's CFL, soccer or lacrosse; any major league sport would be ok with me. But I do not believe a stadium is a priority for the majority of HRM citizens at this time. If anything I think many would like to see one built just to end the debate over whether or not to build it.
     
     
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