ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[simms3_redux]

People had to actually sign and initial that their views were not only not protected, but that there were further planned towers in the area. People are so selfish...they're only pissed because they WAYYYYY overpaid for their current condos (i.e. $700K+) when now they would only go for $150K-250K tops.

People were so enamored with this building that they were paying a substantial non-refundable just to be considered in a drawing type of situation for having a condo. It's their fault they could not see the huge micro-bubble just for this building, and it's double their fault that they just did not predict that all of those holes around them would eventually be filled by other buildings. STUPIDITY!!!!

[BlueSangha]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

Yeah, it would be a really horrible precedent to set that people have the right to prevent highrises from being built across the street, or whatever the exact implications would have been. You have to assume every empty lot is going to be home to something that will block your view someday. If you really don't want anything built in front of your view, buy something that overlooks a permanent land use like Piedmont Park, the Federal Reserve, an interstate, a new midrise, etc.

and read the effing contract before you got to court.

[micropundit]

Which of the following projects will have the most potential impact on Atlanta's economy and skyline,if built:

1.285 Marietta
2.1125 Peachtree Street(2nd 12th & Midtown office tower)
3.3330 Peachtree Road( Regent Partners and Pope and Land's site adjacent to the 3344/Soverieign Tower)

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by micropundit

Which of the following projects will have the most potential impact on Atlanta's economy and skyline,if built:

In my opinion, 285 Marietta would. Midtown is bound to get more towers in the near future, either office or residential (more likely). Buckhead is full of new office towers. I new office tower in that area of downtown would be a change. It may set a precedent for future development in the area. It would be a big win for downtown.

Skyline wise, 1125 Peachtree Street and 3330 Peachtree Road would already be in very dense areas and not alter the skyline much, unless they were substantially tall, while 285 Marietta would help surround centennial park in high quality/density development, and extend the downtown skyline further west, off the main Peachtree Street spine.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

In my opinion, 285 Marietta would. Midtown is bound to get more towers in the near future, either office or residential (more likely). Buckhead is full of new office towers. I new office tower in that area of downtown would be a change. It may set a precedent for future development in the area. It would be a big win for downtown.

Skyline wise, 1125 Peachtree Street and 3330 Peachtree Road would already be in very dense areas and not alter the skyline much, unless they were substantially tall, while 285 Marietta would help surround centennial park in high quality/density development, and extend the downtown skyline further west, off the main Peachtree Street spine.

Agree. When you see downtown from the MARTA line at West End (the first glimpse many people get of our city), the Omni Hotel is extremely prominent despite not being a very large building. 285 Marietta would add onto that and make downtown look a lot bigger.

That's not to say I'm not a big fan of all of those. Heck, I'm excited about the 12-story dual-branded hotel as well as the 22-story apartment tower.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by micropundit

Which of the following projects will have the most potential impact on Atlanta's economy and skyline,if built:

1.285 Marietta
2.1125 Peachtree Street(2nd 12th & Midtown office tower)
3.3330 Peachtree Road( Regent Partners and Pope and Land's site adjacent to the 3344/Soverieign Tower)

The tower itself will be a result of Atlanta's economy, not the other way around!

285 would be the biggest game changer because it would essentially open a whole other area up for office development and would signal that office can work outside of the traditional areas along the Peachtree spine.

1125 Peachtree is my personal hopeful, but only because I live right there and I want as few vacant blocks/parcels as possible and as much activity and density as possible. Their 1125 tower directly competes with their Metropolitan office tower 3 blocks away behind the Artmore Hotel.

3330 Peachtree would give that area a boost, but a higher parking ratio is required only because Buckhead tenants expect it and there is only so much one can do to the site that will add to the street level experience of Buckhead. It is definitely a prime site, and may be the most desirable of the sites pending recovery of Atlanta's FIRE sector (the tenants that go to Buckhead), but the way the area is laid out and its distance from the traditional postcard shots of Atlanta mean that its impact on the skyline/the city as a whole will be minimal.

[micropundit]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

The tower itself will be a result of Atlanta's economy, not the other way around!

285 would be the biggest game changer because it would essentially open a whole other area up for office development and would signal that office can work outside of the traditional areas along the Peachtree spine.

1125 Peachtree is my personal hopeful, but only because I live right there and I want as few vacant blocks/parcels as possible and as much activity and density as possible. Their 1125 tower directly competes with their Metropolitan office tower 3 blocks away behind the Artmore Hotel.

3330 Peachtree would give that area a boost, but a higher parking ratio is required only because Buckhead tenants expect it and there is only so much one can do to the site that will add to the street level experience of Buckhead. It is definitely a prime site, and may be the most desirable of the sites pending recovery of Atlanta's FIRE sector (the tenants that go to Buckhead), but the way the area is laid out and its distance from the traditional postcard shots of Atlanta mean that its impact on the skyline/the city as a whole will be minimal.

Thanks for the cogent response. I should clarify what I tried to say when I spoke about the economic impact of the repective projects. What I was driving at was ,which of these towers by virtue of its location; tenant mix or a combination of both of these factors would have the most impact on Atlanta's economy? For example, you cited the FIRE industry as being the most likely candidate for 3330. How would that measure up against attracting AT&T Mobility to 1125 or a TBS division to 285?

BTW, appreciate all of the value add you bring to this site.

[BunkyWay]

Originally Posted by briantech

Seattle's library is pretty cool ... why is brick the only thing that can "stand the test of time"?

BrianTech, you don't understand. That was built in 2004. It's too early for something to look "2000s." The building isn't even ten years old. In another five years, it would look outdated, and in another 15 years, people will be calling it an eyesore that needs to be torn down.

Brick is timeless, even in residential construction. Stone comes and goes, stucco appears dead (for now)--only brick has been constant.

I'm sure the Buckhead Library, the Hyatt Regency, and the Central Library were considered "pretty cool" in their own era.

[alleystreetindustry]

Originally Posted by briantech

Whats upsetting about it

i know this argument is best left for another forum, but there are so many "uppity" white folk that look forward to the redevelopment of "hood" areas in atlanta, not blocks in midtown atlanta and etc. but nearly every neighborhood that isnt some sort of ansley park, inman park, morningside, buckhead, and so on. the ATLANTA i grew up in was two blocks from fourth ward before it began the process of gentrification.

its just gets sooo old to listen to folk on this forum that BITCH about parts of atlanta that are "sketchy", "hood", "shady", have so much "potential", etc.! get over it! atlanta will never be a city that lacks those characteristics! its beautiful! embrace it! look at shit from the other side.

[simms3_redux]

^^^Wow. Chip on your shoulder lately?

Originally Posted by micropundit

Thanks for the cogent response. I should clarify what I tried to say when I spoke about the economic impact of the repective projects. What I was driving at was ,which of these towers by virtue of its location; tenant mix or a combination of both of these factors would have the most impact on Atlanta's economy? For example, you cited the FIRE industry as being the most likely candidate for 3330. How would that measure up against attracting AT&T Mobility to 1125 or a TBS division to 285?

BTW, appreciate all of the value add you bring to this site.

Thanks for clarification. I think AT&T mobility is definitely not a class A tenant (or at least "new construction" tenant), but what do I know about office (I'm in retail)? New construction is going to imply high rents, perhaps the highest in the city. AT&T is going for space requirements in class B buildings, if I had to guess. Actually I think they are also an owner/operator. Just as the State of GA is going to consolidate and fill an older empty office building downtown, so would an AT&T Mobility.

I think the ultimate question regarding Atlanta's economy and how it relates to new office space is which sector is improving and perhaps expanding the fastest? FIRE? Tech? Media? Government? This will sort of define which areas may see construction first (or the most construction). Each of our business districts are filled with such different tenants. For instance:

Downtown - government, agencies (GA Bar, etc), accounting (3 of the Big 4, PWC is in Midtown), design (HKS, HOK, and Cooper Carry are all in 191 Peachtree, among other firms nearby), banking (Suntrust), consulates, one law firm heh (McKenna Long Aldridge in Suntrust)

Midtown - consulting (Accenture, Boston Consulting), media (TBS), law firms (nearly all of 'em), banking (everyone but Suntrust, and then also Suntrust)

Buckhead - finance (all of your ibanking, wealth management, portfolio mgmt), insurance (Wells Fargo, PMCC, etc), real estate (literally everyone except Carter & Assoc, Tishman, and Colliers Int'l, all of your private groups, your brokerage houses, and your developers), small/regional firms (Teavana, Spanx, etc), one law firm heh (Morris Manning - nearly moved to Midtown)

Sandy Springs and Cumberland/Galleria - well I know Hitachi, Samsung, and IBM have their big campuses and their office space out there, as well as F500 HQs, corporate support, IT, etc etc

A lot of start ups and tech firms are either locating in the Cumberland/Perimeter/Gwinnett areas, or they are taking up space in adaptive re-use around downtown, but not in towers, certainly not class A space renting for >$30/SF.

One also has to keep in mind that the flight to quality (due to rent depreciation in turn due to lack of demand and over supply) have left older buildings like 550 Pharr Rd largely vacant. A lot of the once nice older buildings in prime areas such as at that and around Downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead may become very attractive before a new tower will. A new tower will only rise when our economy improves enough for a class A tenant to require an additional 300,000 SF (enough to "anchor" a 30 floor building). The problem is (for us skyscraper geeks) they will have about 15 choices from 10 different development teams. Not all 15 buildings will be going up, I can safely say that with no knowledge about anything.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

i know this argument is best left for another forum, but there are so many "uppity" white folk that look forward to the redevelopment of "hood" areas in atlanta, not blocks in midtown atlanta and etc. but nearly every neighborhood that isnt some sort of ansley park, inman park, morningside, buckhead, and so on. the ATLANTA i grew up in was two blocks from fourth ward before it began the process of gentrification.

its just gets sooo old to listen to folk on this forum that BITCH about parts of atlanta that are "sketchy", "hood", "shady", have so much "potential", etc.! get over it! atlanta will never be a city that lacks those characteristics! its beautiful! embrace it! look at shit from the other side.

Go troll somewhere else. Preferably the sketchy, hood, and shady areas you enjoy so much. People of all races want areas to improve and become nicer, I've never heard or someone wanting an area to remain a "hood".

[micropundit]

The company redeveloping the former Sears Roebuck & Co. building on Ponce de Leon has filed plans to transform the landmark into a half-million square feet of new office and retail, 204 residential units and 160 hotel rooms.

Green Street plans 245,494 square feet of retail, 20,645 square feet of restaurants and 348,000 square feet of offices at Ponce City Market, in addition to the residential units and hotel rooms. Green Street describes the project as the “redevelopment of the historic Sears building and surrounding surface parking into a regional transit-oriented mixed-use activity center.”
The first phase of Ponce City Market represents about 75 percent of the overall project and could be completed by the end of 2013.


http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/real_...-file-plans-for-ponce-city.html?page=all

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

i know this argument is best left for another forum, but there are so many "uppity" white folk that look forward to the redevelopment of "hood" areas in atlanta, not blocks in midtown atlanta and etc. but nearly every neighborhood that isnt some sort of ansley park, inman park, morningside, buckhead, and so on. the ATLANTA i grew up in was two blocks from fourth ward before it began the process of gentrification.

its just gets sooo old to listen to folk on this forum that BITCH about parts of atlanta that are "sketchy", "hood", "shady", have so much "potential", etc.! get over it! atlanta will never be a city that lacks those characteristics! its beautiful! embrace it! look at shit from the other side.

Is it just "uppity white folk" who want a relatively clean/safe/attractive neighborhood? I don't care how you color it, a run-down dangerous area is not beautiful in any city.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

i know this argument is best left for another forum, but there are so many "uppity" white folk that look forward to the redevelopment of "hood" areas in atlanta, not blocks in midtown atlanta and etc. but nearly every neighborhood that isnt some sort of ansley park, inman park, morningside, buckhead, and so on. the ATLANTA i grew up in was two blocks from fourth ward before it began the process of gentrification.

its just gets sooo old to listen to folk on this forum that BITCH about parts of atlanta that are "sketchy", "hood", "shady", have so much "potential", etc.! get over it! atlanta will never be a city that lacks those characteristics! its beautiful! embrace it! look at shit from the other side.

Yes, my black friends are always wishing there were more empty lots in the neighborhood. It's a rich part of African-American history, like jazz.

[L41A]

In defense of Alleystreet, partly because I hate piling on but also because I can empathize where he is coming from. It is true that some folks are quick to make broad generalizations about an area. I hear it often – statements disparaging anywhere south of I-20 or South Fulton or Five Points/Underground or the West End. I have lived in many parts of Atlanta (Midtown, Buckhead, Howell Mill/Defoors Ferry, Smyrna/Vinings, SW Fulton, etc. I have enjoyed each area I have lived.

The characterization of the area south of 5th Street along West Peachtree/Spring Street as “hood” is an exaggeration. Even when proposedly soften with “sketchy” is still an exaggeration. Exaggeration like that is what brings about even worst stereotypes and the greater ills of society. More accurately, the area in fact is just a couple of blocks that is comprised mostly of surface parking lots but surrounded AT&T buildings, Fox Theatre, One Georgia Center, BofA Plaza, The Varsity and Technology Square. But somehow it gets characterized as "hood" and "sketchy"

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by L41A

Exaggeration like that is what brings about even worst[sic] stereotypes and the greater ills of society.

I apologize for effecting the greater ills on a message board.

Good lord. It's a sketchy area. Guess where a lot of crimes have been committed in the past few years? Where 3rd crosses Spring St.

I fucking live on top of the area. Nobody is abandoning the "neighborhood". It's a shitty stretch of Midtown. So development is good. I'm sure there are stretches similar to it all over Atlanta.

I've never seen people so hellbent on defending vacant lots.

[simms3_redux]

Juicy banter. Doing some soul searching...wait for it...wait for it. Aha, I got it! I think I would prefer to live in 1010 Peachtree than Solace, and I think it has to do with what's nearby.

Solace, nicely renovated apartments desperately needed in the area with the best price points. Unfortunately only 3 blocks from 2 of the seediest areas in Midtown flanking 2 of 4 sides of Solace - 3rd/Spring and Pine/Juniper/Peachtree.

Ultimately can I afford 1010? No. Can I afford Solace - of course! Can I afford something in between? I'll stretch

Case in point on how one sketchy block can ruin 10 square city blocks: Bank of America Plaza's leasing troubles related to the Peachtree Pines shelter. Tenants got the hell out of that building, leaving Bentley Forbes high and dry on the most expensive basis at the time ($350/SF). BofA is still there, but they demanded a new lease which greatly reduced their space and halved their rent to $18/SF (from what I hear). I think I heard something about Troutman Sanders moving? I certainly would not want to spout false rumors... Basically tenants took into account the seediness of the area and potential crime - car thefts, panhandling, drug use, stench, lack of nearby support businesses like an upscale lunch restaurant for tenants to walk to and meet clients, etc etc. This is all because of ONE poorly run homeless shelter ruining an entire area of Atlanta.

The void of activity and the occasional erruption of shooting around 3rd/Spring is something that needs to be overcome through redevelopment and new development. There are routine shootings near Dean's Shell station and the Comedy club near me at 14th and Spring...another little hotspot that needs cleaning up after 11:00 p.m. In fact, there was a very loud shooting that scared the crap out of me and my condo neighbors in 1280 West just 3 weeks ago - it occurred in the Trump Tower empty surface lot at about 12:30 a.m. It woke us all up (normally a shooting a block away is like an "eh" if you're up to even hear it, but this sounded like it was in my bedroom...from high up!).

Anyway, bottom line is troublesome clubs (hate to say it but normally hip hop clubs and recording studio type places), vacant lots and surface lots, and poorly managed homeless shelters are all blights that need to go in order to benefit EVERYBODY and clean up the streets.

[alleystreetindustry]

Originally Posted by L41A

In defense of Alleystreet, partly because I hate piling on but also because I can empathize where he is coming from. It is true that some folks are quick to make broad generalizations about an area. I hear it often – statements disparaging anywhere south of I-20 or South Fulton or Five Points/Underground or the West End. I have lived in many parts of Atlanta (Midtown, Buckhead, Howell Mill/Defoors Ferry, Smyrna/Vinings, SW Fulton, etc. I have enjoyed each area I have lived.

The characterization of the area south of 5th Street along West Peachtree/Spring Street as “hood” is an exaggeration. Even when proposedly soften with “sketchy” is still an exaggeration. Exaggeration like that is what brings about even worst stereotypes and the greater ills of society. More accurately, the area in fact is just a couple of blocks that is comprised mostly of surface parking lots but surrounded AT&T buildings, Fox Theatre, One Georgia Center, BofA Plaza, The Varsity and Technology Square. But somehow it gets characterized as "hood" and "sketchy"

thank you for understanding! its just been after living in atlanta for all of my life and hearing it constantly gets so old! it isnt the blocks around the pine shelter, it isnt fourth ward, it isnt any of those places! its every other pocket of the city that hasnt yet properly "gentrified".

i am all for the development of surface parking lots! i am all for the renovation of abandoned homes! and its just nuts to me that people see these areas as "hood", "seedy", "sketchy", "shady", etc.! terrible crimes take place all over the city, and from experience, most of these happen in neighborhoods that supposedly lack them. what sickens me most is that these stereotypes and associations put bad epithets on those that live in the communities. get over it people! just because those streets arent upper class, "walkable", and "desirable" doesnt mean it needs to be fixed.

[cherry85]

hi, i am new arrival here.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

thank you for understanding! its just been after living in atlanta for all of my life and hearing it constantly gets so old! it isnt the blocks around the pine shelter, it isnt fourth ward, it isnt any of those places! its every other pocket of the city that hasnt yet properly "gentrified".

i am all for the development of surface parking lots! i am all for the renovation of abandoned homes! and its just nuts to me that people see these areas as "hood", "seedy", "sketchy", "shady", etc.! terrible crimes take place all over the city, and from experience, most of these happen in neighborhoods that supposedly lack them. what sickens me most is that these stereotypes and associations put bad epithets on those that live in the communities. get over it people! just because those streets arent upper class, "walkable", and "desirable" doesnt mean it needs to be fixed.

Dude, I LIVE in the community in which I am complaining about. The shelter, the decks and the empty lots create "sketchy" areas that are dangerous to be in at night. Again, no GT MBA student moseys down Spring St at night. Because they don't want to get jacked.

Nobody is making any blanket statements about Midtown or O4W.

Since you are so philosophical about all of this, you should partake of the *authentic* culture on Boulevard south of Ponce. No Starbucks here! Not a GAP in sight.