ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[K-SawDude]

JSimms:

That's an epic post that deserves some sort of award. Would you consider also posting it over at city-data? I think even more people should see all of that info pulled together in one place. It looks great for the city!

One small correction, though: It was confirmed to me the other night at a White Provision event that Jamestown is NOT directly in charge of that apartment proposal at Howell Mill/14th. Technically, it's Westbridge. Even though these guys were formally partnered with Jamestown for the White Provision development, it seems like they will actually be competitors with Jamestown now (at least on the bottom floor retail side of things).

There's also a rumor circulating that Whole Foods is eyeing a space on Howell Mill right in West Midtown. If anyone has confirmation or other info on that, please spill the beans!

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

JSimms:

There's also a rumor circulating that Whole Foods is eyeing a space on Howell Mill right in West Midtown. If anyone has confirmation or other info on that, please spill the beans!

Wow. That would be a huge snub to Midtown. No surprise though.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

JSimms:

That's an epic post that deserves some sort of award. Would you consider also posting it over at city-data? I think even more people should see all of that info pulled together in one place. It looks great for the city!

One small correction, though: It was confirmed to me the other night at a White Provision event that Jamestown is NOT directly in charge of that apartment proposal at Howell Mill/14th. Technically, it's Westbridge. Even though these guys were formally partnered with Jamestown for the White Provision development, it seems like they will actually be competitors with Jamestown now (at least on the bottom floor retail side of things).

There's also a rumor circulating that Whole Foods is eyeing a space on Howell Mill right in West Midtown. If anyone has confirmation or other info on that, please spill the beans!

I could actually elaborate further. About to go on a tour of White Provisions and Westside Urban Market right now. One is owned by a partnership where one of the partners is an executive at Jamestown, and the other is owned by an entity of Jamestown - so they are tied together that way. Some interesting stuff may matriculate with that development in 2012, but whatever I find out will probably be confidential.

That rumor will also be looked into today.

The Westside is a success because there are still parking lots, and people for whatever reason demand at-grade parking, even if it means a 2-3 block walk. Parking in Midtown is always decked, and that means people in Atlanta must learn the foreign language of Decked Parking first. We have run into this problem with a Publix/Target/Staples anchored center and Lenox Marketplace originally had tenant sales problems for the same reason. Time is the only remedy, unfortunately.

[mike1986]

Midtown needs more on-street parking... it's visible and easy and we have plenty of wide one way roads to implement on-street parking. I'd much rather see a Whole Foods in the center of Midtown than West Midtown... or a Trader's Joe's... or an independent grocery store. If they do decide to build in West Midtown I hope it's not a suburban style store.

If only Dewberry would move on his plans for 10th/Peachtree/Juniper block... looks like there is plenty of room for a Whole Foods and Barnes & Noble (or some other type of bookstore)! Maybe in 40 years at this rate...

[simms3_redux]

^^^Barnes & Noble has a large and popular urban store built into Tech Square at 5th Street.

Trader Joes has a very busy store next to Midtown Promenade. It has a parking lot, but a small parking ratio. Good luck finding a spot, especially with the football games and park events.

Also, no news or info on Whole Foods coming to West Midtown that I could gather today. Personally I do not see them there. Not enough access to high wealth in any given directions, Howell Mill being the only corridor. People towards 75 and north of there have many options, including a Whole Foods at Paces Ferry where many of them already shop. Too many students, not enough general income, not enough access.


I have decided that I am here to build as much excitement as possible about Midtown and Atlanta. Because I work in real estate, I do have access to a lot of confidential information, and unfortunately all I can do is say something might happen. I am here today to confirm that new tenants will be coming to the "Midtown Mile" soon and that activity will happen on the Westside. I can say that I STK will be opening up either Nov 28 or Dec 5 and Assellina is about a month to two months behind.

My prediction regarding Dewberry's site is that he really can't do anything with it for a long time. There is no other explanation for him leasing out to those two clubs and the farmer's market. Also, he wants super high density for that site...aka 60 floor office or something similar. He'll wait until the market can support that, and right now/next few years the market is going to support smaller 10-25 floor rental, hotel, and office projects, nothing major like we saw in 1987-1992.

[mike1986]

^True, I don't know why I keep forgetting about that Barnes & Noble. Glad there are plans for high density on Dewberry's block - just wish it was sooner rather than later.

I'm super excited about retail along the Midtown Mile. It looks like "The Clothing Warehouse" is opening a permanent store... I'm guessing we can expect more announcements soon? Can you disclose when that might be and are the tenants national or "local" retailers, or a mix of both??

Also, not sure if you know anything about these but... what's going on with the vacant condos/apartments along Piedmont Ave (between 11th and 12th)? Really surprised nobody has finished them/tried to sell or rent them out. Seems like it would be a desirable location despite the economy.

Another empty lot that drives me crazy... on 10th street next to Blue Med Spa and the fire station... would be a great site for some mid-high rise apartments.

[micropundit]

The Georgia Department of Labor plans to consolidate at least 500 jobs into downtown’s vacant 250 Piedmont tower by next summer, another sign of momentum for Atlanta’s central business district.

The project would involve a new investor, an affiliate of Atlanta-based Forum Municipal Development Services Inc., buying the 20-story building for roughly $15 million and pouring at least $25 million into upgrades





http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...00-state-workers-will-fill-downtown.html

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

^^^Barnes & Noble has a large and popular urban store built into Tech Square at 5th Street.

It's pretty empty except for Tech students. Poor book selection. Poor magazine selection.

I like having it but it's not a substitute. Unfortunately, I can't imagine a full-size B&N opening in Midtown in this economy. Unless Borders folding created an opportunity.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

It's pretty empty except for Tech students. Poor book selection. Poor magazine selection.

I like having it but it's not a substitute. Unfortunately, I can't imagine a full-size B&N opening in Midtown in this economy. Unless Borders folding created an opportunity.

Most bookstores are pretty empty nowadays, but having 20,000 students who *need* to shop there at least some is about as steady an income stream as one can hope for in that area. The store is also not at all "small" by Barnes & Noble standards, but it has a large portion of its space taken up by Tech merchandise, text books, the electronics section, and reading areas. Because its book section is smaller and has since been reduced even further in size for more commodity item space and merchandise geared for 21st century/Tech, it will fare better than stores that don't follow suit in reducing the need to sell hardcopy books. I don't buy magazines from there, but I have seen the long shelf. What magazines are missing and how do you know you aren't one of 3 people in the area who read that magazine every four months?

Long story short, if all of that space were taken up by books, the store would have failed by now. It's positioned really well because it does not provide a glut of new books, and Borders leaving unfortunately did not suddenly create a hole of supply to be filled by overwhelming demand.

By the way, there are about ~5 new tenants coming to West Midtown, some of which are relocations and some of which are credit/national retailers. Can't say where they are going or exactly when, and actually not entirely certain if they aren't past LOI, but I will drum up the excitement regardless (and wish they were coming directly to Midtown). At the rate the announcement for new tenants at 12th & Midtown is coming along, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear announcements from the Westside before.

[mike1986]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Most bookstores are pretty empty nowadays, but having 20,000 students who *need* to shop there at least some is about as steady an income stream as one can hope for in that area. The store is also not at all "small" by Barnes & Noble standards, but it has a large portion of its space taken up by Tech merchandise, text books, the electronics section, and reading areas. Because its book section is smaller and has since been reduced even further in size for more commodity item space and merchandise geared for 21st century/Tech, it will fare better than stores that don't follow suit in reducing the need to sell hardcopy books. I don't buy magazines from there, but I have seen the long shelf. What magazines are missing and how do you know you aren't one of 3 people in the area who read that magazine every four months?

Long story short, if all of that space were taken up by books, the store would have failed by now. It's positioned really well because it does not provide a glut of new books, and Borders leaving unfortunately did not suddenly create a hole of supply to be filled by overwhelming demand.

By the way, there are about ~5 new tenants coming to West Midtown, some of which are relocations and some of which are credit/national retailers. Can't say where they are going or exactly when, and actually not entirely certain if they aren't past LOI, but I will drum up the excitement regardless (and wish they were coming directly to Midtown). At the rate the announcement for new tenants at 12th & Midtown is coming along, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear announcements from the Westside before.

I hope CB2 isn't going to move to West Midtown...

I really want to see more retail on the Midtown Mile... so much potential. Sigh

[Pompuss]

Is this an updated rendering of 285 Marietta, which is the "Atlanta Times Square."
http://www.ai3online.com/results_285-marietta-street.html

and they have a concept for a new Atlanta library.
http://www.ai3online.com/results_central-atlanta-library.html

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by mike1986

I hope CB2 isn't going to move to West Midtown...

I really want to see more retail on the Midtown Mile... so much potential. Sigh

I haven't heard anything about them leaving. Besides, as has been announced by Daniel and Selig, more tenants will soon be on the Midtown Mile. Which tenants is the question.

[BunkyWay]

Originally Posted by Pompuss

and they have a concept for a new Atlanta library.
http://www.ai3online.com/results_central-atlanta-library.html

Why can't Atlanta leave the hanus modernism to private developers, and let its cultural institutions be classical? How is this library going to age? Will it be viewed by the next generation in the same way our generation views the current library?

I mean seriously, how about a nice, stately red brick or limestone structure with a pitched roof and columns? A real library that will stand the test of time. Not more crap that will look more aged than a 1970s science fiction move.

[briantech]

um

[briantech]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

Why can't Atlanta leave the hanus modernism to private developers, and let its cultural institutions be classical? How is this library going to age? Will it be viewed by the next generation in the same way our generation views the current library?

I mean seriously, how about a nice, stately red brick or limestone structure with a pitched roof and columns? A real library that will stand the test of time. Not more crap that will look more aged than a 1970s science fiction move.

Seattle's library is pretty cool ... why is brick the only thing that can "stand the test of time"?

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Pompuss

Is this an updated rendering of 285 Marietta, which is the "Atlanta Times Square."
http://www.ai3online.com/results_285-marietta-street.html

and they have a concept for a new Atlanta library.
http://www.ai3online.com/results_central-atlanta-library.html

That rendering you're showing for the 285 Marietta project is just Ai3's concept for the project. The designs we saw earlier were Cooper Carry's designs which is the company that was selected and is working with the developer on the project FWIW.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

Why can't Atlanta leave the hanus modernism to private developers, and let its cultural institutions be classical? How is this library going to age? Will it be viewed by the next generation in the same way our generation views the current library?

I mean seriously, how about a nice, stately red brick or limestone structure with a pitched roof and columns? A real library that will stand the test of time. Not more crap that will look more aged than a 1970s science fiction move.

Before you get your panties all twisted take a second to read Ai3's comments below their renderings for the library.

Beginning in 2008, the City of Atlanta initiated a public discourse concerning the relocation and rebuilding of the Central Atlanta Library. Currently located in the Fairlie-Poplar district of Atlanta, the library is viewed by some city officials as isolated and outdated. As part of the dialogue, ai3 contributed a set of conceptual renderings for the library to help illustrate and generate public support for the project.

With that said, I agree with briantech in regards that classical design isn't the only architecture that can stand the test of time. Personally, I care more about how the building would interact with the locale and engage the street (public) rather than how it looks.

[BlueSangha]

No surprise there...and again I laugh at the cry babies.

[(four 0 four)]

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

No surprise there...and again I laugh at the cry babies.

For those who might need a titch more information:
(from The Atl Business Chronicle)

The Georgia Supreme Court Monday sided with developers in a lawsuit claiming that eight people were fraudulently induced into buying condominiums at Atlantic Station under false promises of spectacular views.

In a unanimous ruling, the justices overturned a decision by the state Court of Appeals by agreeing with the trial court’s view of the case.

The plaintiffs bought condos in the 26-story “Twelve” building at Atlantic Station in 2006, only to discover that a 46-story building under construction across 17th Street would block their view of downtown.

They sued Novare Group Inc., the developers of both projects, claiming that the condos’ owners told them the units would have “spectacular city views,” and the only development planned for at least the new five years would be a low- to mid-rise office building.

But the Supreme Court ruled that those oral statements contradicted the purchase agreements the owners had signed.

“It is well-settled law in Georgia that a party who has ‘the capacity and opportunity to read a written contract cannot afterward set up a fraud’ … based on oral representations that differ from the terms of the contract,” Chief Justice Carol Hunstein wrote for the court.

The Supreme Court took the same position in the case that been taken previously by the Fulton County Superior Court.

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the ruling and was glad to see this decision from the State Supreme Court.

[testarossa50]

Yeah, it would be a really horrible precedent to set that people have the right to prevent highrises from being built across the street, or whatever the exact implications would have been. You have to assume every empty lot is going to be home to something that will block your view someday. If you really don't want anything built in front of your view, buy something that overlooks a permanent land use like Piedmont Park, the Federal Reserve, an interstate, a new midrise, etc.