Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by q12

I'm gonna start a drinking game for every time wespidal says "Mickey Mouse"...

I was thinking the same thing only for Rinky Dinky. His posts are 3 paragraphs of the same thing over and over. Sounds like wespidal might be the one with the small mind.

Anyway, Let's hope we get the 25,000 Stadium.

[Phalanx]

Something I did a couple of months back...
User Control Panel > Ignore List...

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Wow... that is the most juvenile asinine comment I have ever seen on here.

I guarantee that Halifaxboyns has contributed far more to the development of this city that you ever will, taxes or no taxes.

Until you can actually contribute to a debate on a topic, just go away.

I have to agree with the comment and as a matter of fact; I do still pay taxes to Nova Scotia. My cell phone is still a registered 902 number (mainly because my family is not technologically sound with cell phones), but I have paid HST every year I've been out here in Alberta with every cell phone bill.

Thanks for the comment beyeas. My one year with the HRM planning dept was a great foundation to my career and I owe a lot to them.

Its obvious to me that wespidel doesn't understand budgeting and how many comes through the tax/budget process, otherwise he'd realize that most of the facilities he's mentioned are getting funds that have been alocated to those projects many years ago. I remember when funding for a sportsplex expansion was approved and set aside, when I still worked with hrm. The money just sat there...until now.

I was going to say he was a great example of a 10 year old having a tantrum but the more I read it; I think it's more like 2 year old...I've now downgraded my opinion.

My greatest concern, regardless the size or cost, is that if we build this and no private investors step up - where will the team come from? No one knows for certain, so I would challenge wespidel to explain how we use a stadium if businesses like Eastlink, Bell Aliant or NSP don't step up or have a leader that envisions getting a team here? What if the person who lead the charge before, decides he's not interested anymore? We need to be prepared for all potential outcomes and this is one of them - we may not be like Winnipeg that had the Thompson family on board to get the Jets back, or Jim Balsili with RIM wanting an NHL team in the Waterloo/Hamilton area.

So let's say we build you big stadium - but then we have no one to get a team...what then?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Something I did a couple of months back...
User Control Panel > Ignore List...

Amen to that.

[someone123]

Yeah, can everybody please take it easy in here, and take it easy on wespidel? If you don't like what he says then I agree, put him on ignore and do not respond to him. I don't want to have to heavily moderate the discussion.

This stadium thread is responsible for like 2/3 of the drama of this whole section.

[q12]

Originally Posted by someone123

put him on ignore and do not respond to him.

Good idea, done.

[TimB09]

As a fan of the CFL I would love to see Halifax build a 25,000 seat stadium with the means to expand to 40,000 to 50,000 for Grey Cups. Your franchise is going to want that option for when the time comes to host one. There's no doubt about that.

Now, is that realistic? I'm not sure if it is as an outsider(way out West!) but I would like to see that so a Halifax franchise could be viable enough for something like that.

Just my .02 cents!

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yeah, can everybody please take it easy in here, and take it easy on wespidel? If you don't like what he says then I agree, put him on ignore and do not respond to him. I don't want to have to heavily moderate the discussion.

This stadium thread is responsible for like 2/3 of the drama of this whole section.

While I agree with the drama, I'd like him to answer my question regarding the scenario I posted. I'm all for building any stadium over 25,000 seats, but if there is no input from the business community to get a team here (or the person who had been 'leading the charge' suddenly decides, sorry I'm done or I'm not interested) - then what? I'd like him to respond to how he'd fill a stadium that in his own numbers costs 90 to $120 million. Its a reasonable question because it is one of a multitude of outcomes...one of which is the exact opposite, that there is a line of businesses that come forward supporting a team (which answers the question for him).

Also, I think there needs to be some responsibility taken by people who post comments like "If you are so right and by the way, you don`t even pay taxes here so you have no say in the matter, then why is Halifax and the province spending" - which is an exact quote from wespidel. Comments like that serve no purpose in a forum like this other than to inflame and attempt to anger others.

So it's one thing to talk to those who have responded to his initial post - but there must be responsibility taken from him on his initial post as well.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by TimB09

As a fan of the CFL I would love to see Halifax build a 25,000 seat stadium with the means to expand to 40,000 to 50,000 for Grey Cups. Your franchise is going to want that option for when the time comes to host one. There's no doubt about that.

Now, is that realistic? I'm not sure if it is as an outsider(way out West!) but I would like to see that so a Halifax franchise could be viable enough for something like that.

Just my .02 cents!

Thank you Tim for your comment - I've been to the Edmonton stadium (commonwealth) for a couple CFL games and enjoyed it very much. The fact you had a good LRT connection and ETS increased the frequency leading up to the game and after the game was helpful as well!

[q12]

Back to the location discussion.

If Burnside/D.C. is the easiest cheapest location and possibily most accessable with restuarants and entertainment nearby, I'm wondering what would be the exact location.

Also Burnside is the largest business park north of Boston and east of Montreal with over 1500 hundred enterprises and over 15,000 employees. So it might help getting corporate partners.

Here is my guess, since this land is owned by HRM.




It would be LOTS 1150 & 1152



http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=44.707142,-63.571293&spn=0.012719,0.027874&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=6

Pizza Hut park also has an excellent set-up for concerts.

[someone123]

There was a discussion at length over location. It is kind of sad that the question has not yet been settled as far as council is concerned.

I still think Burnside is a lowest common denominator type of location. I disagree that it is well-located; it is cheap land for a reason. Restaurants and entertainment are a real stretch. I guess everybody can hop in their car after and head to one of the chain eateries in DC (45 mins later because even if the roads are wide they will be bottlenecks when everybody drives, which they will if it's in Burnside). Doesn't sound like a fun time to me.

[q12]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was a discussion at length over location. It is kind of sad that the question has not yet been settled as far as council is concerned.

I still think Burnside is a lowest common denominator type of location. I disagree that it is well-located; it is cheap land for a reason. Restaurants and entertainment are a real stretch. I guess everybody can hop in their car after and head to one of the chain eateries in DC (45 mins later because even if the roads are wide they will be bottlenecks when everybody drives, which they will if it's in Burnside). Doesn't sound like a fun time to me.

I'm not saying it is the ultimate location, however we are getting down to the wire for timelines concerning the FIFA event and I'm not seeing a lot of other options that will be easily acquired and prepared in time to get construction started.

I have to disagree about the bottlenecks. Even with the massive worker population in Burnside, traffic flows out of that area quite well in rush hour compared to in the past with these new roads. McClure Close and Shubie Dr can be extended from Dartmouth Crossing to the stadium as well.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=44.705815,-63.568203&spn=0.012719,0.027874&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=6

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was a discussion at length over location. It is kind of sad that the question has not yet been settled as far as council is concerned.

I still think Burnside is a lowest common denominator type of location. I disagree that it is well-located; it is cheap land for a reason. Restaurants and entertainment are a real stretch. I guess everybody can hop in their car after and head to one of the chain eateries in DC (45 mins later because even if the roads are wide they will be bottlenecks when everybody drives, which they will if it's in Burnside). Doesn't sound like a fun time to me.

When I think about location, I see Shannon Parking having some big pluses and minuses.

I think others have pointed out that the existing road network would require upgrading and I don't disagree with that. Crossing the railway tracks will be a critical issue to deal with. The at grade crossing of the tracks (closest to the bridge) would need to become either an under/overpass because getting traffic out of the site will need to move quickly. I suspect the local roads into the site would probably need to be at least a 4 laned boulevard (2 lanes each direction/landscaped centre) with specific turning locations to get into the stadium parking areas and loading docks. I would prefer to see this road have as few lights as possible, but with designated pedestrian crossing or one pedestrian overpass.

Where I see a huge plus for the site is also in the transportation access, or I should say the future. access There have already been discussions about high speed ferry from Bedford and if a stadium was combined with a comprehensive development of the site , you could also add (along the shore edge) mixed use development with a boardwalk. This would then draw restaurants and pubs to locate here, not just for residents but for events. I suspect that would allow the facility to be used to encourage concerts more because then you'd get a very strong commercial element. The only problem will be the bars in downtown may cry bloody murder. But, if you develop with SP a high speed ferry (which could link with downtown Halifax and Bedford with seperate ferry service) - then you give people options on how to enjoy an event: Go directly to the event and eat at home; eat out in local places in Bedford/Dartmouth/Halifax DT and then go to the event or go to the event and enjoy the local pubs/restaurants. There are other combos but you get the idea. Then you can also use the stadium parking on the off times (typical weekday 9 to 5) as a park and ride facility which can then feed into the high speed ferry system and also allow the SP site to be developed as a transit oriented community.

One of the failings (in my mind) with the commonwealth design was that the residential was all focused on the Wallace Heights area. I thought it was a huge failure to keep all the greenspace along the shore line because if you made that mixed use development with a boardwalk, it would be far more interesting, create a regional type of pathway and provide more commercial and residential opportunity for the area. Because to me; if you could put 5 to 10,000 people in SP next to the stadium you've created a market right next door. Chances are you'll get a good percentage wanting to attend events; which makes it easier to fill and require no transportation be provided. Think about it: Even if you only got 25% of a population of 10,000 (2,500) - you now only need to sell tickets to 22,500 people from elsewhere in the city.

The other plus for SP in my mind was that for major transit terminals like Mumford, Lacewood, Portland Hills, Bridge Terminal and Cobequid - you had major expressways to use to get there. So you could incorporate transit as a viable option to get to the stadium much easier and with the commonwealth plan; there was bus bays included in the design. I'd want to see something like that included, no matter what size of stadium built.

This format could also be applied to Dartmouth Crossing to a certain extent and perhaps part of Burnside as well. Regardless of where the stadium locates, commercial will more than likely locate close by. The only question would be is there buildings near by that can provide the space or would new buildings be required.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by someone123

You are clearly speaking from the perspective of somebody who markets tickets for events and wants to charge a high price. From the perspective of the spectators, who are the ones footing the bills for these venues, it is best to have a few empty seats. If there are empty seats then we know that people who want to attend can attend (assuming the tickets are cheap enough -- hopefully the new stadium will have a variety of affordable events and some free events). If a show quickly sells out then there are almost certainly disappointed would-be event goers who nevertheless still paid for the venue with their tax money. Too bad for them I guess!

Yes. Too bad for them. I'm telling you Halifax is known as a city that promoters avoid in part because tendency to leave ticket purchases to the last minute means promoters cannot gauge "is this sinking, or swimming?" Most other cities do not have this issue, we are pretty unique in that regard.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Empire

In all fairness the Metro Centre is a dump. People are leary of buying tickets after an event has been on sale for a while because they might get stuck in the no sightline upper bowl. The upper bowl was sacrificed for sky box revenue. All of the seats with a compromsed view should be a different colour and go for $5 a pop.

A legacy of Fred MacGillvary... no revenue from skyboxes goes to promoters, and it cut the saleable seating capacity. So bad. I agree, those seats should be a different colour, or torn out, or something.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

WayeMason Waye Mason
@
@patricetheace I'd rather build a bunch of fields and rec centres than the stadium... expensive for limited use.
11 Aug

WayeMason Waye Mason
@
@chefraybear I think so, wish Dexter had said so before HRM went to spend money on phase 2
11 Aug

http://twitter.com/#!/WayeMason

I'll agree on the second one to a certain extent. It will be a waste of money if all these studies and phases are charged to the tax payer for no gain. If the province and Feds don't chip in then it's up to a huge private purchaser. However I believe we have a strong case here. It can't be compared to Quebec's arena. The NHL expects more fans and way more pay than the CFL does.

I would rather get our rec centre system up to par first, before a stadium. I have been clear regarding this, repeating it whenever appropriate.

I think it is irresponsible to build another large facility when not dealing with the updates, renovations and deferred maintenance and Sackville Arena, Cole Harbour Place, Forum, and Sportsplex.

That said, if we are building one, I am going to be involved in that discussion, too.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I would rather get our rec centre system up to par first, before a stadium. I have been clear regarding this, repeating it whenever appropriate.

I think it is irresponsible to build another large facility when not dealing with the updates, renovations and deferred maintenance and Sackville Arena, Cole Harbour Place, Forum, and Sportsplex.

That said, if we are building one, I am going to be involved in that discussion, too.

I see that as reasonable; now that I understand the context. I wonder sometimes if it would be worth HRM council looking at how Calgary council deals with infrastructure? We have a list (granted it constantly expands), but it outlines all the recreation facilities that are nedded (which a stadium would fall into). Then they fund as the list outlines based on priority; although council has the authority to move things up or down the list.

But regardless of the list - council is the final deciding point for what gets built. It's important to remember that. If I look back on the council before the one we have now (before Nenshi), the list had a lot of stuff that had a high priority. But the decision was made to put all the eggs into the West LRT. So that delayed a lot of stuff. Now with the Nenshi council; the tunnel has taken priority and they've had to really work to get the money just for the tunnel.

Either way...regardless of how they determine what is a priority, council can change it's mind. I've seen projects approved by one council and then the next council change their minds because they had different priorities. It happens...but that's their call.

[someone123]

Is Halifax actually that bad for rec centres? The Sackville Arena is bad? What about the brand new quadruple rink built about a 15 minute drive away? Or, if you prefer swimming, you can drive another 5 minutes and go to the brand new swimming pool facility.

A big part of the issue seems to be that people are not willing to get on the bus or drive 15+ minutes to get to a skating surface or swimming pool. An even bigger part seems to be that every councillor wants to bring home the bacon to make voters happy -- rec/community centres are a great way to do this.

Meanwhile there is nothing remotely resembling a real stadium in the entire region.

[Waye Mason]

double post

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by someone123

Is Halifax actually that bad for rec centres? The Sackville Arena is bad? What about the brand new quadruple rink built about a 15 minute drive away? Or, if you prefer swimming, you can drive another 5 minutes and go to the brand new swimming pool facility.

A big part of the issue seems to be that people are not willing to get on the bus or drive 15+ minutes to get to a skating surface or swimming pool. An even bigger part seems to be that every councillor wants to bring home the bacon to make voters happy -- rec/community centres are a great way to do this.

Meanwhile there is nothing remotely resembling a real stadium in the entire region.

There is a defined need to invest about $60-70 million between those four sites alone, and those investments are 10-15 years later than they should have been. Then you have the need for smaller centres/parks/fields in new communities/suburbs.