ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Zanarkand A East]

Bottleneck Threatens Atlanta's Rail Plans

~~~

Originally Posted by Pompuss

I think if the city can host the goddamn Olympics by itself ...

Great start!

Originally Posted by Pompuss

... it can handle ... the stupid world cup.

Poor finish

[Pompuss]

well I'm sorry I just ain't a soccer fan.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

not everyone believed atlanta did a good job with the olympics
and i think alot of places in the country think we earned it
through bribes
so its not a given but since we do have the georgia dome it
gives us a leg up on alot of other sites

How does having the Georgia Dome give you a leg up on other cities?

[Pessimistic Observer]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

How does having the Georgia Dome give you a leg up on other cities?

its been used for world class soccer matches before
and it holds 70k indoors
only dallas and new orleans have more capacity in there domes

[sevensixtwo]

Originally Posted by BlindFatSnake

Arthur Blank is a gangsta -and gangstas love being in the city - not in the burbs...

word

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

its been used for world class soccer matches before
and it holds 70k indoors
only dallas and new orleans have more capacity in there domes

Chicago was one of the host cities in the World Cup in 1994 but are not a host city for 2018/2022.

[sevensixtwo]

Originally Posted by trainiac

I just assumed it was this one

http://www.crbrealty.com/projects.php

say what?!?!?!?!

[sevensixtwo]

Is there really a big multi-use development going in on Ptree right now? Where are our learned elders? This seems too good to be true.

[Zanarkand A East]

Transit patchwork under fire

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

its been used for world class soccer matches before
and it holds 70k indoors
only dallas and new orleans have more capacity in there domes

I think it's typically been used for exhibition type events. It really isn't an optimal venue based on FIFA's criteria and really isn't so great for soccer spectating. In this case, bigger isn't particularly better.

[Zanarkand A East]

Atlanta's Dewberry buys former BellSouth headquarters

[Pessimistic Observer]

http://www.ajc.com/business/carter-says-he-will-611190.html
streets of buckhead phase1 project to be downsized
not sure if i should be sad about that

[micropundit]

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

http://www.ajc.com/business/carter-says-he-will-611190.html
streets of buckhead phase1 project to be downsized
not sure if i should be sad about that

After the umpteenth "announcement", my skepticism continues to grow. Maybe the local media can hold a contest between Ben Carter(SOB) and John Dewberry(10th & Peach) to see will be the first to ever get their project out of the ground.

[ClaySkyHigh]

Does anyone know what they are doing to the TBS tower @ 10th & W. Peachtree / Spring st. ? I have noticed that it is getting shorter !! Are they taking it down?

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by ClaySkyHigh

Does anyone know what they are doing to the TBS tower @ 10th & W. Peachtree / Spring st. ? I have noticed that it is getting shorter !! Are they taking it down?

Yeah I noticed that today too, heres a picture I took

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43093207@N07/4980124509/

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by delarosa

In this case, bigger isn't particularly better.

The GA Dome is actually the fifth smallest of the 21 venues in the US bid.

Originally Posted by pessimisticobserver

only dallas and new orleans have more capacity in there domes.

Houston and Phoenix also have higher-capacity domed stadiums than Atlanta (when in soccer-mode).
Dallas (Arlington), Houston, and Phoenix are all included in the US bid. New Orleans is not.

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by shivtim

The GA Dome is actually the fifth smallest of the 21 venues in the US bid.

I don't recall if this is the case. When I last looked at the bid cities, think the GA Dome was about the median of the group of 18 and a little below average, skewed upwardly by the big 3.

Regardless, to be clear, my point was firstly about FIFA criteria and secondly about quality of soccer spectating. For example, average attendance for South Africa was in the mid 50's, about half of the German stadia had fewer than 50,000 seats and crowds averaging about those in South Africa, and so on. Of course, those additional seats do represent some additional revenue, but in the scheme of: 1. less than total sellouts (which is often the case and would undoubtedly be the case here), 2. box office revenue share with the host/LOC (conversely, the LOC has more incentive for larger stadia), 3. the percentage of additional revenue those seats represent compared to: a. total revenue (broadcast rights, sponsorships, etc.) and b. perception (of sold out venues) and 4. the relative importance of a number of other factors (host/LOC $ guarantees, infrastructure, etc), the size of a stadium (within reasonable bounds...clearly many of the purpose-built MLS stadia are insufficient) is not too compelling.

Regarding live spectating, some of the differences are definitely due to configuration/purpose and the differences in American football vs. soccer pitch/seating configurations, but, even holding other factors equal, there's most definitely a qualitative difference in attending say an 75% sold soccer match in the GA dome vs. a nearly sold out match in Hamburg stadium.

[mayhem]

Anyone know anything about the Hard Rock Hotel? They area clearing out the tenants on the block. I believe the car wash is the only one remaining.

[shivtim]

There's a nice list on wiki of the venues and capacity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_2018_and_2022_FIFA_World_Cup_bid#Candidate_venues

I'm not sure about the FIFA criteria and how well the GA Dome fits those criteria, but it has hosted several high profile soccer events before, including English Premier League games, international friendlies, and the world football challenge. I would guess that any FIFA issues with the GA Dome would also apply to most other American stadiums that were built specifically for American football.

Originally Posted by delarosa

1. less than total sellouts (which is often the case and would undoubtedly be the case here), 2. box office revenue share with the host/LOC (conversely, the LOC has more incentive for larger stadia), 3. the percentage of additional revenue those seats represent compared to: a. total revenue (broadcast rights, sponsorships, etc.) and b. perception (of sold out venues) and 4. the relative importance of a number of other factors (host/LOC $ guarantees, infrastructure, etc), the size of a stadium (within reasonable bounds...clearly many of the purpose-built MLS stadia are insufficient) is not too compelling.

I have to respectfully completely disagree with all of your capacity and economics points. The 1994 World Cup is still by far the highest attended and highest grossing World Cup, despite the recent expansion in number of teams that go to the Cup. The total attendance in the US was 3,587,538, which averages out to 68,991 per match. Most of the games were sellouts. The final game had more than 94,000 in attendance. Estimates show that a 2022 US World Cup would likely have an attendance greater than 5,000,000.

Not only would the huge attendance help the bottom-line of a US World Cup, but advertising/marketing/broadcast rights of a US hosted cup are higher than they would be in any other country. Nice opinion article on that from foxsoccer.com's senior soccer writer here: "Because this past World Cup failed to meet financial expectations, the United States -- which no one doubts can sell out every World Cup game -- suddenly looks like an even more attractive option."

A US World Cup is an absolute cash-cow for both FIFA and all of the US host cities. Now, I'm not suggesting that the US should host the World Cup because of this, but it doesn't hurt, and of course I'm happy that Atlanta could host multiple games and serve as the media hub for the World Cup.

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by shivtim

There's a nice list on wiki of the venues and capacity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_2018_and_2022_FIFA_World_Cup_bid#Candidate_venues

After posting last, I went back and checked the seating capacity info I'd seen. What the bid cmte's site lists as seating capacity appears to be different than what's on Wikipedia. Which is right? *shrug* probably splitting hairs.

I have to respectfully completely disagree with all of your capacity and economics points.

I'm not sure I disagree with the points you made besides perhaps what the actual attendance might be, keeping in mind that reported attendance is often a different thing from actual attendance and that of course bid committee's always paint optimistic pictures of ticket sales (I speak from experience of direct and indirect involvement with bid and local organizing cmte's as well as int'l sport federations...believe me, explicit conversations re: bumping up attendance figures happen, etc.). But in any case, I'm also not sure it's at odds with the points I was attempting to make, which is basically that how big the stadia are isn't as an important factor in the scheme of things (eg. infrastructure, financial incentives, etc.) from a bid selection POV and can in fact be a bit of a negative from a spectator's POV. It's also important to note that the criteria used for an acceptable world championship/cup venue is going to be much more stringent than that for promo/exhibition. That said, Atlanta is an appealing option in some respects even despite a very subpar soccer venue (eg. besides some of the aforementioned generic football reconfig suboptima, also think indoor+grass requirements+additional expense/complexity).

That FIFA wants the World Cup in the US again...but of course! However, this has much more to do with (foremost) the continued development of a market here, organizational capability, $ guarantees and so on than it does the revenue represented by those additional ticket sales, and likewise from the organizing cmte's POV, a number of other factors are going to have more significant impact on the choice of respective cities/venues.

So like I said, if I'm reading you correctly, think we're in agreement wrt benefits, feasibility and likelihood.