Edmonton Construction 9 (2008-08) - Page 358

CMD UW · #**7141** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 5:49 AM**

Yes, there is. In the downtown, Icon Tower 1, 30-storeys, was recently completed and is currently being occupied. Tower 2, 35-storeys, should be completed by the spring 2010. Quest, 22-storeys, is currently under construction and should also be ready for occupancy by the late winter / spring 2010.

In Oliver, Serenity, 12-storeys, is almost completed and should be ready for occupancy by the fall. Uptown, 17-storeys, was recently completed and is currently being occupied. Altavista Tower 2, 12-storeys, is also close to being completed and should be ready for occupancy by the fall. I think that's it for high rises in the downtown / Oliver area.

I don't think people should be surprised about the lack of new condo construction given how the economy seized up in November. It only recently has started to show signs of recovery and is no different than what is happening in other major centres. There are few to none new starts given the current state of the real estate market and unknown risks. Financing is still difficult and there are a number of projects where people have walked away from deposits in which the developer now has to re-sell.

Anyways, if we look ahead, there are a number of porjects that are approved and ready to go; The Valleyview, Aurora, Raintree, Abbey Lane's 26-storey on 104 Street, Rossdale Green.

ue · #**7142** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 5:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

It's great news that Edmonton grew by 30,000 in the last year alone but I have to ask........why so little condo construction downtown. According to this site right now there are only 7 highrises underconstruction in the whole city. Is none of this gain happening downtown?
I know, I know high rises don't neccessaily correlate to population growth but..... Is there a lot of low rises going on downtown like 3 story apts/condos, row houses etc. I really hope so because downtown Edmonton and downtown parking lots seem to be one in the same. Is there a lot of downtown infil going on downtown to fill in those gaps?

Unfortunately a lot of that growth has been suburban. We had a decent amount of low rises under construction in the North Edge and around 104 Ave and 112 St though. There has been a transformation on 104st. Much of the condos from the boom like Uptown, Serenity, and ICON are wrapping up. We had a lot of approved material though, and I'm sure if the boom lasted a little longer, we would have seen a lot more. We really only saw quality projects at the end of the boom. I suspect the 2010s will be much better.

rapid_business · #**7143** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 6:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg_a

Well, its the nature of the medium.... Anyone heard anything about the Urbia project? Has it been approved by the city?

Not sure what you are talking about....There is no 'project' to approve. Just some rough renderings that showed general intent of massing or size of development they were throwing around 7 months ago. On a scale of 1 to 10 of a project getting ready to move dirt, they are at a 0.

Mark my words, it will be some time before they get anything compiled here. And even then, I think it will be them taking it all the way to get their DC2 approval, and then trying to flip the project. (a la 'Oliver')

Coldrsx · #**7144** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 3:16 PM**

Interesting note... the 10830 Intact building is being touted as 'midtown' for its new shops.

Kevin_foster · #**7145** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 3:22 PM**

Given the circumstances of our downtown and how it has transformed over the past 3 years; I think we're doing quite well.

Putting 75 stories of living space smack dab in the CBD was a massive risk taken by Langham properties; and I believe they have shown up all other developers that it can be done, and done well. (although we could argue about what "well" means)

One thing I took note of with the Icon towers is they created alot of buzz around town (amongst the people who don't typically follow residential construction) - simply by their presence. Even though WE might not think it's a 10/10 design - it's something original for edmonton (high rise right downtown) and people took note.

Anyways, I think once the market becomes viable, we'll see more activity downtown - with higher structures than what we currently see in Oliver/etc.

240glt · #**7146** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 3:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMD UW

Yes, there is. In the downtown, Icon Tower 1, 30-storeys, was recently completed and is currently being occupied. Tower 2, 35-storeys, should be completed by the spring 2010. Quest, 22-storeys, is currently under construction and should also be ready for occupancy by the late winter / spring 2010.

In Oliver, Serenity, 12-storeys, is almost completed and should be ready for occupancy by the fall. Uptown, 17-storeys, was recently completed and is currently being occupied. Altavista Tower 2, 12-storeys, is also close to being completed and should be ready for occupancy by the fall. I think that's it for high rises in the downtown / Oliver area.

I don't think people should be surprised about the lack of new condo construction given how the economy seized up in November. It only recently has started to show signs of recovery and is no different than what is happening in other major centres. There are few to none new starts given the current state of the real estate market and unknown risks. Financing is still difficult and there are a number of projects where people have walked away from deposits in which the developer now has to re-sell.

Anyways, if we look ahead, there are a number of porjects that are approved and ready to go; The Valleyview, Aurora, Raintree, Abbey Lane's 26-storey on 104 Street, Rossdale Green.

You forgot the Meridian.

Lots in the pipeline. I hope that we see a few of these new projects spring up later this year or early next year.

Coldrsx · #**7147** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 3:27 PM**

^yes, but given the givens... we are still playing significant catchup relatively speaking. A city of almost 1.1 million with only around 1.2% of its population living downtown?

downtown needs to have almost double that to have enough critical mass to spawn a feeling of community, density, excitement.

240glt · #**7148** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 3:30 PM**

Well, almost all the highrise construction has (or is) happening in the DT area. As for the population, I guess more people just need a reason to live there. DT has the same stigma that my 'hood does.. It's tough to shake old perceptions.

Coldrsx · #**7149** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt

Well, almost all the highrise construction has (or is) happening in the DT area. As for the population, I guess more people just need a reason to live there. DT has the same stigma that my 'hood does.. It's tough to shake old perceptions.

that it is, that it is...

this weekend marshaling it came out i lived downtown and the other 4 people (all 40-60yrs old) all had this look of "why" on their face. I had questions from them about how hard it is to park, how expensive everything is, how unsafe they feel, and how there is not much there to do.

I tried to give a semi-objective learning session and think i saw some light but many people still see the downtown as the above. We need to get enough critical mass that we draw people downtown not to live but to shop and play and remind them at that time how cool it would be to also live there.

acadams · #**7150** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

that it is, that it is...

this weekend marshaling it came out i lived downtown and the other 4 people (all 40-60yrs old) all had this look of "why" on their face. I had questions from them about how hard it is to park, how expensive everything is, how unsafe they feel, and how there is not much there to do.

I tried to give a semi-objective learning session and think i saw some light but many people still see the downtown as the above. We need to get enough critical mass that we draw people downtown not to live but to shop and play and remind them at that time how cool it would be to also live there.

honestly just trying to see your view here not bashing anything..say I'm going out for dinner or shopping..why would I rather go downtown and either have to pay for parking or take transit or something..when I could go to a restaurant/shop in any other area of the city (except for maybe whyte ave area) and have access to thousands of square meters of free surface parking?

Coldrsx · #**7151** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 4:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acadams

honestly just trying to see your view here not bashing anything..say I'm going out for dinner or shopping..why would I rather go downtown and either have to pay for parking or take transit or something..when I could go to a restaurant/shop in any other area of the city (except for maybe whyte ave area) and have access to thousands of square meters of free surface parking?

which is a question many many people ask right now.

It depends obviously and while the allure of red lobster on gateway is high, the idea of going somewhere a little different without breaking the bank is very much there.

There are many restaurants downtown that are in the $15-30 range (typical dinner rates) with free metered parking after 6pm.

Pair it with a nice stroll around the leg or valley after, take in a show, see a play, or just sit in churchill or city hall and watch the city move a little.

I just do not see any kind of value in going to a stand alone restaurant in the middle of nowhere with little to do after.

perhaps i am wrong

ps. 23000th post

Kevin_foster · #**7152** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

ps. 23000th post

Congrats Cold!

Again, I will reiterate we need developers like Langham to take risks by building downtown.

Oliver, Railtown and West downtown are all relatively safe investments (as far as attracting people - not necessarily real estate/value wise..)

West of CBD is pretty vibrant.

Aside from the McLeod Building... there isn't much in East Jasper.

How awesome would it be to live across the street from Sir Winston, the art gallery, the library, city center shops & pubs, city hall, etc. etc.

Let's build the quarters!!! But let's start by building high density developments smack dab in the center.

Coldrsx · #**7153** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 4:21 PM**

^i would like us to focus on the warehouse district as priority 1. Get Norquest some funding, get healy out, put some more 4-6 storey infill along with 5 new quest sized towers. Then downtown would be something.

ue · #**7154** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 4:45 PM**

I think the thing is we're still in such early stages of urban revitalization that we can pretty much improve anywhere. Even Whyte Avenue, which is already pretty nice area, there is still room for improvement. So much potential.

I think the Warehouse District will develop pretty nicely into the next decade. With the first runway closing it will remove height limits for most of the area. It will be more desirable for developers to develop on 107 or 108 St rather than 103 or 102 St. (that can be a good thing or a bad thing). The skyline could take a shift west. So no worries there.

But I still hope we develop the Quarters - or start, at the same time.

Coldrsx · #**7155** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 4:53 PM**

"I think the Warehouse District will develop pretty nicely into the next decade."

i told myself that in 1999

today is 2009

🞵🞵🞵

Kevin_foster · #**7156** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 5:00 PM**

^ "it's the economy, stupid"

240glt · #**7157** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

i told myself that in 1999

Man, you must have been wearing some very rose colored glasses in 1999, I was here, downtown in july of that year & saw absolutely no signs of life or rejuvination in the core, it was dirty and desolate & gave me an awful impression of the city. Then vs. now is night & day.

Coldrsx · #**7158** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 5:30 PM**

^sure but you could feel Edmonton was about to bounce back, and it has, but that area has so far to go and is literally a hole in the downtown.

ue · #**7159** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 5:38 PM**

I guess no one really ever knows. But I'm guessing the Warehouse District, along with areas like Rossdale, the Quarters, Strathearn, and VFTC will come out nicely by 2020, or at least be partially underway. We were in early stages, and still are, but we'll be a step up in the coming decade, so things will be better, and I think that urban will be a priority like suburb has been. And also like 240 said, there wasn't too much revitalization going on then. And Cold is also right that we were about to bounce back, but we don't bounce back overnight. It was only at the end of the boom that we got great projects proposed. If the boom would have lasted a little longer, a lot more would have been done.

240glt · #**7160** Posted **Jul 28, 2009, 5:38 PM**

^^ Well maybe it was just because I was only here for a few days during that first trip to Edmonton but I felt no 'bounce' at all... I felt it was an unappealing city and at the time would never have wanted to live here.

When I moved here from Cal. in '04 the city had changed quite a bit, and now in 2009 the change continues. It would be nice to see some of the warehouse areas filled in, but the owners of the properties currently used as parking lots don't seem interested in developing.