HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2561  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2009, 6:37 AM
JordanL JordanL is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65MAX View Post
Um, actually, I don't use the east side big pipe, only the west side. So I shouldn't have to pay for the one I don't use. Is that your argument?

I also don't have kids and don't use the schools, so my property taxes shouldn't go to pay for those either, correct?

Personally, I rarely use mass transit, but I'm willing to pay for it because I know it makes the city I live in a better place to live for EVERYONE. I'm frankly not that selfish as to say that I won't pay for schools or transit or sewers or parks that I don't use.
There's plenty of taxpayers that make the same exact arguments for funding schools...

I'm not saying they're right, I'm saying that their opinion doesn't become less valid because you disagree and disagree... they have as much of a say with their tax dollars as we do. Portland's been pretty good about seeing the "greater good" of certain kinds of public spending... I was simply saying the argument against. Just because you don't like the argument doesn't mean it wouldn't be made (and listened to).

I think the answer has been given though: bundle road work with transit improvements.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2562  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2009, 5:55 PM
Okstate's Avatar
Okstate Okstate is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by RED_PDXer View Post
It would cost 1/10th that if we just disallowed auto traffic from that area. Way cheaper.
I cannot cite the source b/c I don't remember where to find it but I remember hearing that Yamhill/Morrison were intentionally intended to allow autos as well as light rail based on precedent studies from other cities. They found that light rail running through other downtowns exclusively had a negative impact on vitality. However, with Portland being so established maybe taking auto out of that area would be a different story now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2563  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 4:06 AM
Okstate's Avatar
Okstate Okstate is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,367
New trains are up & running at least as of today!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2564  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 4:23 AM
RED_PDXer RED_PDXer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanL View Post
Maybe you haven't been paying attention... real estate in the entire country was almost 100% overvalued...
That's a huge exaggeration of the facts. "Value" is an economic term that represents market demand for a particular good. Some real estate markets are overvalued, others are more in line with the marketplace. At any given point in time, some type of real estate market is "overvalued" for some reason or another. The market always corrects itself in 1-3 years depending on the type of consumer.. Home sales in the western 16 states were up last month over last year. Given the state of the economy we're in, that suggests that market prices are matching demand. Most commercial real estate is not overvalued much, if at all, because commercial real estate buyers are a much more "informed" consumer and their purchase prices reflect current market rents.

I understand we can make whatever kinda statement we want on here, but lets try to keep the exaggerations modest, at most..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2565  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 4:27 AM
JordanL JordanL is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RED_PDXer View Post
That's a huge exaggeration of the facts. "Value" is an economic term that represents market demand for a particular good. Some real estate markets are overvalued, others are more in line with the marketplace. At any given point in time, some type of real estate market is "overvalued" for some reason or another. The market always corrects itself in 1-3 years depending on the type of consumer.. Home sales in the western 16 states were up last month over last year. Given the state of the economy we're in, that suggests that market prices are matching demand. Most commercial real estate is not overvalued much, if at all, because commercial real estate buyers are a much more "informed" consumer and their purchase prices reflect current market rents.

I understand we can make whatever kinda statement we want on here, but lets try to keep the exaggerations modest, at most..
It's more than that though. People do not equal demand, people who can afford to buy equal demand.

After this we're going to see a huge increase in loaning standards which is going to keep more people renting a less people buying, lowing demand.

These same people won't be able to afford the astronomical rent we see in the inner city, leaving us with further devaluation or sprawl. Your choice.

When the federal government proposed refinancing loans at 4.5%, Portland was cited as the ONLY market in the entire US where it would still be too expensive to buy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2566  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 4:54 AM
RED_PDXer RED_PDXer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okstate View Post
I cannot cite the source b/c I don't remember where to find it but I remember hearing that Yamhill/Morrison were intentionally intended to allow autos as well as light rail based on precedent studies from other cities. They found that light rail running through other downtowns exclusively had a negative impact on vitality. However, with Portland being so established maybe taking auto out of that area would be a different story now.
I think you're referring to the effect of restricting auto traffic from retail streets. No auto traffic (and no street parking) prevents retail spaces from reaching a wider consumer market. This is the logic behind allowing one full auto lane throughout the entire length of the Transit Mall. However.. there's no retail in front of the Rose Quarter, which is the specific area I'm referring to. I don't believe removing auto traffic would negatively affect the sole business there - the Rose Garden Arena.. Eventually, I would like to see the redevelopment of the dead space between the Rose Garden Arena and the river with high-rises and pedestrian streets over the light rail interchange - we're nowhere close to land values making that a reality though..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2567  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 7:29 AM
Okstate's Avatar
Okstate Okstate is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by RED_PDXer View Post
However.. there's no retail in front of the Rose Quarter, which is the specific area I'm referring to.
Gotcha.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2568  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 4:27 PM
digme digme is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 51
Its obviously hard to compare one street to another (and one city to another), but the most "vital" street in Madison, WI has to be State St. It is limited to "city buses, Fire apparatus, police cars, bicycles, delivery vehicles, and pedestrian traffic."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Street_(Madison)

There are lots of examples of thriving pedestrian malls, and many that didn't make it either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_mall

I think the Transit Mall could be a great option. Buses and Light Rail get the right side of the street, bikes get the left side.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2569  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2009, 4:30 PM
pdxman's Avatar
pdxman pdxman is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,037
Looks like they are testing the trains on part of the new mall this morning. There was a new MAX train on the tracks by the greyhound bus depot with lots of guys in yellow jackets around the area. The train looked pretty damn —! Wasn't able to take a picture because I was on the bus but if someone wants to get down there today to get pics I'm sure we'd all appreciate it
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2570  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2009, 4:51 PM
MR. Cosmopolitan's Avatar
MR. Cosmopolitan MR. Cosmopolitan is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeplayer19 View Post
ban cars from downtown
Hey that's a very good idea for the future, we could allow access only for bus in some parts of downtown and other transform them into completely vehicle free streets and cars would only be allowed on major avenues, looking at it in a more realistic way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2571  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2009, 6:22 PM
bvpcvm bvpcvm is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. Cosmopolitan View Post
Hey that's a very good idea for the future, we could allow access only for bus in some parts of downtown and other transform them into completely vehicle free streets and cars would only be allowed on major avenues, looking at it in a more realistic way.
as it happens, the Times has a blog discussion (including our dear randall o'toole, unfortunately) about this very thing in nyc this morning: http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/pedestrian-malls-back-to-the-future/. i would imagine that here in portland the business community would be up in arms over such a thing. otoh, i could imagine it possibly working in a couple small locations - for example, park and 9th on both sides of pb5.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2572  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2009, 9:06 PM
Sekkle's Avatar
Sekkle Sekkle is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,276
Quote:
New MAX train greeted like rock star on Portland Mall
by Joseph Rose, The Oregonian
Saturday February 28, 2009, 10:43 AM

If MAX trains could be rock stars, the sleek and polished machine hissing south on Fifth Avenue this morning was U2.

It was as if people hadn't seen a light rail train before.

Cameras drawn, a mob of TriMet engineers, MAX operators and train buffs excitedly followed the new "Type 4" train at it made the first official practice run on downtown Portland's transit mall. A few couldn't help yelping with excitement: "Sweet!" "Looks good!" "Rolling!"

Even a couple surprised motorists and bicyclists braked to snap phone-cam photos of the train, which features a aerodynamic snub-nosed design that cuts a more 21st-century shape than the boxier old-school MAX trains. People walking out of storefronts and high rises stopped in their tracks to watch the future of light rail approaching with a white-hot headlight.

And locomotive fans went loco.

"One of the things that attracted me to Portland was its trains," said Brian Kindle, 21, a photographer and Southern California transplant who showed up downtown to watch TriMet train No. 98 make its debut. "This one's pretty cool."

Check out video and additional photos of the run at the Hard Drive commuting blog. Also, here's a handy-dandy interactive graphic, showing how traffic is expected to flow for trains, buses, cars and bicycles.

Also, new traffic rules go into effect along the mall on Monday.

Two years after construction began on the $220 million transit mall, Roger Andreassen, the MAX Green Line's project manager, said it was a relief.

Just a relief? Actually, he was trying to be cool. Andreassen was almost giddy, snapping photos and grinning from under his moustache as he jogged along with the train.

As it moved past City Hall toward Portland State University, someone noticed that the digital display in the front window read, "Gresham."

"Hey, Gary," an engineer shouted at the driver from the sidewalk, "can you change that to something on the Green Line, maybe PSU?"

Andreassen, who still has a heavy Norwegian accent years after he went to work for TriMet, chuckled. "There are some little things we're working out," he said.

The purpose of the 7:30 a.m.-to-1:30 p.m. run, he said, was to test everything from the power lines and tracks to signals and platform alignment. "Everything looks good so far," Andreassen said.

Traveling a little faster than walking speed, the train opened its doors at every stop, as if allowing ghost passengers to step off and board. Each time, the driver sounded a bell before starting up again.

The 22 new trains, which will run from the Portland State University to the Clackamas Town Center via the Interstate 205 section of the Green Line starting in September, are a slight variation of the Siemens "S70" light rail vehicles currently in operation in Houston, San Diego and Paris.

At roughly 191 feet, they're about seven feet longer than our older MAX vehicles. Each car has only one operator cab, so you'll always see two cars coupled together, TriMet said. Also, the "open" floor plan leaves more room for riders.

Some 6,000 pounds lighter, they're also they don't need as much electricity to operate, TriMet said.

Currently, TriMet plans to start regular test runs on the mall in May. But, Andreassen said, "it might be a little sooner."

Kindle said he plans to move next to the Green Line's I-205 tracks before September. Far from a potential nuisance, trains outside his home is a quality-of-life perk, much like a good park across the street, he said.

He praised the Type 4 trains for their state-of-the art design and what appears to be a smart new interior design.

Kindle said there's a lot to like about trains: The sound, the engineering, the history, the blur of scenery, the way different trains rock when they roll.

"I got my interest in trains from my dad," he said. "I've always had it. Frankly, I don't ever want to drive."

-- Joseph Rose; [email protected]
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/new_max_train_greeted_like_a_r.html

Ive seen several of these on test runs behind my house. Many of them have a blue dot (LED lights) and say "Special" (same as "Not in Service" I guess) but I have seen some with yellow LEDs that say "Expo Center," and one with green that said "6th Ave/PSU" or something like that. Still haven't seen any with passengers, though, so I'm still wondering when they'll go into service.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2573  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2009, 11:39 PM
2oh1's Avatar
2oh1 2oh1 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,523
I saw one of these downtown recently - maybe last weekend? I really like the bright LED that tells which color the MAX is. It's much easier to spot from a distance than the current color sign. And, yeah, the trains look great! It's such a shame they'll get mucked up with advertising - but the bills have to be paid.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2574  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 3:59 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by bvpcvm View Post
as it happens, the Times has a blog discussion (including our dear randall o'toole, unfortunately) about this very thing in nyc this morning: http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/pedestrian-malls-back-to-the-future/. i would imagine that here in portland the business community would be up in arms over such a thing. otoh, i could imagine it possibly working in a couple small locations - for example, park and 9th on both sides of pb5.
The Park Blocks near PSU would be prime candidates for going ped-only (most already are). I remember reading something about turning a few of them into green streets recently, forgot the source tho.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2575  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 4:47 AM
RED_PDXer RED_PDXer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 823
The quote that sticks out from that article is "traveling a little faster than walking speed..." LOL

Oh Portland.. why maketh your transit so slow?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2576  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 5:08 AM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,587
^From my understanding the "traveling a little faster than walking speed" was for the testing they were doing, not the projected speed of the train when the line is completed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2577  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 9:06 AM
JordanL JordanL is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
^From my understanding the "traveling a little faster than walking speed" was for the testing they were doing, not the projected speed of the train when the line is completed.
The Max travels maybe twice as fast as walking speed downtown... and that's mostly because of lights slowing down pedestrians...

The streetcar even slower...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2578  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 12:12 PM
MR. Cosmopolitan's Avatar
MR. Cosmopolitan MR. Cosmopolitan is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. Cosmopolitan View Post
I wonder when would Portland's downtown be capable to sustain its own subway network.
I didn't ment tunneling light rail, I ment a subway system that would be just for downtwn Portland; I think were still very far away from that, but I don't know how much really.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2579  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 2:15 PM
JordanL JordanL is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. Cosmopolitan View Post
I didn't ment tunneling light rail, I ment a subway system that would be just for downtwn Portland; I think were still very far away from that, but I don't know how much really.
???

Who in their right minds would throw billions of dollars on a multi-year project that would provide 2.5 sq km of space with a subway that does the same thing the streetcar does?

Unless you mean the "greater downtown", (basically the space between the river and the west hills, south of the St Johns bridge and north of the Sellwood bridge), in which case... why not just extend the streetcar?

The primary purpose of any subway HAS to be bringing people from the suburbs into the city...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2580  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2009, 7:30 PM
NJD's Avatar
NJD NJD is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 632
Quote:
The primary purpose of any subway HAS to be bringing people from the suburbs into the city...
one could argue that statement.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.