Portland Transit | TriMet/Mass Transit News

[65MAX]

^^^^
No, it's not an issue at all. The big pipe is deep enough at RQ that the subway would easily go over it, but still be deep enough to go under the Willamette, which is about 40-45 feet deep there.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

I personally think that Trimet will just let the MAX get super crowded, as nobody here in Portland wants to spend serious bucks on big-ticket items.

It's already super crowded at rush hour. And speaking of Big Pipe, didn't the two Big Pipes cost over a billion dollars EACH? And the CRC will be how much? Of course nobody WANTS to spend that kind of money, but if it becomes a necessity (and a subway will become a necessity sooner than later), the funds will have to be found somewhere.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

You mean to tell me SLC is running 4-car trains already?

Meanwhile, we're limited to 2-car trains, and a severely restricted capacity as a result. And some of you want to argue that a subway here is not needed?!? Seriously?!?

Yeah, for as long as I can remember, they've been running 4 cars.
Then again, I mostly ride during the morning and evening rush. I'm sure that they don't use as many during the day when there are less riders.

[rsbear]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

Yeah, for as long as I can remember, they've been running 4 cars.
Then again, I mostly ride during the morning and evening rush. I'm sure that they don't use as many during the day when there are less riders.

Just curious, what's the service requency for the four-car trains during rush hour?

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by rsbear

Just curious, what's the service frequency for the four-car trains during rush hour?

15 Min. service all day from Monday-Saturday. Sunday is every 20 or 30 minutes, I don't recall.

Trains come more frequently through downtown because 2 lines come together, so more like every 7-8 minutes downtown.

[pdxman]

Yay! Obama mentioned mass transit in his address!

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

It's already super crowded at rush hour. And speaking of Big Pipe, didn't the two Big Pipes cost over a billion dollars EACH? And the CRC will be how much? Of course nobody WANTS to spend that kind of money, but if it becomes a necessity (and a subway will become a necessity sooner than later), the funds will have to be found somewhere.

The Big Pipe doesn't get the same kind of opposition though because EVERYONE uses it, no matter what their personal decisions are.

With public transit, 100% of the people fund it, and only about 10% of the people use it, and the other 90% usually get miffed at funding it.

(Yes, they could use it as well, but many usually wouldn't use it except as a method of last resort, and even then, some would prefer a taxi.)

[OutrageousJ]

Originally Posted by JordanL

The Big Pipe doesn't get the same kind of opposition though because EVERYONE uses it, no matter what their personal decisions are.

With public transit, 100% of the people fund it, and only about 10% of the people use it, and the other 90% usually get miffed at funding it.

(Yes, they could use it as well, but many usually wouldn't use it except as a method of last resort, and even then, some would prefer a taxi.)

I think this is why Portland needs to start bundling transit improvement measures with highway improvements measures - that way it can be sold as improving everyone's traveling experience. I think Denver did it that way with their huge rail expansion a few years back.

What if the CRC budget was combined with a few billion for a subway under downtown? I hate to say it, because the CRC seems like a rediculous waste of money, but that would definitely make me more likely to support the CRC. And I'm sure it would get a few anti-transit people on board for a subway.

[brandonpdx]

it should be pointed out that it does impact car commuters because it will keep x many people/cars off the road.

[Okstate]

What is going on at HW 99 E near downtown? That is one huge mess over there.

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by Okstate

What is going on at HW 99 E near downtown? That is one huge mess over there.

you mean the bridge over the railroad tracks? they have to rebuild it because it turns out they build the old one on sawdust, and it doesn't hold up so well.

[zilfondel]

They've been working on that one for like 2 years now?? Replacement of the entire viaduct.

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by JordanL

The Big Pipe doesn't get the same kind of opposition though because EVERYONE uses it, no matter what their personal decisions are.

With public transit, 100% of the people fund it, and only about 10% of the people use it, and the other 90% usually get miffed at funding it.

(Yes, they could use it as well, but many usually wouldn't use it except as a method of last resort, and even then, some would prefer a taxi.)

Sorry!

Originally Posted by Actual, factual information

Who rides TriMet
Forty-four percent of adults (age 16 and older) in
the Portland region ride TriMet “a couple of times a
month” or more compared to 31% in 1997—the year
before the Westside MAX opened. Since then, two
new rail lines opened (the Red and Yellow lines) and
the Frequent Service program extended bus hours
throughout the region.

http://trimet.org/pdfs/publications/customer_profile.pdf

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by OutrageousJ

I think this is why Portland needs to start bundling transit improvement measures with highway improvements measures - that way it can be sold as improving everyone's traveling experience. I think Denver did it that way with their huge rail expansion a few years back.

What if the CRC budget was combined with a few billion for a subway under downtown? I hate to say it, because the CRC seems like a rediculous waste of money, but that would definitely make me more likely to support the CRC. And I'm sure it would get a few anti-transit people on board for a subway.

Seattle tried that, and it didn't pass [Prop 1]. And... if car-happy Seattle (with 10 lane freeways) won't pass an $18 billion combined transit + roads measure, I doubt that anti-car Portland would!

[RED_PDXer]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

Meanwhile, we're limited to 2-car trains, and a severely restricted capacity as a result. And some of you want to argue that a subway here is not needed?!? Seriously?!?

We have three lines operating on one track downtown now and it works. With transit mall tracks opening this year, downtown is not the critical capacity constraint. The capacity constraint is at RQ and it doesn't require a tunnel to fix. The constraint comes from MAX waiting for auto traffic signal cycles. If it was just MAX in that area, virtually no capacity issue in the foreseeable future. It would probably cost $30-40 million at most by grade separating auto traffic. It would cost 1/10th that if we just disallowed auto traffic from that area. Way cheaper..

So, yes, I'm serious that a tunnel isn't needed.

On a side note, 2-car trains is actually kinda nice because it forces TriMet to provide better frequencies. This evening, I boarded a Blue Line home right in the middle of rush hour and it was about 2 minutes behind yet another blue line. It never got crowded and there were even seats available. We're certainly not at capacity now.. Some trains are packed, but it's often due to headways (too long elapsed before the last train).

I should also point out that some of the "big boys" (like NY, Chicago and LA have some bus routes that carry more passengers in a day than the Blue Line and over a shorter route. 2-car trains that carry over 250 passengers per train is not the constraint either..

[rsbear]

Originally Posted by OutrageousJ

I think this is why Portland needs to start bundling transit improvement measures with highway improvements measures - that way it can be sold as improving everyone's traveling experience. I think Denver did it that way with their huge rail expansion a few years back.

What if the CRC budget was combined with a few billion for a subway under downtown? I hate to say it, because the CRC seems like a rediculous waste of money, but that would definitely make me more likely to support the CRC. And I'm sure it would get a few anti-transit people on board for a subway.

Portland did that with the original MAX line to Gresham - it was bundled with a complete rebuild of I84 ("The Banfield") freeway from I5 to I205.

Not sure if it was a bundle, but the Sunset was rebuilt between Sylvan and the 217 around the same time as the Westside MAX line.

CRC is completely bundled - bridge/freeway rebuild with MAX extention.

[RED_PDXer]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

^ Except Portland doesn't have any HOT lanes. We don't even have articulated buses, even though they would make a lot of sense, particularly for routes like the one up 39th, 82nd, #14, #12, which have high ridership #'s.

Also, a super high density Damascus is probably decades away.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/road_to_bigger_better_damascus.html

Another lame Oregonian article. Damascus can be developed quickly (provided the real estate market gets strong). All it takes is some effort and willpower. I'm sure the typical O-inspired naysayers loved that article though..

I actually don't care if it gets developed since just keeping it empty provides our 20-year supply of developable land. It shouldn't have been incorporated into the UGB in the first place, but that discussion is pointless now.

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

Sorry!

http://trimet.org/pdfs/publications/customer_profile.pdf

I was talking in a more general sense than Portland, where we all seem to appreciate our transit. (Even my registered Republican parents tell me how they understand the value of funding public transit.)

You know what I would love to see?

Bus service after 1AM.

Even on the very latest busses, this usually — for me. Because often you have to transfer busses, which means your last bus actually leaves at 10:30, which means your "curfew" so that you can get to the bus stop with a little time to cushion yourself is about 10:15.

This happens anytime I'm travelling from a point in SE Portland to NE Portland, or SW Portland to NE Portland... transfer busses, means I have a "bed time".

[JordanL]

"Provided the real estate market gets strong"?

Maybe you haven't been paying attention... real estate in the entire country was almost 100% overvalued...

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by JordanL

The Big Pipe doesn't get the same kind of opposition though because EVERYONE uses it, no matter what their personal decisions are.

With public transit, 100% of the people fund it, and only about 10% of the people use it, and the other 90% usually get miffed at funding it.

(Yes, they could use it as well, but many usually wouldn't use it except as a method of last resort, and even then, some would prefer a taxi.)

Um, actually, I don't use the east side big pipe, only the west side. So I shouldn't have to pay for the one I don't use. Is that your argument?

I also don't have kids and don't use the schools, so my property taxes shouldn't go to pay for those either, correct?

Personally, I rarely use mass transit, but I'm willing to pay for it because I know it makes the city I live in a better place to live for EVERYONE. I'm frankly not that selfish as to say that I won't pay for schools or transit or sewers or parks that I don't use.