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  #2001  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2008, 8:38 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Originally Posted by dante2308 View Post
To everyone who answered that they were close to a MARTA station, that was rhetorical. Of course people in this forum would be people who are attracted to transit oriented areas. I walk a lot myself and I take MARTA as well, but in all honesty, it really doesn't replace the convenience for a car in a practical way and you can't change everything with the goal of making it inconvenient for one half to help the other. You can simply accommodate both.
Thats exactly the point! To reconfigure these streets to accomodate other forms of travel beyond exclusively the automobile. As they are currently designed the automobile is the only priority. Connect Atlanta documents cover this issue extensively.

Also there is a third access point to Buford in Midtown from Peachtree just south of the interstate.

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Dec 11, 2008 at 12:04 AM.
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  #2002  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2008, 10:59 PM
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It has also been proven that two-way streets foster retail development. One of the goals of the Connect plan is to spread the retail a couple of blocks off of Peachtree in each direction.

Sorry, but big cities are supposed to be crowded to drive in. I agree with everyone else that it's time to retrofit the city. The cars have been catered to for far too long.
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  #2003  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 1:08 AM
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Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
Thats exactly the point! To reconfigure these streets to accomodate other forms of travel beyond exclusively the automobile. As they are currently designed the automobile is the only priority. Connect Atlanta documents cover this issue extensively.

Also there is a third access point to Buford in Midtown from Peachtree just south of the interstate.
I'm not against the plan. I think everyone seems to be missing that. I'm for a new onramp that will allow the plan to go and against routing highway-destined traffic through neighborhoods in an effort to make it more walkable.

About access points, I'm talking about the gap in highway access between North Avenue and the top of West Peachtree that forces drivers to stay on our surface streets for 20 blocks right next to a highway. Anything north of the start of Buford Highway doesn't really relate to the conversation.
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  #2004  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 1:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RobMidtowner View Post
Dante, the point is left-hand exits/entrances are not viable alternatives for general purpose lanes. HOV ramps in Georgia are designed that way, but as the Northside Drive accident shows, it can cause confusion to unfamiliar drivers. So the ramp you're talking about couldn't be used for general purpose lanes.

What would be cool though is if they made it a toll ramp where people could use it for $1 or free if it's a carpool/vanpool/bus.

And btw, I brought up Piedmont Rd because you said Buford Hwy was the only way to get to I-85N from midtown and that's not true.
Onramps are much different than highway exits because in terms of people overshooting and running into barriers like at Northside Drive. That problem is therefore not the issue. The only real issue might be merging across the highway in order to catch the next exit which is ironically Buford Highway.

I support the idea of an HOV lane entrance and it might even allow access to I-75's HOV area if implemented right. I think the congestion issue trying to go through the reorganized West Peachtree might serve as a good incentive to use HOV lanes.

Piedmont Road wasn't applicable because I was saying that 20 blocks without an entrance caused a surface street problem. The Piedmont Road entrance is even further from the North Avenue one. You could have at that point named any entrance north of Midtown if you were trying to prove that there was a way to get on the highway, but it doesn't make what I said "not true."
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  #2005  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 1:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
That's the point isn't it? Of course cars aren't going away in a city like ours. Instead of giving the automobile absolute priority at all times and places, however, we're identifying some built up zones where unfettered speed driving needs to compromise a little, in order to peacefully co-exist with more urban forms.

We don't need a 1970s style ramp interchange in the middle of Midtown just so that motorists can go barreling on to the Buford Highway at top speed. This is a city, for Pete's sake! Let drivers pull up to the intersection, and then move on to the highway at a reasonable pace that doesn't intimidate walkers and cyclists or turn the surrounding businesses into an invisible and irrelevant blur.

It's a myth that old-timey freeway interchanges are efficient ways to move large numbers of people anyway. Anyone driving on any of our major freeways at heavy traffic times will see enormous gaggles of vehicles at every exit, both trying to get on and get off the Superslab.
Okay to respond to the "highways as dinosaurs" argument, let me reiterate: I am not against this plan. I'm thinking about both sides of the issue and I'm trying to see if this plan can be implemented in a way that benefits all parties. I think the idea of a mid-bridge HOV entrance on 14th street is a workable solution. It is not a blast from the 70's, isn't particularly expensive, and would promote carpooling while taking cars off of the surface street before they hit the reorganized area. This will allow and new projects to benefit from not being tainted by the perception of a traffic nightmare.

I think this solution would absolutely enhance the benefits of the plan.

As for the philosophical argument about making places more pedestrian oriented, that may be fine and I have no problem with it and I would prefer it myself, but I may have to rain a bit on the parade by mentioning that the use of automobile isn't going to be replaced in the name of new energy or the environment. It will simply evolve into a different vehicle that isn't dependent on oil.

Fortunately or unfortunately, that alone would solve the environmental problems associated with driving without the added expense of trying to make our cities more efficient.

Personally, my priorities lie in making the city more family oriented and solving the problems of deterioration of some of the less pristine communities. It is a little disconcerting that so much could be spent to reorganize a working upscale part of the city while swaths of West Atlanta are mostly ignored.
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  #2006  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2008, 4:37 PM
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Beltline moves forward at a cost

Beltline moves forward at a cost
Atlanta pays $3.5 million to get out of partnership set up to smooth land deal.

By KEVIN DUFFY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Thursday, December 11, 2008
Atlanta BeltLine Inc., a branch of the Atlanta Development Authority, recently dissolved a business partnership with Barry Real Estate Cos. by paying Barry $3.5 million. Barry, however, initially wanted much more — $9.9 million.

“It seems to me we were kind of held hostage” by Barry because of a deadline to buy BeltLine land, Atlanta City Councilwoman Anne Fauver said.

But Lance Patterson, Barry’s president and chief operating officer, said the nearly $10 million figure was based on an analysis of projected value and nothing else.

The research detailed what Barry and a contract employee, broker Ben Raney, had invested and what they stood to lose if they were no longer in the Beltline deal.

“We didn’t just pull a number out of the air,” Patterson said Thursday.

In the summer of 2007, Barry and Atlanta BeltLine formed NE Corridor Partners to buy and develop 4-1/2 miles in the Beltline’s northeast corridor.

The Beltline is a 22-mile rail loop the city is trying to redevelop into light-rail transportation with green space, homes and businesses.

The northeast segment was owned by Gwinnett County real estate investor Wayne Mason.

Mason was willing to sell the land to the partnership but set an Oct. 31 deadline. Missing the deadline meant Mason might get to keep the property and almost $30 million — the partnership’s stake plus the interest on a loan Mason provided. The partnership might have been left with nothing.

But just before the deadline, the Atlanta City Council facilitated the land purchase by approving the issuance of Beltline Tax Allocation District bonds.

To use the TAD funds, however, the private partners had to be bought out. Atlanta BeltLine initially offered Barry, developer of the Allen Plaza project downtown, and Raney about $1.74 million.

“The terms proposed are underwhelming, to say the least,” responded attorney Kenneth Kraft in correspondence obtained through the state Open Records Act. The true value is 470 percent higher, Barry’s figures show.

Terri Montague, president and CEO of Atlanta BeltLine Inc., said after receiving the counterproposal “we went away and got silent for awhile” and considered litigation. “There was no way that we were prepared to start the conversation from that framework. This deal can’t be too rich. There’s such a thing as too much.”

Patterson said, “Arguably, our number was a little high and theirs was a little low.”

Shortly after the NE Corridor partnership formed last year, the economy worsened and loans became scarce.

Barry and Raney had put $1.5 million into the deal but had no luck borrowing more funds to buy the Mason property.

They had little skin in the game, Montague said, so “what’s the value of having private partners?”

As fear gripped the markets and credit tightened, Barry decided to accept $3.5 million to bow out, a figure almost 65 percent below what it said was the deal’s real worth.

“Our sense was the value of our piece was going down,” Patterson said. Barry also wanted the Mason sale to go through to further the Beltline effort, he added.

The private partners’ down payments and expenses totaled nearly $2.3 million, about $1.2 million less than the final settlement amount, according to documents obtained through Open Records.

Montague called the difference a negotiated amount that included unbilled time. “I can assure you $3.5 million is fair,” she said. “I don’t think you’re going to get much lower than that.”

But Fauver said $1.2 million was “just a markup.”

“I’m very disappointed that the Beltline had to agree to pay the private partnership approximately a 50 percent profit in one year in a real estate transaction when the real estate market has tanked. That size profit is excessive.

“So many firms and individuals have given time and pro bono services to the city, that this seems a shame.”

Is the Beltline just another big project to a developer or a special case in which profits can be less for the public good? Patterson said there could be some give-backs with the Beltline, but a company has to make money to survive.

“It was important to us to make sure it was a good business deal,” he said of the short-lived pact with the city.

As it turned out, however, it wasn’t.
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  #2007  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2008, 8:03 PM
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Dante, concerning your comment about the neglected Atlanta Westside, I found this article to be interesting.
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  #2008  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2008, 9:56 PM
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MARTA, highway work dominate Georgia stimulus package

Atlanta Business Chronicle - by Dave Williams Staff Writer

Highway projects and MARTA would be the major beneficiaries of Georgia’s wish list of transportation improvements submitted to President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team.

The $3.4 billion package of funding requests includes $2.2 billion for road projects across the state and $1.1 billion in upgrades for the MARTA system.

The incoming administration asked states two weeks ago to submit lists of projects that could be ready to go within 180 days. Transportation and other infrastructure improvements are expected to make up a major portion of the economic stimulus plan Congress may have ready for Obama to sign as early as Jan. 20, the day he takes office.

Among the largest highway projects on the state’s wish list for metro Atlanta are:

• $111 million for resurfacing Interstate 285 from West Paces Ferry Road to Chamblee-Tucker Road

• $51 million for improvements along Georgia 74 in Fayette County

• $48 million for resurfacing Interstate 75 from the Brookwood interchange to the Chattahoochee River

• $35.3 million for resurfacing I-75 from I-285 to University Avenue

• $17.4 million for median improvements along the Peachtree Road corridor

The MARTA projects include replacing aging elevators and communications systems, renovating nine stations and building a park-and-ride facility near the Stonecrest mall along I-20.

One potential obstacle to getting the funding is that federal aid for transportation projects typically requires a 20 percent match, Georgia Commissioner of Transportation Gena Evans said.

“We can’t afford the match, and neither can the other states,” she said.

Besides 100 percent federal funding, Evans said federal transportation officials also would have to waive the usual environmental review and permitting requirements to get the projects going quickly enough to jump-start the economy.

Last edited by smArTaLlone; Dec 18, 2008 at 10:06 PM.
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  #2009  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 1:43 AM
Tombstoner Tombstoner is offline
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Too bad most of this sounds like routine maintenance work rather than actually increasing transportation options. I guess $3.4 billion doesn't buy what it used to...
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  #2010  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 7:22 AM
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i'm wondering myself what renovating 9 stations will entail. de-bunker-izing some of those fortresses intown, maybe? ha...
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  #2011  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
Atlanta Business Chronicle - by Dave Williams Staff Writer

Highway projects and MARTA would be the major beneficiaries of Georgia’s wish list of transportation improvements submitted to President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team.

The $3.4 billion package of funding requests includes $2.2 billion for road projects across the state and $1.1 billion in upgrades for the MARTA system.

The incoming administration asked states two weeks ago to submit lists of projects that could be ready to go within 180 days. Transportation and other infrastructure improvements are expected to make up a major portion of the economic stimulus plan Congress may have ready for Obama to sign as early as Jan. 20, the day he takes office.

Among the largest highway projects on the state’s wish list for metro Atlanta are:

• $111 million for resurfacing Interstate 285 from West Paces Ferry Road to Chamblee-Tucker Road

• $51 million for improvements along Georgia 74 in Fayette County

• $48 million for resurfacing Interstate 75 from the Brookwood interchange to the Chattahoochee River

• $35.3 million for resurfacing I-75 from I-285 to University Avenue

• $17.4 million for median improvements along the Peachtree Road corridor

The MARTA projects include replacing aging elevators and communications systems, renovating nine stations and building a park-and-ride facility near the Stonecrest mall along I-20.

One potential obstacle to getting the funding is that federal aid for transportation projects typically requires a 20 percent match, Georgia Commissioner of Transportation Gena Evans said.

“We can’t afford the match, and neither can the other states,” she said.

Besides 100 percent federal funding, Evans said federal transportation officials also would have to waive the usual environmental review and permitting requirements to get the projects going quickly enough to jump-start the economy.
Also included for transit are
  • Atlanta GA Transit Travel Demand Model and Engineering for Beltline Transit and Trail $6,000,000
  • Atlanta GA Transit 5 Miles of Beltline Trail and Spur Trails $18,000,000

Full source at http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/documents/mser-report-200812.pdf

Fun Graph Time
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  #2012  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 4:15 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jan 26, 2009 at 7:17 PM.
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  #2013  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 5:54 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is offline
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Originally Posted by jew4life4948 View Post
Also included for transit are
  • Atlanta GA Transit Travel Demand Model and Engineering for Beltline Transit and Trail $6,000,000
  • Atlanta GA Transit 5 Miles of Beltline Trail and Spur Trails $18,000,000

Full source at http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/documents/mser-report-200812.pdf

That's the city of Atlanta's wish list. Marta is on the state's list which is a little ironic.
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  #2014  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by smArTaLlone View Post
That's the city of Atlanta's wish list. Marta is on the state's list which is a little ironic.
Oh, does the city's list not get consolidated into the state's? Otherwise aren't city agencies just competing with state agencies for funds?
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  #2015  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 7:00 PM
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I also remember Atlanta, Phoenix and Philadelphia were asking for money from the $700 billion dollar bailout, but wasn't that just for funding to maintain existing city operations?
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  #2016  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jew4life4948 View Post
I also remember Atlanta, Phoenix and Philadelphia were asking for money from the $700 billion dollar bailout, but wasn't that just for funding to maintain existing city operations?
I think that was to protect them from creditors: a number of transit systems "sold" infrastructure to AIG and leased them back and now some of these "loans" could be called in. It was tax avoidance for the company and instant cash for the transit agencies. This practice is illegal now but it was really shady IMHO. I didn't remember when those deals were actually made -- wonder if there were hearings and such?

As far as MARTA goes, I know all the playa's involved are now gone.
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  #2017  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2008, 1:08 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jan 26, 2009 at 7:15 PM.
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  #2018  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2008, 3:47 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jan 26, 2009 at 7:15 PM.
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  #2019  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2008, 9:46 PM
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Does anyone know where you can find a complete MARTA system map, showing all the bus routes? There used to be one on the MARTA website but I can't find it anymore.
it's back on marta's site now.

http://www.itsmarta.com/maps/viewer.asp
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  #2020  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2008, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
Sadly she was offered no record deal.
I really want to book her for my brother's wedding.
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