ATLANTA TRANSIT (Marta, Beltline, Peachtree Streetcar, LovJoy Commuter, etc...)

[GTviajero81]

Maybe it is time for America the adopt the concept of the city-state? I am so tired of having lawmakers who have nothing to do with the city end up acting in ways that ultimately screw the major cities within their respective states, most notably here in Georgia. Gosh, don't these lawmakers realise that the vitality of the Atlanta Metro area is what drives the status of this state even higher?

[jew4life4948]

Originally Posted by Andrea

Yeah, but I would not think Georgia or its legislative delegation is exactly on Obama's short list of places for handing out money. We just elected a Senator by a landslide who campaigned on a platform of keeping Obama in check. And one of our congressmen called him uppity.

AJC wrote a piece on it today.

"Georgia cities line up for Obama’s public works plan
Atlanta, Marietta, Acworth among those compiling wish lists of infrastructure improvements

Local governments across Georgia are piecing together wish lists as they hope to cash in on the largest public works construction program in more than half a century.

Atlanta, so far, has the longest list, ranging from a request for $3,708 to replace some light fixtures in a city building to $500 million for the planned international terminal at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

There are dozens of water and sewer requests on the city’s list, too, plus $120 million to resurface streets.

“There’s no harm in asking,” said Councilman Howard Shook, who chairs the city’s finance committee. “That seems to be how we govern these days, ask the president-elect.”

Over the weekend, President-elect Barack Obama committed to the vast infrastructure program as he tries to put together a plan to resuscitate the reeling economy. Although he put no price tag on it, Obama said he would invest record amounts of money into the program.

Now, big cities and small towns across the nation are compiling lists to submit to Washington to show the need for work. Obama’s transition team has asked local governments to look for projects that are ready to begin in as little as 90 days and could be finished by the end of next year. The hope is to boost the economy by putting people to work while also getting long-neglected projects completed.

The U.S. Conference of Mayors, a national lobbying group, has compiled an 803-page report detailing needs by city and state. Six Georgia cities — Atlanta, Marietta, College Park, Acworth, Athens and Savannah — are included in the report.

Together, they’ve requested billions of dollars for projects, such as $2.5 million for a water line extension in College Park; $1.5 million for street repaving in Acworth; and $1 million to dredge a water treatment plant in Athens.

More local needs are being compiled and routed to the incoming administration through regional, state and national agencies, such as the Atlanta Regional Commission, the National Associations of Counties and the Georgia Department of Transportation.

Like every other state, Georgia already has a long list of highway projects: There are 319 in all, totaling more than $1.1 billion.

As for the city of Atlanta, Mayor Shirley Franklin has been out front in requesting help from the incoming administration. She’s even signed a letter seeking money to help the city with its ongoing financial crisis.

Officials in both Marietta and Acworth said the lists for their cities were compiled on their behalf through requests to state agencies, such as the Georgia Department of Transportation.

Even so, Acworth Mayor Tommy Allegood is eager to get $3.75 million.

“I’d spend it in three months directly on road repair and sidewalk repair,” Allegood said. “We could spend that within 90 days and put local contractors to work.”

Jim Philipps, with the national county lobbying group, NACo, said his organization hopes to have a list of requests from counties all over the nation sometime this week.

“We are trying to demonstrate to the decision-makers that counties have projects ready to go,” Philipps said. “We see this whole thing as a step toward restoring the partnership between the federal and local governments.”

Because Obama’s idea remains an idea — and not a policy — there are no guidelines on what qualifies as an eligible project or how to apply. And, no one knows how much money Obama will make available as president.

Sam Olens, Cobb County commission chairman, said his county is going through the Atlanta Regional Commission and the state’s transportation department to get a list of road projects in front of the transition team.

Cobb County, he said, would focus on needs rather than wants and try to limit its request as much as possible.

Olens, though, was concerned about using debt to try to buy America’s way out of a recession.

“I have mixed feelings,” Olens said. “It clearly puts people to work. You don’t solve one problem by creating another.

“Yes, there are a lot of road projects and water projects, but I am not looking to double the nation’s debt.”

— Staff writer Kay Powell contributed to this article."

Most of it is related to water and road repair though

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Andrea

All new urbanists know that converting back to two-way streets is the way to go.

It's about taming the automobile. One way streets were created to facilitate fast auto traffic. We don't want that in our cities. We want drivers to poke along, to stop at the shops and restaurants, and to yield to cyclists and pedestrians, rather than speeding rapidly from Point A to Point B. We want on street parking as well, since that slows down cars and provides a buffer to people on the sidewalks.

Hopefully, people will be deterred from driving in the city, and will choose transit instead. Take those cars out in the suburbs and leave them there, or at least use a park and ride on the edges of town when you need to come into the city.

I can tell you right now that walking or biking down Spring Street or West Peachtree is a pretty scary experience. They are car streets. Compare them to Peachtree, which is much more of a pedestrian street.

See I'm a liberal Democrat intensely interested in city planning and one would assume that I would be a New Urbanist, but unfortunately, I see far too many shortcomings.

First, I don't think the plan is comprehensive enough. New Urbanists seem to have a black and white cars bad, pedestrians good view of things when it comes to individual projects. I don't believe in such characterizations.

On a macro scale, limiting car traffic through reducing capacity actually keeps the traffic at maximum capacity at all times. While the overall number of cars are down, there is a permanent state of gridlock. The same effect is evident when increasing capacity in a growing city like this where the gridlock follows capacity.

Secondly, the issue is actually alternatives. Buford Highway serves traffic going up 85 North, going up 400 North, or going to Buckhead. Because it is the only road that does this, it provides no other recourse for someone who works or lives in Midtown. It is important to understand that there is a population of Midtown residents that are affected who have no relation to the suburbs. As long as there are large businesses in Midtown and no affordable family housing, there will be mounds of commuters. The question is what to do with them without simply ignoring their plight. Buses become useless in a gridlock environment which leaves no good way for residents to move around. I will have you consider what happens to retail and restaurants when the area is perceived to be too congested for the effort. If you think MARTA is convenient or even available to most of metro Atlanta, then you're a bit mistaken.

Thirdly, there is the problem of land values. This project will raise local land values and while that sounds good on paper, it causes me concern that the area would start to lose it's competitive edge and become a haven for the non-existent upper class. This is a culture issue. It involves the tearing down of night spots as well. I'm a little uneasy about the prospect of a more rich childless car-driving conservative NIMBY enclave replacing the people who would want transit in the first place. I think the New Urbanists have often forgotten the true heart of the city is making it livable for families. Atlantic Station is not. Streets of Buckhead is not. Where is the sustainability in that? Instead of making 3.3 billion dollar ant-suburban plans, we should be focusing on making Atlanta a more attractive place for the mainstream folk to live so that living in town is a viable alternative. Proper schools would be a good start. Then we can come in with reducing crime and homelessness. Finally some parks you would let your three year old run around in would be nice too.

I would like to remind you that Atlanta is not a complete community. Its population changes drastically during the day still and cutting off access to the suburbs will be a huge determent. We can't treat the suburbanites as some kind of infestation we need to knee-cap. They are the lifeblood of Midtown. If you want them off the streets, don't put more stoplights in their way, don't force them to drive 20 blocks through your neighborhood in the first place.

Fix the problem: commuters on surface streets
Don't make another: commuters clogging surface streets longer, later, and at pedestrian friendly speeds.

Onramp!

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by GTviajero81

I think that if one looks at the whole picture this will actually be helpful. Considering that Midtown Atlanta literally has only five N-S thoroughfares (Spring, W. Peachtree, Peachtree, Juniper, Piedmont), reclaiming our two western streets is wonderful! Also, if I am not mistaken isn't there to be a new ramp from Midtown onto the Connector at 14th? If people are so afraid of congestion then get out of the damn vehicle and take the train or bus! Once again this is a case with dealing with the hand that we have been dealt -- i.e., enhanced pedestrian ambiance and urban connectivity is more important than freeing up important roads for the purposes of commuters. Currently West Peachtree is truly a beautiful, urban thoroughfare -- arguably one of the most urban vistas in the city when looking southbound at 10th -- yet this view is hardly noticed as it runs one-way northbound. The 15-mph experience is much more appealing and appropriate for the centre-city than the 35-50mph (this IS Atlanta, after all) experience.

If only we could make those 300,000 commuters disappear and get rid of the highway all together. Do you realize that have traffic at a standstill on West Peachtree will spill over onto every road for miles? We are funneling tens of thousands of people onto one two lane road. Who would buy a condo here if they can't even leave to sign the deal?

I'm all for the plan as long as we get an onramp. It's one thing to focus on making places nice to look at. It's quite another to completely abandon traffic planning.

A bus or a train is not going to get anyone in Midtown to anywhere else in Midtown. Buses will become a bit useless when they can't move and the train is already useless when you can walk between the stations which really don't go anywhere you'd want to go except on a Friday night. I'm talking about doctor's appointments and groceries and all the reasons I left the house today. I'd like to have my 4-7 hour back please.

Honestly, does anyone here live next to a Marta station? If you want to try New York style living, perhaps you should put in the trains and alternatives before you put a brick four way intersection in the middle of a 55 mph highway.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by GTviajero81

Maybe it is time for America the adopt the concept of the city-state? I am so tired of having lawmakers who have nothing to do with the city end up acting in ways that ultimately screw the major cities within their respective states, most notably here in Georgia. Gosh, don't these lawmakers realise that the vitality of the Atlanta Metro area is what drives the status of this state even higher?

Here-here. Except that if Atlanta could do for itself it would. We need federal or state funding for certain things. Republicans are on a long anti-progress binge and it gets more and more adversarial and selfish as time passes. I see Congress and legislatures filling up with the type of Republicans who talk about "real" Americans and how horrible the cities are and it really pains me to see so many ideas crumble before really stupid arguments.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by jew4life4948

AJC wrote a piece on it today.

"Georgia cities line up for Obama’s public works plan
Atlanta, Marietta, Acworth among those compiling wish lists of infrastructure improvements

Local governments across Georgia are piecing together wish lists as they hope to cash in on the largest public works construction program in more than half a century.

Atlanta, so far, has the longest list, ranging from a request for $3,708 to replace some light fixtures in a city building to $500 million for the planned international terminal at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

There are dozens of water and sewer requests on the city’s list, too, plus $120 million to resurface streets.

“There’s no harm in asking,” said Councilman Howard Shook, who chairs the city’s finance committee. “That seems to be how we govern these days, ask the president-elect.”

Over the weekend, President-elect Barack Obama committed to the vast infrastructure program as he tries to put together a plan to resuscitate the reeling economy. Although he put no price tag on it, Obama said he would invest record amounts of money into the program.

Now, big cities and small towns across the nation are compiling lists to submit to Washington to show the need for work. Obama’s transition team has asked local governments to look for projects that are ready to begin in as little as 90 days and could be finished by the end of next year. The hope is to boost the economy by putting people to work while also getting long-neglected projects completed.

The U.S. Conference of Mayors, a national lobbying group, has compiled an 803-page report detailing needs by city and state. Six Georgia cities — Atlanta, Marietta, College Park, Acworth, Athens and Savannah — are included in the report.

Together, they’ve requested billions of dollars for projects, such as $2.5 million for a water line extension in College Park; $1.5 million for street repaving in Acworth; and $1 million to dredge a water treatment plant in Athens.

More local needs are being compiled and routed to the incoming administration through regional, state and national agencies, such as the Atlanta Regional Commission, the National Associations of Counties and the Georgia Department of Transportation.

Like every other state, Georgia already has a long list of highway projects: There are 319 in all, totaling more than $1.1 billion.

As for the city of Atlanta, Mayor Shirley Franklin has been out front in requesting help from the incoming administration. She’s even signed a letter seeking money to help the city with its ongoing financial crisis.

Officials in both Marietta and Acworth said the lists for their cities were compiled on their behalf through requests to state agencies, such as the Georgia Department of Transportation.

Even so, Acworth Mayor Tommy Allegood is eager to get $3.75 million.

“I’d spend it in three months directly on road repair and sidewalk repair,” Allegood said. “We could spend that within 90 days and put local contractors to work.”

Jim Philipps, with the national county lobbying group, NACo, said his organization hopes to have a list of requests from counties all over the nation sometime this week.

“We are trying to demonstrate to the decision-makers that counties have projects ready to go,” Philipps said. “We see this whole thing as a step toward restoring the partnership between the federal and local governments.”

Because Obama’s idea remains an idea — and not a policy — there are no guidelines on what qualifies as an eligible project or how to apply. And, no one knows how much money Obama will make available as president.

Sam Olens, Cobb County commission chairman, said his county is going through the Atlanta Regional Commission and the state’s transportation department to get a list of road projects in front of the transition team.

Cobb County, he said, would focus on needs rather than wants and try to limit its request as much as possible.

Olens, though, was concerned about using debt to try to buy America’s way out of a recession.

“I have mixed feelings,” Olens said. “It clearly puts people to work. You don’t solve one problem by creating another.

“Yes, there are a lot of road projects and water projects, but I am not looking to double the nation’s debt.”

— Staff writer Kay Powell contributed to this article."

Most of it is related to water and road repair though

That might be perceived a little porky.... I can already see the campaign ads.

[GTviajero81]

Originally Posted by dante2308

Honestly, does anyone here live next to a Marta station? If you want to try New York style living, perhaps you should put in the trains and alternatives before you put a brick four way intersection in the middle of a 55 mph highway.

Yep, I do. And I take MARTA to go to Midtown all the time from my house (Candler Park) and to the airport. When I moved back to Atlanta from Europe I ensured that my daily goings-on were accessible by the metro so that I would not have to rely on my automobile. Sure, it is there and I could use it when i see fit (eg. having to visit friends and family outside of 285 or not Marta-accessible) but honestly, I love to be able to sit on either the train or the bus (#45 goes straight from Candler Park station to Midtown station in just about 20 mins, i.e. less time than driving the 4 miles and then locating parking that is not illegal) listen to music and read a book/periodical/policy memo (work stuff essentially) or do something like not worry about having to negotiate around the other drivers. I was talking to someone just the other day and she lamented that she had to wait for a friend to become free so that they could go to a bookstore in VaHi. Curiosity got the best of me and I asked what the problem was. She said that her friend was her ride to VaHi. I then suggested that she take public trans. She gave me a bewildered look and said, "But I would get lost!" Mind you, readers, this conversation was held on the Georgia Tech campus....she was afraid to get lost going, what, about 15-20 blocks? (10th to Virginia and voilá...VaHi) I even told her that a bus would take here directly there (Tech Trolley to Midtown Station, #45, every 30 mins - at the time of the conversation that is - get off at the Taco Mac on Highland and Virginia, total trip time: maybe 10 mins?)

Effecting a change on the mindset of locals, therefore, requires changing the options available. I am sure that when Suzy Jo from Cartersville and Sung Park from Lawrenceville realise that by driving into a city where one-ways are greatly diminished drastically increases their commute time, seeking transportation alternatives becomes a priority. Personally one of the coolest things to see in Midtown is the intersection of 5th and Spring in Tech Square...on the west side of Spring there is usually a queue of express buses going to destinations all over the Metro: Hiram,Douglasville, Mall of Georgia, McDonough, Conyers, among others. It is so nice to have those options.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by dante2308

Honestly, does anyone here live next to a Marta station? If you want to try New York style living, perhaps you should put in the trains and alternatives before you put a brick four way intersection in the middle of a 55 mph highway.

Many of us have made it a point to live and work where we have access to MARTA.

But you are overstating the case. I'm kidding you about New Urbanism, of course, but no one is trying to outlaw cars, or force you to ride the bus all the time. No one is talking about denying motorists access to the Buford Highway -- to the contrary, if I'm reading this plan correctly, there are 4 ways to get on the Buford Highway between 17th and 18th Streets.

Good planning is a matter of balance. It's not black and white, and it's not simply a choice between the Manhattan lifestyle vs. cruising down suburban freeways in an SUV.

Planning is also a matter of setting priorities. For the last 60 years, Atlanta has granted absolute primacy to the automobile, largely at the expense of everything else. But perhaps we've evolved beyond that, at least in some parts of the city. What we're talking about here is fostering one small zone where automobiles have to co-exist on a more equal footing with other means of transportation such as buses and shuttles, trains, trolleys, cyclists and yes, even people on foot. Automobiles won't be banned, but if they want to move through this area they will have to temporarily slow down a bit and respect other means of travel.

That's not asking too much. It happens in countless other cities, both large and small, every day of the week. And they flourish and provide a high quality of life. Commuters are not hobbled, and gridlock doesn’t ensue. I'd like to believe that we're reaching the stage in Atlanta where it's no longer absolutely mandatory that we give top priority to the automobile in every respect. Let’s start creating and nourishing some zones where getting in a car is not the only option.

[GTviajero81]

Spot on, Andrea, spot on!

[smArTaLlone]

I second that!

[RobMidtowner]

There is another way to get to I-85 north from midtown, it's called Piedmont Road! And dante, your recommended alternatives for "adding ramps" make it clear you have no idea about traffic flow/highway design at all. You can't just connect Road A with Road B any way you want, do you remember the bus that mistaked the northside drive HOV exit for the interstate? That's why these people called engineers go to school and get degrees and learn design standards so we can limit these kinds of things. The goal isn't to create a parking lot, there's things called design constraints.

And besides, hasn't W. Peachtree been down to 3 lanes anyway right before it turns into Buford Highway because of that sewer project? Doesn't seem to have made it much worse to me.

[Andrea]

I usually use Piedmont. Hopefully the Piedmont Corridor plan can be implemented in the relatively near term.

[jew4life4948]

"For the last 60 years, Atlanta has granted absolute primacy to the automobile, largely at the expense of everything else."

I whole-heartedly agree. Look at the streetcars we used to have! Then when GM bought the lines, tore them up and replaced it with "Trackless Trolleys".

As a Midtown Resident who uses 17th to W.Peachtree to Buford, the one thing I notice is the lack of pedestrian activity in this corridor. Has anyone seen that abandoned house on W. Peachtree and 18th?, and what about the Spring House. Those students are basically isolated from Midtown.

When coming into the city from Buford, Spring Street is basically the same thing, except with more stop lights. The sidewalks are still horrible and the amount of investment is dismal.

I absolutely agree that we need to keep fast traffic on the interstates, which I would agree that an access point need to be added, and local traffic on local streets.

And one more transit note. Currently living in Chicago, I notice a lot more middle-class people riding CTA buses. Granted they are run more efficiently, there is much less stigma in riding them, of course MARTA to CTA is apples to oranges.

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by GTviajero81

I was talking to someone just the other day and she lamented that she had to wait for a friend to become free so that they could go to a bookstore in VaHi. Curiosity got the best of me and I asked what the problem was. She said that her friend was her ride to VaHi. I then suggested that she take public trans. She gave me a bewildered look and said, "But I would get lost!" Mind you, readers, this conversation was held on the Georgia Tech campus....she was afraid to get lost going, what, about 15-20 blocks?

The lack of awareness of transit options is a major issue here in Atlanta. I think a lot of people -- including many "intowners" -- are oblivious to ways to get around other than driving.

There's still a lot of negative stigma attached to riding the bus as well.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

There is another way to get to I-85 north from midtown, it's called Piedmont Road! And dante, your recommended alternatives for "adding ramps" make it clear you have no idea about traffic flow/highway design at all. You can't just connect Road A with Road B any way you want, do you remember the bus that mistaked the northside drive HOV exit for the interstate? That's why these people called engineers go to school and get degrees and learn design standards so we can limit these kinds of things. The goal isn't to create a parking lot, there's things called design constraints.

And besides, hasn't W. Peachtree been down to 3 lanes anyway right before it turns into Buford Highway because of that sewer project? Doesn't seem to have made it much worse to me.

Actually I do have a good idea about traffic flow design and an onramp obviously does not run the risk of a bus not stopping in time. The situation is the opposite and a clear slow down sign might have mitigated that incident. That it happened once is clearly an act of stupidity that the government has overblown a bit.

Piedmont Road is not a viable access point for I-85 in lieu of Buford from Midtown. I didn't want to get to technical but I guess you've forced me to:

Red dots are actual access points to the highway. In the first map, an approximate main feed area is outlined. This map shows the North-South/West Peachtree dominated feed system that I would like to see ended. Note the high Earth orbit zoom level needed to achieve two north bound ramps onto 85 within a single shot whereas I-75 is covered in access points.



Here we see one possible alternative that allows the traffic flow to use several alternate routes to get on the highway and out of the city freeing up vast swaths of Midtown for more livable urban development. The simple placement of a 14th Street access point is actually workable with a little creative engineering and a left side onramp.


Mind I ask you why you are against this plan. It seems to turn West Peachtree into a pleasant local road with limited highway interference which is perfect for that plan. Atlantic Station on the other hand has been a little anti-urban with the dominance of 17th Street. It feels a little bit suburban in its width and implementation. It's the only road I feel really uncomfortable around in the area as a pedestrian.

[dante2308]

To everyone who answered that they were close to a MARTA station, that was rhetorical. Of course people in this forum would be people who are attracted to transit oriented areas. I walk a lot myself and I take MARTA as well, but in all honesty, it really doesn't replace the convenience for a car in a practical way and you can't change everything with the goal of making it inconvenient for one half to help the other. You can simply accommodate both.

[Free]

Originally Posted by Andrea

I usually use Piedmont. Hopefully the Piedmont Corridor plan can be implemented in the relatively near term.

What's the status on this plan?

Also, the Peachtree boulevard blog hasn't been updated in over a year. What's going on there?

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by Free

What's the status on this plan?

Also, the Peachtree boulevard blog hasn't been updated in over a year. What's going on there?

They were both adopted as part of the Connect Atlanta plan. It's my understanding that the second phase of the Peachtree Boulevard program (from Buckhead station north to Peachtree Dunwoody) hinges on whether Simon Properties will donate some right of way in front of Lenox Square, and apparently that's still under negotiation.

Originally Posted by dante2308

I walk a lot myself and I take MARTA as well, but in all honesty, it really doesn't replace the convenience for a car in a practical way and you can't change everything with the goal of making it inconvenient for one half to help the other. You can simply accommodate both.

That's the point isn't it? Of course cars aren't going away in a city like ours. Instead of giving the automobile absolute priority at all times and places, however, we're identifying some built up zones where unfettered speed driving needs to compromise a little, in order to peacefully co-exist with more urban forms.

We don't need a 1970s style ramp interchange in the middle of Midtown just so that motorists can go barreling on to the Buford Highway at top speed. This is a city, for Pete's sake! Let drivers pull up to the intersection, and then move on to the highway at a reasonable pace that doesn't intimidate walkers and cyclists or turn the surrounding businesses into an invisible and irrelevant blur.

It's a myth that old-timey freeway interchanges are efficient ways to move large numbers of people anyway. Anyone driving on any of our major freeways at heavy traffic times will see enormous gaggles of vehicles at every exit, both trying to get on and get off the Superslab.

[RobMidtowner]

Dante, the point is left-hand exits/entrances are not viable alternatives for general purpose lanes. HOV ramps in Georgia are designed that way, but as the Northside Drive accident shows, it can cause confusion to unfamiliar drivers. So the ramp you're talking about couldn't be used for general purpose lanes.

What would be cool though is if they made it a toll ramp where people could use it for $1 or free if it's a carpool/vanpool/bus.

And btw, I brought up Piedmont Rd because you said Buford Hwy was the only way to get to I-85N from midtown and that's not true.

[bugsy]

Originally Posted by dante2308

Pedestrians really have no trouble with one-way roads. Zero. You can't even complain about them. At intersections you just can't get hit by people turning. I still need to know who that plan benefits. Why not just add landscaping and wider sidewalks?

for one, two way streets are confusing to those who aren't familiar with the area. i know i've accidentally driven them in the wrong direction for short distances, elsewhere. more importantly though, pedestrians feel safer when walking next to cars traveling at slower speeds, and will be more inclined to walk. isn't that a precept of [new] urbanism in general? even with the wide sidewalks, 17th street is downright unfriendly to pedestrians, regardless of its wide sidewalks and those odd "benches" - and that definitely has partly to do with the speed of the cars barreling down it.