PHILADELPHIA | American Commerce Center | 1,510' Pinnacle / 1,210' Roof | 63 FLOORS

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

I don't see how WSC could possibly do that.

A) The Market Street subway is city property. The city doesn't have that kind of cash.

B) The Subway is leased to SEPTA. SEPTA isn't going to commit that kind of money to something that big right now between the MSE project and the acquisition of new railcars.

C) Anything of that nature is wayyyyyyyy beyond the jurisdiction of a private entity. As ambitious as this whole project is, this company has never developed anything of this scale before. Adding a subway station, while nice, is kind of wearing too many hats for them.

I came across this on PhillyBlog as well - The El will not be re-routed and station construction would be a major physical undertaking, requiring a realignment of the current four track configuration of the subway and widening of the tunnel possibly encroaching on property lines and I don't know if eminent domain can be claimed on skyscraper sub-basements.

I'd love to see it happen (it would be quite convenient for me) but it doesn't look possible right now to me. And personally if I were placing the station I would make 19th Street a transfer station - it's a convergence point for several bus routes and kind of a center point between the Rittenhouse Square area and the Parkway area, north to south. Since ACC would rise on 19th Street anyway, bringing the concourse down there to Market would work too (on paper, anyway).

While the ACC is a very ambitious project, and has my fullest support, I still feel that the subway infrastructure in this city is very outdated, IMO. The MFL should've had an express trunk line, totaling four tracks instead of the common two, but then again, you can blame the forefathers of the city's subway system for that messup, as they didn't realize that sooner or later, the city west of Broad St would expand.

[volguus zildrohar]

It's not an opinion that the subway is outdated - it's a fact. However, it operates well in its current state as I've stated before.

As you said, the shortsightedness of previous generations leads to today's 'lack of amenities'. Philadelphia's marketable assets would be even more attractive if the provincial mindset of leaders of all stripes weren't so pervasise decades ago.

Also keep in mind that four track express/local configurations were rarities in 1907. New York was the one and only at the time and that was for a practical purpose - time. The distance from West 96th Street to New York City Hall is a lot greater than the distance from 63rd & Market to Philadelphia City Hall. Even today, it remains relatively rare for subway systems because very few need that kind of track capacity. I'd make the argument that is isn't absolutely necessary for the Broad Street Subway (particularly becuase all the branches that were meant for it were never built).

[SJPhillyBoy]

New HQ for the NFL?!?

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/26328349.html

By Joseph N. DiStefano
Inquirer Staff Writer

Build this

Speaking of football: I finally heard a rumor about the proposed 1,500-foot American Commerce Center that almost made sense.
Tower fans love it, but everyone I've talked to in the real estate business says the building is a very long shot, like the abortive Girard Square superblock, the decade-old Philadelphia World Trade Center proposal, and the even older plan to obliterate riverfront chunks of East Camden and turn the place into Disneyland, or something.

You need a tenant before you build a billion-dollar building.

"I hear it's going to be the National Football League," the owner of another Philadelphia high-rise told me.

That's nuts, I thought. Then I remembered that pro football was based here, in the 1950s. And isn't the NFL pretty much a media-entertainment company - like Comcast, whose actual tower is down the block from the proposed American Commerce Center? Oh, and we're cheaper than Manhattan, where the NFL now lives.

"We don't have any plans to go anywhere," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello assured me. "Yes, Bert Bell used to have his office in Bala Cynwyd. But Pete Roselle moved it to New York in 1960, and we've been here since." Major League Baseball said it wasn't leaving New York either.

[Ninjawho]

Psh. W/e.

DiStefano is the same man that scoffed when Brad broke the story initially. It took him days, maybe even weeks to admit it was an actual proposal. He hears "rumors" from his sources all the time and these same people told him it wasn't going to happen, that there wasn't even a proposal. So he can go fly a kite as far as I'm concerned.

Would I like the NFL here? Hell yes. But I don't believe anything he says good or bad.

[CrazyFinger]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

I don't see how WSC could possibly do that.

A) The Market Street subway is city property. The city doesn't have that kind of cash.

B) The Subway is leased to SEPTA. SEPTA isn't going to commit that kind of money to something that big right now between the MSE project and the acquisition of new railcars.

C) Anything of that nature is wayyyyyyyy beyond the jurisdiction of a private entity. As ambitious as this whole project is, this company has never developed anything of this scale before. Adding a subway station, while nice, is kind of wearing too many hats for them.

I came across this on PhillyBlog as well - The El will not be re-routed and station construction would be a major physical undertaking, requiring a realignment of the current four track configuration of the subway and widening of the tunnel possibly encroaching on property lines and I don't know if eminent domain can be claimed on skyscraper sub-basements.

I'd love to see it happen (it would be quite convenient for me) but it doesn't look possible right now to me. And personally if I were placing the station I would make 19th Street a transfer station - it's a convergence point for several bus routes and kind of a center point between the Rittenhouse Square area and the Parkway area, north to south. Since ACC would rise on 19th Street anyway, bringing the concourse down there to Market would work too (on paper, anyway).

The only section of Market Street Subway tunnel owned by the city is the section between 24th street and 45th street. The whole el between 46th and 69th and the subway from 24th to 2nd street is owned by SEPTA. The Frankford el and also the entire Broad Street subway is owned by the city.

I don't see how there can be a subway stop opened for this building on Market Street since this building will have an Arch Street address. I guess they would need to build a 2 block concourse.

[Ninjawho]

A two block concourse isn't so unbelievable for a building of this size and importance...

its possible...

likely? we'll see...

[America 117]

WOW
This is really great.
Im really happy for philadelphia!

[excel]

sick height for philly. looks sorta like freedom tower tho. jk.

philly is gangster.

[Ltrain]

Originally Posted by excel

philly is gangster.

A little more than I think we'd like to be with all the violence the last few years.

[CrazyFinger]

Someone should tell the residents of KH that at one time, their neighborhood was made up of working class rowhomes, which were torn down to make their trendy neighborhood possible. These hard working folks did not have a Vince Fumo as an ally, they were just thrown out on the street.... all for progress... to make way for the BF Parkway. They had no political clout, all they had was their homes, and these were lost without any form of financial recoup. At least the people at KH are not being relocated.... I have no sympathy for them. The one lady made me crack up, she stated "Let's turn Logan Square into Philly's version of Soho and Greenwich Village" Umm, Philly already has it's own version of Soho and the Village.... They are called South Street(Queen Village) and S.13th Street(The Gayborhood).... Whatever. I am really surprised Rendell would make the statement he did.

This is so typical for this city.... Like the young lady said... "we need to be known for more than bell with a crack in it". I also loved how she took thoses blue hairs down a notch.

[Plokoon11]

Wow, this project is supa tall!

[Swinefeld]

Originally Posted by CrazyFinger

Someone should tell the residents of KH that at one time, their neighborhood was made up of working class rowhomes, which were torn down to make their trendy neighborhood possible. These hard working folks did not have a Vince Fumo as an ally, they were just thrown out on the street.... all for progress... to make way for the BF Parkway. They had no political clout, all they had was their homes, and these were lost without any form of financial recoup. At least the people at KH are not being relocated.... I have no sympathy for them. The one lady made me crack up, she stated "Let's turn Logan Square into Philly's version of Soho and Greenwich Village" Umm, Philly already has it's own version of Soho and the Village.... They are called South Street(Queen Village) and S.13th Street(The Gayborhood).... Whatever. I am really surprised Rendell would make the statement he did.

This is so typical for this city.... Like the young lady said... "we need to be known for more than bell with a crack in it". I also loved how she took thoses blue hairs down a notch.

Ha! She left them all pretty speechless. There should be another public meeting in a month or so. As soon as I get word I'll pass it along.

[McBane]

I've made that point countless times...all the people who live near the parkway and count it as the reason they live in their neighborhood and then NIMBY every proposal over 4 floors are clueless to the fact that thousands of people were uprooted from their homes to make way for the Parkway. Now, while we feel bad that it was done in this manner, the fact is, the city as a whole, is MUCH better off having a world class boulevard full of museums than a bunch of rowhomes. People fail to see the big picture. If they could get their heads out of their asses, they would realize what a huge opportunity the ACC is for the entire city. And it's not just an immediate benefit - it will benefit the city for generations to come, long after the NIMBYs are dead and gone.

But anyway, what did Rendell say? Was there some sort of public forum regarding the ACC? Details?

[CrazyFinger]

Originally Posted by djvandrake

Darn right! The view from the top of the Hancock Tower in Chicago will set you back $14. Obs Decks can be big money makers in a city with substantial tourist traffic.

Screw that... Just take your girlfriend with you up to the restuartant and have her gaurd the door to the ladies room while you look out the window.... Best view in the entire city.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by CrazyFinger

Screw that... Just take your girlfriend with you up to the restuartant and have her gaurd the door to the ladies room while you look out the window.... Best view in the entire city.

my brother got married up there. excellent place for a wedding. during the reception, the window washing gondolla passed by our ballroom, and a huge cheer arose from the drunken crowd at the spectacle. then we went upstairs one flight to watch the fireworks (it was July 3, which is when Chicago does their fireworks.)
too bad the bitch wound up cheating on my brother and they got divorced. but great memories of the wedding itself if not the marriage.

[Don098]

I have a question about LEED certification...do you have to have a glass curtain in order to attain the desirable amount of light? With the Comcast Center, the Cira Center (and perhaps Cira Center South), and the Residences at the Ritz Carleton, I'm worried that another glass curtain is going to look beat. I would love to see some more exterior design elements...the spire isn't going to be glass as well, is it????

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by Don098

I have a question about LEED certification...do you have to have a glass curtain in order to attain the desirable amount of light? With the Comcast Center, the Cira Center (and perhaps Cira Center South), and the Residences at the Ritz Carleton, I'm worried that another glass curtain is going to look beat. I would love to see some more exterior design elements...the spire isn't going to be glass as well, is it????

I hate to break the news to you but, all glass adds more light and makes the building more energy efficient.

If you don't like it, don't look at it.

[Don098]

Originally Posted by fish

I hate to break the news to you but, all glass adds more light and makes the building more energy efficient.

If you don't like it, don't look at it.

Well duh, I already knew that...

I'm talking about if it needs to be an uninterrupted glass curtain or not. Could there be external design elements along the floor breaks to break up the monotony?

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by Don098

Well duh, I already knew that...

I'm talking about if it needs to be an uninterrupted glass curtain or not. Could there be external design elements along the floor breaks to break up the monotony?

The elements between the floors could be make of stone or other material.

In fact, it could be simply made out of color glass.

I would love to see an aluminum facade myself with dark tint windows.

[bellabeagle]

What are peoples opinions on the percentage chance of this project happening??

My feelings >>> 65%