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  #5761  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2008, 8:39 AM
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How about some long-term vision here? A new stadium with a capacity of 35-45,000 would be ideal to meet the long-term needs of this team. It may be more than we need right at the moment perhaps, however, it could be expandable (say initially 35, then to 40, then to 45). I think an average attendance of 35,000 is quite reasonable with the team's current fortunes. The doubling of capacity of the stadium for important events is myopic; the cost savings from no longer renting temporary seating would pay for itself in the long run.

And I hate to say it as it is impossible to beat the atmosphere at Taylor Field, but an indoor stadium sunken part-way into the ground (between Saskatchewan and Dewdney?) is probably the best design for this climate. It remains a truly viable facility year round to host concerts and other events. I believe it would have at least an indirect impact on all Reginans in the economic benefits produced by the generation of new events. We would be much better able to compete with Saskatoon for events that require additional seating than Brandt Centre can supply.

I agree with the public matching private funding. Lets face it here. Government necessitates astounding amounts of bureaucracy and the associated wasted money. A stadium project of $80-100 million is peanuts compared to what has been wasted since Taylor Field was built in the 20s.

The blog seemed very speculative and I would challenge many of its assumptions. At the same time, many of my views expressed here are somewhat speculative as well. However, I think sinking millions into an aging facility may be the greatest waste of all.
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  #5762  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2008, 2:34 PM
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I would love to see a new stadium, that would show the rest of the country that Regina and Saskatchewan is a major player not only in the CFL but in the business world. Nothing gets the attention of the rest of the country more than big development. I have friends around the country that call and ask is Regina really getting an IMF and is the Upgrader really going to be expanding by a billion dollars. Investment of any kind spurs more investment.
With the Riders and the province doing so well the time to build new is now, Taylor Field will not last forever and when the cracks appear half way through a season and the building is unsafe to use, then what do we do?

As far as building a stadium financing should come from all levels of government as well as the private sector. I for one am not concerned if some of my tax dollars go to a new stadium. I have seen my tax dollars blown on Spudco and that pulp mill in P.A just to name a few off the top of my head.... and these ventures cost us hundreds of millions. Those ventures were of no benefit to anyone as they went under so you can't even say that even a few jobs were created.

As for Taylor Field I don't believe that much money has been pumped into it over the years. When the upper deck went on for the 79 season I believe the cost was only a couple million. That was the most expensive upgrade to the building in it's existance. So if we aren't going to get a new stadium I hope that the powers that be will stop talking and get to work on upgrading what we have. Material and labour is not getting any cheaper, look at Moose Jaw all the debating over the new arena, the cost has doubled on that proposed project and in only 3 short years.
     
     
  #5763  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2008, 12:11 PM
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Stopped by Regina the other day driving to my new job, finally got to lay eyes on what the Downtown discussion's been about lately.







The pedway between Conexus and FCC is quite well setback from the 12 Av and Hamilton St corner - I was kind of worried it was going to block the sculpture when I heard about it.







The Leader building looks like it's coming along. It's great that the "Leader Building" detail was so well-preserved behind the previous facades. Hopefully this will turn out well; the rendering is kind of dull at streetfront, but at least it's consistent with the building character.



That parkade wall, a parkade wall as it is, actually looks salvageable. It seems like a neat concept:





Of course actual storefronts or a patio would've been appropriate over a parkade, but it could actually turn out pretty neat with real trees along Broad St. Are they putting some on the north wall too, facing the alley? The view of the north wall by southbound traffic (which, of course, will be actually more visible to passing cars than the east wall) definitely needs more than just that paint job.



The bus station across the street looks promising - I can't say I've ever seen many bus stations, but I think ours will look great:



And of course:





Well. I guess it pretty much speaks for itself. Terrible. I didn't realise how deeply set back they made that parking lot - I was hoping if they were going to the trouble of building the parkade in back, they would try to minimise the front lot and preserve the street face. Poor show.

A while ago someone posted a construction photo of a bank on the Vic Av E strip, with a glass box that I thought would've been a better choice Downtown. I still think so:







It's got glass, and real stone, even on the back walls facing the access road! Kudos to TCU for putting some effort into their building. Kind of harkens back to the days when banks built proper structures to convey a sense of stability and trust to customers. If I were there I'd think of switching my BMO accounts (and their crappy strip mall branch I have to use) to TCU, just for the design.



And there's that new Chili's, buried under the Vic Av E traffic, joining the East Side Mario's and Houston Pizza etc. Sucks that the City doesn't just make Downtown the new "restaurant destination" instead of the east end. Imagine the patio scene that Regina could've had, say on Hamilton St/Broad St/11 Av, if they built restaurants there instead of Broad St Crossing.

Also, the condos by the Kinsmen garden:





The original rendering specified some stonework and masonry mosaic/pattern work, but apparently the developer de-contented the project:



Too bad, it was such a great location, and the blank wall facing Regina Av would've been perfect for some integrated facade art. Being next to the park, a design bylaw could've been used to enforce a proper standard. Would've just been a matter of using different coloured tiles, no actual increased material cost. Hopefully everyone who bought into it based on the original plan won't be too mad - or, hopefully they will, and they'll come up with some design additions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SASKFTW View Post
How do you Regina members feel about the following blog entry...

Source

Granted it's the Taxpayers Federation, but do Reginan's feel money could be better spent elsewhere in the city on other cultural and recreational that will have a more direct impact on Reginan's.

If I lived in Regina I'd probably be all for a new stadium, but not at the expense of other facilities/commitments.
I posted something similar earlier - the City's report and that blog entry are consistent with what's already been proven in the US, that government investment in professional sports facilities benefit only the teams, but not the community or taxpayers at large. There's many other essential services with definite wider benefits that would be better choices for a big capital investment, eg water treatment, schools, transit.

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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
When people think of Regina, they think of the Riders. So a blog report by the Canadian taxpayers association does little to sway the majority of folks whom think Canada's Team should have a home that reflects its reputation from coast to coast. Cities all around the world have quality stadiums, why shouldn't the home of the most popular CFL franchise?
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Originally Posted by skphc08 View Post
Lets face it here. Government necessitates astounding amounts of bureaucracy and the associated wasted money. A stadium project of $80-100 million is peanuts compared to what has been wasted since Taylor Field was built in the 20s.
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Originally Posted by darthrider View Post
I for one am not concerned if some of my tax dollars go to a new stadium. I have seen my tax dollars blown on Spudco and that pulp mill in P.A just to name a few off the top of my head.... and these ventures cost us hundreds of millions. Those ventures were of no benefit to anyone as they went under so you can't even say that even a few jobs were created.
None of these points change the fact that a publicly-funded stadium won't actually benefit the public. Just because the Government made bad investments in the past doesn't mean you should encourage them to waste more - it means they should be more careful, not less.

I think among these posts there's just a misunderstanding of the point of government and taxation and public funding: it's not to pay for things that people simply want, but what they need and would actually benefit from. Even if a majority of people wanted it, a responsible government would have to reject funding something of no or little proven benefit.

Like the original blog says, "it's the Roughriders, their corporate sponsors, and their fans (like me) who would benefit the most from a stadium expansion, and, therefore, should bear the burden of the costs involved".

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrider View Post
ISo if we aren't going to get a new stadium I hope that the powers that be will stop talking and get to work on upgrading what we have. Material and labour is not getting any cheaper, look at Moose Jaw all the debating over the new arena, the cost has doubled on that proposed project and in only 3 short years.
The best time to build would actually be not now, but at the next recession, when there's less heat on the construction industry and labour will be cheaper to get. (Actually, if construction unemployment shot up and Government needed to act, a new stadium would be a great make-work project - now that could be a worthwhile use of public funds.)

Speaking of questionable uses of government funds:





That free wireless Internet service Downtown - it really works! I question whether it's actually delivered any important public benefit though. Businesspeople would already have email on their Blackberries, and cafes and stores would offer wireless themselves if they thought it would improve business. I guess workers who want to visit YouTube or facebook (or skyscraperpage) when their office blocks it on the company Internet can get around using the government service instead.

Last edited by caveat.doctor; Jul 20, 2008 at 12:50 PM.
     
     
  #5764  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 4:21 AM
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Just saw Hopson talking on the news, and apparently it's almost completely finalized... there will be a couple extra thousand seats at Taylor Field within about a months time, and possibly remaining up for the remainder of the year.

They'll be a decent quality too... numbered seating (as opposed to rush), bathrooms, and concessions.
     
     
  #5765  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 4:31 AM
saskdave saskdave is offline
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Riders

Quote:
Originally Posted by SASKFTW View Post
How do you Regina members feel about the following blog entry...


Source

Granted it's the Taxpayers Federation, but do Reginan's feel money could be better spent elsewhere in the city on other cultural and recreational that will have a more direct impact on Reginan's.

If I lived in Regina I'd probably be all for a new stadium, but not at the expense of other facilities/commitments.

If enough funding and support exists for both a new stadium and enhanced city-wide cultural and recreation facilities then by all means go all in.

At least the upgrades at Mosaic are going ahead, right?


As a Rider fan I would love to see a better stadium which could be used for other events but I would expect everyone to put $$$ on the table (fans, the team, business, all levels of gov't) and to keep it realistic.

I do find the "lack of a wide recreation benefit" argument a little weak - you build soccer fields for people who enjoy playing or watching soccer, same thing with community pools, etc. Well, approx. 30,000 people go to a Rider game and probably 20,000 (at least) are from Regina. That is about 10% of the city population and that is before you times that by 10 games a year. I bet no other "recreation" activity in the city attracts 10% of the city population at a time and 200,000 over the course of a season...seems like a fairly wide impact to me...??

Dave
     
     
  #5766  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 6:30 AM
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^ Parkade wall on the west side of Broad Street betwen 11th Avenue and Saskatchewan Drive:

When did artistic disability become an employment equity option?
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  #5767  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by babo View Post
^ Parkade wall on the west side of Broad Street betwen 11th Avenue and Saskatchewan Drive:

When did artistic disability become an employment equity option?
I completely agree. That mural is a complete disgrace and an embarrassment! I had a lot of hope when Broad Street Crossing was announced. The developer and the city had an opportunity to do something innovative and inspiring, but instead they opted to go with a three story box and a concrete slab that covers half a city block. The city and the developer should be ashamed. City council, and the mayor have shown time and time again that they have no vision, and no intention of demanding more from developers. It will be very interesting to see what happens when Office For Urbanism tables their report later this summer. Once the city and developers realize they might actually have to invest some money for the plan to become viable, I'm sure the report will be filed in the garbage, like the last downtown renewal plan was in the 1990s. Even Regina Downtown has moved its office from the heart of downtown to Albert and Sask Drive. Maybe next year they'll decide it's best to be located in the east end of the city, so people don't have to worry about finding parking.

That's my rant for the month
     
     
  #5768  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 6:21 PM
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holy crap people, the mural isn't even finished! And I believe none of the plants/shrubs have even been planted.
     
     
  #5769  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 8:06 PM
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And a ridiculous rant it was. Regina Downtown moved their offices because their office space was needed for a tenant looking to expand in the downtown. They moved to promote growth. Last time I checked, their new location at Sask Drive and Smith St is still downtown.

If we look at development in Regina, there has not been an opportunity to be picky about development until recently. We have to remember that the Broad Street Crossing project has been in the works since 2004 when the previous City Council this developer an option on the land. The existing building sat vacant for 10 or so years before that.

Is Broad Street Crossing the best development in the city?....Not at all, but in a time when Regina was seeing little to no economic growth in the downtown core, the mayor and council had little choice but to approve the development.

As far as the mural goes.....it is being painted by a very accomplished artist...and I am sure it will look very good when done. Why is everyone so quick to judge? I DOUBT ANY OF YOU COULD DO ANYTHING BETTER!
     
     
  #5770  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 8:54 PM
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And a ridiculous rant it was. Regina Downtown moved their offices because their office space was needed for a tenant looking to expand in the downtown. They moved to promote growth. Last time I checked, their new location at Sask Drive and Smith St is still downtown.

If we look at development in Regina, there has not been an opportunity to be picky about development until recently. We have to remember that the Broad Street Crossing project has been in the works since 2004 when the previous City Council this developer an option on the land. The existing building sat vacant for 10 or so years before that.

Is Broad Street Crossing the best development in the city?....Not at all, but in a time when Regina was seeing little to no economic growth in the downtown core, the mayor and council had little choice but to approve the development.

As far as the mural goes.....it is being painted by a very accomplished artist...and I am sure it will look very good when done. Why is everyone so quick to judge? I DOUBT ANY OF YOU COULD DO ANYTHING BETTER!
Talk about ridiculous, Are you saying that City Council and the Mayor had no choice but to approve Broad Street Crossing?? They had all the power in the world to direct the developer to make changes that would have benefited the downtown.

The attached parking structure was not part of the original plan as I recall, and was approved well into the Office For Urbanism's planning. Regardless of who is painting that mural, nothing is going to make that eyesore of a parking structure look any better. Putting a couple cedar trees in front of it is not going to mask it. There were a ton of different options the developer could have gone with. All you need to do is take a look at the Office For Urbanism presentations they've put together to see some examples. .

It sounds to me that your suggesting Regina should settle for whatever it can get, and be happy. Perhaps people should start demanding more from their city administration and developers, regardless of the economic conditions.
     
     
  #5771  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 9:05 PM
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The stone work has started on the front of the Western Pizza on Vic and Broad. It is going to look fantastic!! That is the type of exterior that the downtown needs on it's buildings... not stucco.
     
     
  #5772  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 11:10 PM
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Is the rooftop patio being fenced in or will you be able to see people dining on the roof from the street?
     
     
  #5773  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
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Is the rooftop patio being fenced in or will you be able to see people dining on the roof from the street?
It looks like it will be glassed in, so you should be able to see people dining up there.
     
     
  #5774  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 3:03 AM
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It looks like it will be glassed in, so you should be able to see people dining up there.
Crave still has the outdoor patio infront, doesn't it? I think they've done a nice job of creating streetscrape. Between Crave and the new Westerns and the success of O'Hanlons on Scarth, we're slowly getting some interesting options downtown.
     
     
  #5775  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 3:26 AM
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Don't forget about Beer Brothers. Love it!
     
     
  #5776  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by saskdave View Post
As a Rider fan I would love to see a better stadium which could be used for other events but I would expect everyone to put $$$ on the table (fans, the team, business, all levels of gov't) and to keep it realistic.

I do find the "lack of a wide recreation benefit" argument a little weak - you build soccer fields for people who enjoy playing or watching soccer, same thing with community pools, etc. Well, approx. 30,000 people go to a Rider game and probably 20,000 (at least) are from Regina. That is about 10% of the city population and that is before you times that by 10 games a year. I bet no other "recreation" activity in the city attracts 10% of the city population at a time and 200,000 over the course of a season...seems like a fairly wide impact to me...??

Dave
Watching a game isn´t recreation... playing one is. I don´t see Mosaic Stadium being used for anything more than Rams games and Rider games. I don´t think we need a new stadium now and hopefully by the time we do there will be development plans in place for the rail yard which would totally rule out anybody even thinking of putting a stadium there.
     
     
  #5777  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 1:16 PM
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holy crap people, the mural isn't even finished! And I believe none of the plants/shrubs have even been planted.
A turd can be polished repeatedly. In the end, it's still a turd. This is nothing more than a "monolithic" single-storey piece of concrete.
Quote:
Oh, look, someone painted it green, wait, no, maybe, yes, no, is that "art"? Oh wait, there's been an attempt to now hide it the monstrosity behind some trees and shrubs. OMG, it will be so real looking, the wonderful sense of 3D brought about by the juxtaposition of organic offset from the 2D blandness of a green painted wall. I'll believe that by walking past it, I'm out in the country instead of on Broad Street.
:/

Still looks like a "monolithic" single-storey piece of concrete. Painted green. Hidden behind trees and shrubs. The only way it could be saved is by ... it can't.

I agreed with the reuse of the Army & Navy building because the structure is likely rock solid. I never envisioned the eye sore that someone could have made that corner out to be. I'd have much rather the Army & Navy building remain vacant now. When you have the wonderful Love Plus parking lot across the street, you don't have to aim very high for people to interpret development as improvement.

Last edited by babo; Jul 23, 2008 at 2:22 PM. Reason: Grammar is my enemy.
     
     
  #5778  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 3:23 PM
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urbanregina, I can't see the railyards ever being a serious possibility for a new stadium site. The land is simply too valuable.

As for the mural, at least they are trying to do something. Personally, I think it's better than a stark concrete wall. The building is there and that's not going to change. They aren't going to rip it down. It's there for long term. I think it'll be better once the cedars are added. Maybe it's not ideal, but it's a little too late to get it changed now.

Has anyone been out much today to see if there's much damage around the city from last night's storms?

Last edited by StealthGirl; Jul 23, 2008 at 4:05 PM.
     
     
  #5779  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 8:53 PM
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Don't forget about Beer Brothers. Love it!
Me too! It is awesome, and has a great downtown feel! Reminds me of Stephen St in Calgary.
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  #5780  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 8:58 PM
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I agree with those who do not like the mural on the concrete arm jutting out of the back of Broad St Crossing. First of all, it is a two storey concrete slab randomly attached to a stucco building??? The $10 000 they are probably paying the artist could have been spent on hiring a better (real) architect firm. I am all for public art....but not as an excuse to good building design. You are right, we are going to have to live with it for years, but we dont have to like it and we cant let it happen again!

I hope the city does not dismiss the Office for Urbanism. I hop that after the amount of public participation in the project, council will be held responsible for carrying out the plan.
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