Quote:
Originally Posted by Greavsie
nonsense
|
Nonsense? I've just had a look, and the vast majority of surviving Catholic church records in Ireland start between 1820 and 1850. That's very recent. That means most people with Irish ancestry will probably not be able to go much further back in time than 1820.
In France, for example, the majority of surviving Catholic church records start in the 1670s-1680s.
In Spain, if they haven't been destroyed during the Spanish Civil War, the church records usually start in the 1560s-1580s.
The reason the church records in Ireland are not very ancient is because of the penal laws enforced by the English in Ireland, which heavily restricted the Catholic Church. Priests often operated underground, and did not collect baptisms, marriages, and burials records for safety reasons. It's only with the Roman Catholic Relief Act of 1829 that the Catholic church could operate openly once again, and the practice of recording births, marriages, and burials was started in earnest.
In Catholic countries not under Protestant occupation, the Council of Trent in the 16th century made it mandatory for priests to record the baptisms, marriages, and burials. In France, this recommendation was badly enforced, both due to the weakness of the royal authorities and to the civil wars that affected the country in the 16th and early 17th century. It's only when Louis XIV restored peace and unity, and started his personal reign (in 1660) that a modern French administration was put in place, and the priests were more severally required to register the births, marriages, and burials (BMB). The French royal administration was also unique in Europe in requesting 2 copies of each BMB books (one to be kept in the parish, the other to be sent to the local law court), as early as the 1670s. In the French colonies, they even requested a 3rd copy to be sent to Paris for record keeping (that's why we still have BMB books from French Guiana, Haiti or Martinique from the 1670s which have long since rotten and been eaten by insects in those tropical places, but the 3rd copy is kept intact in Paris).
That's why, in most cases, you can usually find parish archives since at least the 1670s-1680s in France (metropolitan and overseas territories alike).
In Spain, where the royal authority was much stronger than in France in the 16th century, and where they suppressed Protestantism early and did not suffer from religious wars, the recommendations from the Council of Trent were enforced immediately, that's why usually their parish registers start in the 1560s-1580s. But unlike France, Spain declined after the 17th century, their administration became inefficient, they never requested a 2nd copy of the BMB book, and they did not create a civil registration like France did in 1792, so until the very end of the 19th century they only had BMB books, and only 1 copy (kept in the parish). If that copy was destroyed, then the entire records from that parish are destroyed (whereas if the parish copy was destroyed in France, then the law court's copy would still remain, or vice versa). Also, unlike France they never forced the Catholic Church to relinquish their BMB books and entrust them to secular archives. During the Spanish Civil War, the Republicans attacked and burned many churches in Spain. The churches still kept the BMB books, so a lot of BMB books were destroyed in 1936. In cities like Barcelona and Valencia, nearly all the churches were burnt in 1936, so that means nearly all the church records since the 16th century have disappeared. They don't have records older than 1939. In cities that were taken by the Nationalists on the 1st day of the civil war, like Seville, the churches were preserved, and the BMB books still exist, and go back to the 1560s.
So Spain is a hit and miss: either you find everything up to the mid-16th century, or you have nothing before 1939. In France, in nearly 98% of places you can find the church records going back to the late 17th century, because there were 2 copies, so at least one always survived. But in most places, you won't find church records before the 1660s (except in cities where the church records usually start in the 16th century, but in the countryside it's rarely older than 1660s).
Prev
Linear Mode
