Winnipeg | Downtown | Portage Place | Redevelopment | U/C

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Urban stores usually have a markup due to higher land and rent costs etc. It's a pretty normal trade-off in downtowns of price vs convenience.

People typically drive to the big, high-volume low-price places like Superstore. A person living downtown won't need a car to go shop at this Co-op. Saving $$ by not needing a car is one of the major reasons people choose urban living. Paying a few extra bucks for your produce isn't a huge deal if you're saving $800 per month on car payment, insurance, gas, etc. Speaking of produce, it sucks at Superstore and those cheapo places.

Also 20% sounds straight made-up.

I honestly don't see a major difference in produce quality between those places for the most part. I find that certain things are better at one or the other. To be clear however, the quality is certainly lesser and I am generally unimpressed with produce quality at Winnipeg grocers. I spend a fair amount of time in Chicago and their grocery stores (at least the ones I frequent) seem to have much fresher produce and a greater selection generally, which isn't surprising given Chicago's status as a world city, but still, you'd think Winnipeg could manage a little better. Even specialty grocers here I find don't really have a ton of selection or significantly different things than I might find at a superstore for instance.

[TRiToNDREyJA]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Correct, a 300 Main sibling.

I never saw that newer SketchUp model + render set, fascinating

[ColdRain&Snow]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

You also have to wonder how Osborne village has persisted all these years without a proper grocery store. I mean sure, they have Safeway for the wealthy elites, but where do regular people get their groceries in the village????

Lol no kidding. Sure, Co-Op and Safeway are more expensive then Superstore or Walmart. But if you're single or a childless couple it's pretty easy to live car-free or at least car-light in Winnipeg. I live in Osborne Village and walk to work now. I have a vehicle but only drive about twice per week to visit my parents. I'm saving thousands of dollars per year on reduce gas, vehicle maintenance, and depreciation compared to when I used to drive 30 minutes each way to work. I'm saving about $2200 per year on gas alone. Plus about another $1000 per year in maintenance. Vehicle depreciation is hard to calculate, but I'm doing about 5000 km per year now compared to about 20,000 km per year before. So I'm probably saving around $2000 per year in vehicle depreciation. All together, that's around $5000 per year I'm saving just by driving less. I would be saving even more if I had to pay for parking at my last job. I spend around $300 per month on groceries, so if shopped at Walmart instead and saved 20%, then I would be saving $60/month or $720/year. So the reality is that just by driving less I can easily afford to spend a bit extra on groceries.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Anyone trying to claim Co-op isn’t a legitimate grocery store is trying to justify their own assertions that turned out to be wrong.

I shop at either coop at Grant Park or Safeway on Osborne and I see no difference. They all cost the same. What grocery store could have opened that was “affordable”? They don’t exist.

Suggesting that Co-op closing in 1983 has some bearing on their current business model is really funny. Ok ok. So I was dead wrong about a grocery store opening downtown but you guys remember 40 years ago when they closed? Yeah that could happen again so I’ll probably be right eventually.

Of the three Winnipeg stores Coop took over they closed one of them and before you claim they were forced out by a landlord I would point out that exact same property has been sitting empty for a couple years and they could make a deal to take it back over if it was such a success. In the 12 years since they have opened only one additional store in Winnipeg. They have taken over some rural stores but that was basically a desperation move as the federated coop was looking for their own exit. Take Gimli as an example were they took the more popular local store and have essentially run it into the ground through their lack of investment in the store.

I have seen others comment how they are having challenges with their Winnipeg stores. I've been in a few of them at different times and there is no motivation for me to seek them out. I have already seen lots of people commenting about how Coop is widely known for having higher prices than others, a fact that happens from not being a major player were you can make deals with suppliers. There are also many people observing how the high theft and crime rate downtown has driven most businesses out of the area and that it will likely be an issue for Coop. Are people going to be willing to pay for higher value theft items at a service counter separate from the rest of their groceries?

It is also somewhat concerning that this project is announced now but going to take three years to open. Building a grocery store, especially in an existing retail space, should not take three years. There feels like a higher level of risk that this never opens as a result.

[drew]

Urban stores usually have a markup due to higher land and rent costs etc. It's a pretty normal trade-off in downtowns of price vs convenience.

People typically drive to the big, high-volume low-price places like Superstore. A person living downtown won't need a car to go shop at this Co-op. Saving $$ by not needing a car is one of the major reasons people choose urban living. Paying a few extra bucks for your produce isn't a huge deal if you're saving $800 per month on car payment, insurance, gas, etc. Speaking of produce, it sucks at Superstore and those cheapo places.

Also 20% sounds straight made-up.

^ I was arguing the point about all grocery stores costing the same. They don't. 20% is 100% made up. But based on my experience - it's pretty close. I was in Sobey's about a week ago - and it was almost comical how expensive EVERYTHING was, and a shit selection to boot. And this was a suburban store - not a "walkable" area.

Unless you are paying for the convenience of where a store is located - which makes sense for a store in say Osborne Village or Downtown.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

I shop at Superstore (mostly) but also at the Co-op at Grant Park and the Sobey's and Walmart on Taylor occasionally on small shops or to pick up one-off items.

Prices at Superstore and Walmart are comparable and prices at the Co-op and Sobey's are comparable (but definitely higher on most items than Superstore and Walmart).

If anything, I find the selection of ready made stuff, unique specialty items and produce quite a bit better at Co-op than Sobey's. The comment that Co-op isn't a real grocery store is a joke.

[cllew]

1441 Main St. is currently listed as a sublet from Giant Tiger.

Maybe Coop is waiting for the GT lease to expire at the end of 2029 and make the owner a lower offer to rent it out.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by drew

^ I was arguing the point about all grocery stores costing the same. They don't. 20% is 100% made up. But based on my experience - it's pretty close. I was in Sobey's about a week ago - and it was almost comical how expensive EVERYTHING was, and a shit selection to boot. And this was a suburban store - not a "walkable" area.

Unless you are paying for the convenience of where a store is located - which makes sense for a store in say Osborne Village or Downtown.

Did you happen to be at the Sobeys on Warde/Dakota. Their selection there is trash, and the freshness is... questionable.

I have found that Sobeys/safeway has declined in the existing stores quite a lot. The newer one in sage creek is decent. Save On is also comically expensive and the name is thinly veiled marketing.

In any event, my experience with the Co-ops generally has been that their quality is a little better than safeway/sobeys and the shopping experience tends to be a little bit more pleasant. Totally legitimate grocer. That said, I am a person that thinks that the Food Fare is a legit grocer.

Speaking of which, what the hell would the litmus test even be? Ability to be part of a rewards system? Square footage? Selection? Someone help me understand why Co-op is not legit.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is also somewhat concerning that this project is announced now but going to take three years to open. Building a grocery store, especially in an existing retail space, should not take three years. There feels like a higher level of risk that this never opens as a result.

Just admit you were wrong, man. Co-op is a normal grocery store. Nobody thinks otherwise.

It’s taking three years because they don’t want to open in a building that’s under construction.

[trueviking]

I do agree that wal-mart is cheaper than other grocery stores, but no grocer can be labelled as an “affordable” option. If people are going to complain about that.

Co-op is the only grocery store that sends me a $200 cheque every year.

[Wpg_Guy]

• Video Link

[bomberjet]

I thought it was obvious that the 2029 opening of the grocery store coincides with the general mall reno completion date.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I thought it was obvious that the 2029 opening of the grocery store coincides with the general mall reno completion date.

Yes, there is clearly substantial investment required in the Centre Block before any grocery store build-out can begin.

Based on this rendering — which may be entirely conceptual — it appears that a portion of the ceiling will be opened up to the second level of the mall.

[cllew]

If this store is going in the old Staples location it appears the grocery and pharmacy will be a smaller footprint than the old Safeway Coop took over in Southdale.

Google searches say the new store will be 29,000 sq ft in Portage Place vs 48,000 sq ft in Southdale and 57,000 sq ft at Grant Park.

A 2018 Free Press article said at that time Coop if they were building brand new stores they would be looking at around 35,000 sq ft. That is the size of the Outlet Mall Store that opened in 2021,

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by cllew

If this store is going in the old Staples location it appears the grocery and pharmacy will be a smaller footprint than the old Safeway Coop took over in Southdale.

Google searches say the new store will be 29,000 sq ft in Portage Place vs 48,000 sq ft in Southdale and 57,000 sq ft at Grant Park.

A 2018 Free Press article said at that time Coop if they were building brand new stores they would be looking at around 35,000 sq ft. That is the size of the Outlet Mall Store that opened in 2021,

Yes it will be smaller than their other stores.

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

The store will be located in the Portage Avenue-facing space once occupied by Staples.

It’ll be smaller than a typical Co-op — the supermarkets in Grant Park Shopping Centre and off Dakota Street are 55,000 sq. ft. — so the downtown departments will be “a little tighter,” Gilpin said.

Co-op hasn’t designed the space yet. The company expects to take possession in 2028, based on True North’s timelines. Gilpin estimated the company will spend more than $10 million on the new site.

True North has embedded a tenant construction allowance into its lease, Gilpin said, declining to give further details. He didn’t say how long Co-op’s lease would be, other than “for a long time.”

Winnipeg Free Press

[Malcsta]

Really exciting comments from the Mayor.

In addition to the St. Regis site, there was also talk 6 or 7 months ago roughly about a tower development that was in the early stages. It might've been mentioned by someone overhearing a meeting where it brought up (don't quote me on that). Maybe we'll hear news soon

I'd imagine the Mayor is ahead of the curve when it comes to that sort of thing. Oh to be a fly on the wall in his office.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Malcsta

Really exciting comments from the Mayor.

In addition to the St. Regis site, there was also talk 6 or 7 months ago roughly about a tower development that was in the early stages. It might've been mentioned by someone overhearing a meeting where it brought up (don't quote me on that). Maybe we'll hear news soon

I'd imagine the Mayor is ahead of the curve when it comes to that sort of thing. Oh to be a fly on the wall in his office.

You're referencing this:

Originally Posted by trueviking

I was in a meeting today and an engineer let it slip that they are working on a 50 storey tower in Winnipeg. That was all he said. Take it for what it's worth.

[Malcsta]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

You're referencing this:

Damn that was quick.

Yes, that's the one. My memory must be pretty bad, could've sworn it was last fall that I read that.

Regardless.. wonder what the heck that guy was talking about?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by cllew

If this store is going in the old Staples location it appears the grocery and pharmacy will be a smaller footprint than the old Safeway Coop took over in Southdale.

Google searches say the new store will be 29,000 sq ft in Portage Place vs 48,000 sq ft in Southdale and 57,000 sq ft at Grant Park.

A 2018 Free Press article said at that time Coop if they were building brand new stores they would be looking at around 35,000 sq ft. That is the size of the Outlet Mall Store that opened in 2021,

Pharmacy isn’t part of that space.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Malcsta

Damn that was quick.

Yes, that's the one. My memory must be pretty bad, could've sworn it was last fall that I read that.

Regardless.. wonder what the heck that guy was talking about?

If we keep talking about it maybe we can manifest it out of the Warp.