PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The Lansdale/Doylestown Line now gets higher ridership than Paoli/Thorndale.

I had my yearly physical at Mazzoni Center last week on a Monday. I took the train.

The parking lot at Exton was nowhere near full. It's never gotten close to being at pre Covid levels. That is probably why the numbers have fallen off. In fact almost every station lot along the way is not full like they used to be.

The train was mostly full by the time it reached Center City.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

I had my yearly physical at Mazzoni Center last week on a Monday. I took the train.

The parking lot at Exton was nowhere near full. It's never gotten close to being at pre Covid levels. That is probably why the numbers have fallen off. In fact almost every station lot along the way is not full like they used to be.

The train was mostly full by the time it reached Center City.

If that is the case, I wonder why the Lansdale/Doylestown line is seeing higher ridership?

[mcgrath618]

The Lansdale/Doylestown Line is sitting at around 60% ridership recovery for FY 2025 (July 2024-July 2025). The Paoli/Thorndale is sitting around 52% in the same period. This puts them at about the same ridership (they keep jockying back and forth, some months one is higher and some months the other). I'd say that most of the Paoli/Thorndale's commuters were higher up on the totem pole than those on other lines, and have been able to retain WFH days while others are now 4 or 5 days in the office. Lansdale/Doylestown is along communities where a lot of younger professionals are moving, but are maybe earlier in their careers and are coming into the office more days a week. This is my speculation.

The Airport Line, on the other hand, is at 160% 2019 ridership.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The Lansdale/Doylestown Line is sitting at around 60% ridership recovery for FY 2025 (July 2024-July 2025). The Paoli/Thorndale is sitting around 52% in the same period. This puts them at about the same ridership (they keep jockying back and forth, some months one is higher and some months the other). I'd say that most of the Paoli/Thorndale's commuters were higher up on the totem pole than those on other lines, and have been able to retain WFH days while others are now 4 or 5 days in the office. Lansdale/Doylestown is along communities where a lot of younger professionals are moving, but are maybe earlier in their careers and are coming into the office more days a week. This is my speculation.

The Airport Line, on the other hand, is at 160% 2019 ridership.

That makes a lot of sense given that a lot of the old money is along the Main Line. Though I would have thought all of the new developments in places like Ardmore would have boosted ridership along that line. Towns like Ambler have a little bit of that type of development but not to the same level as the Paoli/Thorndale line or so I thought. I would be curious to see the Manayunk/Norristown lines ridership numbers over the years because from East Falls to Manayunk to Conshohocken those areas are booming. The Airport stat is very interesting, I wonder why that is. Where do you get all the ridership data by route and over the years? I'd love to dig in to that more

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The Lansdale/Doylestown Line is sitting at around 60% ridership recovery for FY 2025 (July 2024-July 2025). The Paoli/Thorndale is sitting around 52% in the same period. This puts them at about the same ridership (they keep jockying back and forth, some months one is higher and some months the other). I'd say that most of the Paoli/Thorndale's commuters were higher up on the totem pole than those on other lines, and have been able to retain WFH days while others are now 4 or 5 days in the office. Lansdale/Doylestown is along communities where a lot of younger professionals are moving, but are maybe earlier in their careers and are coming into the office more days a week. This is my speculation.

The Airport Line, on the other hand, is at 160% 2019 ridership.

I know a few people out here that work for employers in the city...and they never go to the office.

Even where I work at Ellis Preserve in Newtown Square....you see a lot less cars on Mondays and Fridays.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The Lansdale/Doylestown Line is sitting at around 60% ridership recovery for FY 2025 (July 2024-July 2025). The Paoli/Thorndale is sitting around 52% in the same period. This puts them at about the same ridership (they keep jockying back and forth, some months one is higher and some months the other). I'd say that most of the Paoli/Thorndale's commuters were higher up on the totem pole than those on other lines, and have been able to retain WFH days while others are now 4 or 5 days in the office. Lansdale/Doylestown is along communities where a lot of younger professionals are moving, but are maybe earlier in their careers and are coming into the office more days a week. This is my speculation.

The Airport Line, on the other hand, is at 160% 2019 ridership.

The airline line at 160% from pre-covid is interesting. I wonder if it's a combination of 30 minute headways or just more passengers using the line in general. I would think more frequency is good

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

The airline line at 160% from pre-covid is interesting. I wonder if it's a combination of 30 minute headways or just more passengers using the line in general. I would think more frequency is good

I mean, rideshare pricing is bonkers. That certainly doesn't hurt.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

The airline line at 160% from pre-covid is interesting. I wonder if it's a combination of 30 minute headways or just more passengers using the line in general. I would think more frequency is good

I agree that the 30 minute headways on both weekdays and weekends is likely what's helped it.

[domodeez]

Buccini Pollin, University of Delaware aim to fill housing gap with $75M project
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...-delaware-buccini-pollin-apartments.html

I read this article yesterday before it was behind the paywall. It has some good info on BPG’s first apartment building in Newark at the STAR campus (designed by DIGSAU) and also mentions that BPG is working on 44 apartments on Market Street in Wilmington at one of the old DCAD buildings the developer bought after the art school closed.

[PHLtoNYC]

Ardmore's Suburban Square fills up with 13 new tenants, from fitness to fashion
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...s-suburban-square-ardmore-main-line.html

In recent months, 13 new tenants have opened or signed leases at Ardmore’s Suburban Square, adding to the lineup at the popular open-air retail center.

The opening of 131-unit apartment building Coulter Place included 20,000 square feet of retail, making room for eight new tenants, seven of which have been announced. The Main Line shopping center is now fully occupied.

“This is far and away the strongest and healthiest the center has ever been,” MSC Principal Douglas Green said. “We’re seeing more demand than ever at the moment.”

[PHLtoNYC]

Not winning any beauty contests, but it replaces a vacant office building with more housing.

Luxury apartments move ahead at old Montco call center after 6-year process
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...orman-goodman-apartment-development.html

After a six-year process, developers are finally breaking ground on a 274-unit luxury apartment building in Horsham at the site of a former call center that’s been demolished.

Montgomery County developers Korman Communities and Goodman Properties are partnering with New York-based RXR and Tokyo-based Chuo-Nittochi Co. Ltd. to build AVE Horsham, a four-story building at 723 Dresher Road.

[PHLtoNYC]

A big improvement in Downtown Wayne.

Wayne project bringing apartments, steakhouse to prime Lancaster Avenue location
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...on-apartments-restaurants-main-line.html

Berger Development is nearing completion on a development project in a prime location in downtown Wayne that will add 10,000 square feet of commercial space and 24 apartments to the Main Line town.

The residential portion of Berger's Wayne Station project at 150 Lancaster Ave. is 50% pre-leased, with the first move-ins slated for the coming weeks. Strong Pilates, Little Gym of Villanova and a 3,000-square-foot restaurant will be located in the commercial space.

[3rd&Brown]

https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/...et-expressway-neighborhood-20260609.html

"The Philadelphia Office of Transportation and Infrastructure Systems is thinking about the day the project is complete, with preliminary exploration of a possible improvement district in the area to finance operations and maintenance.

“We’ve come to the conclusion that there’s not really a city department or even nonprofit entity that’s ideally placed to take over that maintenance responsibility,” said Christopher Puchalsky, director of policy and strategic initiatives at OTIS."

Good luck getting anyone in Chinatown to agree to pay more for anything. This project is DOA.

"Improvement district assessments range from 1% to 7% in Philadelphia, which would be on top of property taxes. Based on rough back-of-the-envelope math, Puchalsky said, the owner of a $500,000 property would pay $140 a year on top of a $7,000 property tax bill at the lowest end of the range and $300 yearly at the highest end."

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/...et-expressway-neighborhood-20260609.html

"The Philadelphia Office of Transportation and Infrastructure Systems is thinking about the day the project is complete, with preliminary exploration of a possible improvement district in the area to finance operations and maintenance.

“We’ve come to the conclusion that there’s not really a city department or even nonprofit entity that’s ideally placed to take over that maintenance responsibility,” said Christopher Puchalsky, director of policy and strategic initiatives at OTIS."

Good luck getting anyone in Chinatown to agree to pay more for anything. This project is DOA.

"Improvement district assessments range from 1% to 7% in Philadelphia, which would be on top of property taxes. Based on rough back-of-the-envelope math, Puchalsky said, the owner of a $500,000 property would pay $140 a year on top of a $7,000 property tax bill at the lowest end of the range and $300 yearly at the highest end."

As usual, I don't understand these numbers. $1.3 to $3.8 million in annual maintenance/security? $20+ million in design costs?

To be clear, I think capping the Vine is one of the best things the city could do with its money and am not questioning the hypothetical construction cost because I wouldn't know where to begin, but are we hiring a crew of 20 people who work full time doing nothing but maintaining/securing a three block, hundred foot wide park?

[DIESELPOLO]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Not winning any beauty contests, but it replaces a vacant office building with more housing.

Luxury apartments move ahead at old Montco call center after 6-year process
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...orman-goodman-apartment-development.html

After a six-year process, developers are finally breaking ground on a 274-unit luxury apartment building in Horsham at the site of a former call center that’s been demolished.

Montgomery County developers Korman Communities and Goodman Properties are partnering with New York-based RXR and Tokyo-based Chuo-Nittochi Co. Ltd. to build AVE Horsham, a four-story building at 723 Dresher Road.

Legitimately impressed! My urban design question to the township is if pedestrian infrastructure (e.g. sidewalks that are wide enough and feel safe enough) is being implemented to allow people living here to be able to walk to The Promenade (grocery, shopping, restaurants), which is less than half a mile away.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by DIESELPOLO

Legitimately impressed! My urban design question to the township is if pedestrian infrastructure (e.g. sidewalks that are wide enough and feel safe enough) is being implemented to allow people living here to be able to walk to The Promenade (grocery, shopping, restaurants), which is less than half a mile away.

I'd be more impressed if it wasn't in the middle of a parking lot.

That being said, there does seem to be some mixed-use development being developed on Welsh Road. Not sure if that's Horsham or another municipality...

Either way, Montco definitely leading the way. In the next decade or two I could see Montco breaking 1MM people. It would be cool to have a suburban county break that threshold.

Also, Plymouth Township should take notes. They should be doing this more than anyone in Montco.

[DIESELPOLO]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I'd be more impressed if it wasn't in the middle of a parking lot.

That being said, there does seem to be some mixed-use development being developed on Welsh Road. Not sure if that's Horsham or another municipality...

Either way, Montco definitely leading the way. In the next decade or two I could see Montco breaking 1MM people. It would be cool to have a suburban county break that threshold.

Also, Plymouth Township should take notes. They should be doing this more than anyone in Montco.

I have been trying to find a site plan for the development to no avail. Additionally, there is a lot of dense development happening in nearby Dresher (next to the Dresher Turnpike entrance), but there looks to have been no thought to allowing all the apartment dwellers to walk to nearby groceries and shopping, so it has the aesthetics of density without the benefits of it. The township could rectify it by putting in sidewalks. A tall order, but eminently possible.

[EastSideHBG]

UPPER PROVIDENCE TOWNSHIP, PA — Main Line Health has proposed a large new hospital on Route 29 in Upper Providence, directly across from Providence Town Center.

Construction plans call for a 500,000 square foot, five-story hospital building with 108 beds and surface parking. Future phases of the plan could see two medical office buildings of four stories each, one of 80,000 square feet and another of 60,000 square feet.
https://patch.com/pennsylvania/lowerprov...s-massive-new-hospital-arcola-road-upper

[kool-ski]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I'd be more impressed if it wasn't in the middle of a parking lot.

That being said, there does seem to be some mixed-use development being developed on Welsh Road. Not sure if that's Horsham or another municipality...

Either way, Montco definitely leading the way. In the next decade or two I could see Montco breaking 1MM people. It would be cool to have a suburban county break that threshold.

Also, Plymouth Township should take notes. They should be doing this more than anyone in Montco.

As a resident of Montco and observing all of the development in the last 20 years, I have been thinking about that 1 million mark for some time. I just happen to look up where Montgomery County (PA) ranks in the country for population and I could definitely see it eclipsing that 1 million mark in the next couple of decades!

Out of the 100 most populous counties and the total 3,144 counties in the country, Montgomery County (PA) ranks 71st! Most of that population is in Eastern Montco and Montco has 483 sq mi, which is the typical land area of a Sun Belt City lol.

But since this list includes counties that surround major cities or consolidated cities like Philadelphia, as a separate county altogether, it probably ranks much, much higher! Which is why I was looking for counties that border a city, not surround or encompass it, like Cook County, Ill or L.A. County, serving as an extension of the city.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by kool-ski

As a resident of Montco and observing all of the development in the last 20 years, I have been thinking about that 1 million mark for some time. I just happen to look up where Montgomery County (PA) ranks in the country for population and I could definitely see it eclipsing that 1 million mark in the next couple of decades!

Out of the 100 most populous counties and the total 3,144 counties in the country, Montgomery County (PA) ranks 71st! Most of that population is in Eastern Montco and Montco has 483 sq mi, which is the typical land area of a Sun Belt City lol.

Montco population will be nearing 900k at the 2030 census, entirely possible to hit 1M by 2040.

Allegheny County, the 2nd most populous county in PA (pop. ~1.25M) is stagnant/decreasing. A ways off, but I think it's inevitable that Montco will one day be the 2nd most populous county in PA.