PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[iamdjmichael]

Originally Posted by domodeez

Anyone have access to share what additional details of interest might be hidden behind the paywall?

9-story apartment plan for Bancroft Parkway
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/mon...ment-building-in-wilmington/89337347007/

Not many additional details of note tbh, the building is proposed by the same developer of 2000 Penn Ave around the corner, neighbor complaints are the same BS about parking and views despite this having more planned parking than units and the other building right there. Also the same tired “we need housing but not here”

[domodeez]

Thank you. Yea I expect it’ll get the ZBA variance request approved and move forward. Tsionis does good work and that area can use more infill. Good project, build it.

[PHLtoNYC]

Interesting to see the sustained market on the Main Line and the burbs at large. I frequently look up real estate on the Main Line and almost everything is under contract within days.

On the Main Line, homes aren’t just selling — they’re creating stampedes
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...elphia-main-line-real-estate-market.html

After Karen Strid listed a Radnor home at $1.975 million — $200,000 above where comparable homes have sold — as a "Compass private exclusive" on a Tuesday, it received an offer sight unseen for full price the next day.

That mad dash, and ensuing heartbreak for unsuccessful buyers is happening across price points along Philadelphia's coveted Main Line. Dotted with century-old stone homes clustered near train lines and quaint downtowns, the Main Line is home to some of the top school districts in the state, and by one ranking has four of the top 12 places to live in the U.S.

"We've had five years of predominantly a very strong seller's market on the Main Line with a lot of demand, but it does feel like these last three months are the pinnacle of it," said Sarah West of Compass, adding "it's hard to put a finger on exactly what's happening."

Within 12 hours of listing for nearly $1.5 million, a home on Clothier Road in Wynnewood received more than five offers, most of them cash and contingency free. It closed last week at $1.8 million, 18% over the list price.

Agents are seeing more people flood the affluent Philadelphia suburbs from out of town — whether from New York, California, Washington, D.C., or Florida. Many are younger families looking to be nearby the Main Line's top school districts, prized private schools and exclusive country clubs. Others are looking for their first house outside of Philadelphia, and there is still a contingent of downsizing empty-nesters on the market.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Agents are seeing more people flood the affluent Philadelphia suburbs from out of town — whether from New York, California, Washington, D.C., or Florida. Many are younger families looking to be nearby the Main Line's top school districts, prized private schools and exclusive country clubs. Others are looking for their first house outside of Philadelphia, and there is still a contingent of downsizing empty-nesters on the market.[/I]

It's just a lot of people, perhaps with ties to the area, coming home to work now that they aren't tied to an office. Yes, back to the office is a thing, but on the flip side, for many, WFH is permanent. Also, when you get to a certain senior ranking, you travel for work so much that your location is sorta irrelevant.

BTW, this is also the impact of having good public schools in the region. Even if the employers aren't based here, if we produce the talent in this region, they may ultimately come back anyway.

I monitor real estate transactions in the region as well, with the added neurosis of also looking up some of the buyers. A lot of folks from CA and NY in particular. Not just on the Main Line, but in Chestnut Hill, Ambler/Blue Bell, West Chester, Glen Mills, Chadds Ford, etc etc.

I've come across two buyers recently in the area that work at Nvidia. Clearly multi-millionaires at this point, and clearly not going into the office every day. There's just so much of that coming home to roost.

I got my car serviced at my mechanic in Willow Grove this week. Drove up, dropped it off, then took Septa Regional Rail back into town. Ditto in the reverse to go pick it up. 1. The ride was smooth and on time. 2. Now that they have tap in/out (with regular credit cards), it's super easy. 3. The conductors on both trains were super nice a chatty. 4. The stations and trains were immaculate. On top of that, it struck me how utterly nice so many of our suburbs are. On the way back, I drove some of the back roads through Abington, Jenkintown, Cheltenham. These aren't even the most coveted places and they're just gorgeous.

I have to think that when you come here for the first time and start seeing the housing stock, especially if you come from a higher priced region, that the entire thing is probably mind blowing.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I got my car serviced at my mechanic in Willow Grove this week. Drove up, dropped it off, then took Septa Regional Rail back into town. Ditto in the reverse to go pick it up. 1. The ride was smooth and on time. 2. Now that they have tap in/out (with regular credit cards), it's super easy. 3. The conductors on both trains were super nice a chatty. 4. The stations and trains were immaculate. On top of that, it struck me how utterly nice so many of our suburbs are. On the way back, I drove some of the back roads through Abington, Jenkintown, Cheltenham. These aren't even the most coveted places and they're just gorgeous.

I have to think that when you come here for the first time and start seeing the housing stock, especially if you come from a higher priced region, that the entire thing is probably mind blowing.

The Lansdale/Doylestown Line now gets higher ridership than Paoli/Thorndale.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The Lansdale/Doylestown Line now gets higher ridership than Paoli/Thorndale.

Interesting. I mean, the one downfall of those suburbs due north of the city in Montgomery County is that they're a pain in the — to get to via car (which is less the case in the western burbs). When I did drive back, it took me nearly an hour to go 11 miles back to Fishtown. The train from Willow Grove to Temple U Station (which is where I embarked) was 36 minutes.

It also struck me while waiting for the train to go back to Willow Grove yesterday, just how well connected Temple is to the entire regional rail network. I mean, I was probably on the platform for 10 minutes (and granted, it was rush hour), but no fewer than 4 trains came in that ten minutes (on the various lines that stop there). If I lived in South Kensington, I'd probably walk west to the Temple Station rather than east to the L to get downtown. If you live on say, 4th or 5th street, it's no further to go west to 9th & Berks than it is to go to Front & Berks.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Interesting. I mean, the one downfall of those suburbs due north of the city in Montgomery County is that they're a pain in the — to get to via car (which is less the case in the western burbs). When I did drive back, it took me nearly an hour to go 11 miles back to Fishtown. The train from Willow Grove to Temple U Station (which is where I embarked) was 36 minutes.

It also struck me while waiting for the train to go back to Willow Grove yesterday, just how well connected Temple is to the entire regional rail network. I mean, I was probably on the platform for 10 minutes (and granted, it was rush hour), but no fewer than 4 trains came in that ten minutes (on the various lines that stop there). If I lived in South Kensington, I'd probably walk west to the Temple Station rather than east to the L to get downtown. If you live on say, 4th or 5th street, it's no further to go west to 9th & Berks than it is to go to Front & Berks.

Every train on the network (excepting the Cynwyd Line and a very limited amount of Trenton Line trains) calls there. The only detractor is that a ticket from Temple to Jefferson is $5 while the same ticket on the L is $2.90.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Every train on the network (excepting the Cynwyd Line and a very limited amount of Trenton Line trains) calls there. The only detractor is that a ticket from Temple to Jefferson is $5 while the same ticket on the L is $2.90.

Regional Rail trips within city limits really should be at parity with the subway. And if not quite parity, I dunno, $3.50 versus $2.90?

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Regional Rail trips within city limits really should be at parity with the subway. And if not quite parity, I dunno, $3.50 versus $2.90?

That and opening some more city stops at 9th and Girard, 33rd and Oxford, Mann Center and Zoo. Multiple lines run by these locations already, all above ground.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

That and opening some more city stops at 9th and Girard, 33rd and Oxford, Mann Center and Zoo. Multiple lines run by these locations already, all above ground.

All insanely good suggestions.

[bdurk]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

That and opening some more city stops at 9th and Girard, 33rd and Oxford, Mann Center and Zoo. Multiple lines run by these locations already, all above ground.

The funny thing is there used to be stations at 9th and Girard and the Zoo. Idk about the other locations you mentioned but it's a shame that we destroyed existing stations.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by bdurk

The funny thing is there used to be stations at 9th and Girard and the Zoo. Idk about the other locations you mentioned but it's a shame that we destroyed existing stations.

9th and Girard was demolished fairly early on (I believe it was just after WWII). Zoological Gardens was even earlier, as it closed in 1901 concurrent with some substantial improvements that the PRR made to their physical plant in the area.

9th and Girard could come back fairly easily, but would still require property takes and would only be able to reasonably serve the outer two tracks. Building two island platforms to allow all trains to stop would likely drive the project cost into the $100s of millions.

Zoological Gardens is likely impossible to put back, owing to the tight curvature as well as the configurations at ZOO Interlocking.

33rd and Oxford has been proposed a few times, and could be done, but would require significant coordination between SEPTA, the City, Amtrak, NJT, and Conrail. Most outbound CHW trains "buck traffic" and run on the northernmost track to get to North Philadelphia. This practice would need to end in order to service both platforms directionally at any proposed station.

The Mann Center would be a slam dunk. There was historically a station at 52nd and Lancaster that could be at least partially repurposed. Originally, all outbound commuter traffic (both for Norristown and for Paoli) used the "flyover" bridge, so the only two platforms were an island between the inbound duckunder and the Main Line as well as an elevated station on the flyover. Any new station platform for outbound Paoli/Thorndale and Cynwyd trains would necessitate modifying VALLEY Interlocking--not cheap--to allow both trains to platform before continuing west. It would be faster and easier to build a simple platform on the Cynwyd Line and run extra service during concerts.

Historically, there was a stop on the Reading 9th Street Branch at 21st and Hunting Park. I think that this would be a fairly quick and easy station to build in tandem with Girard.

A station that never existed but should is at 5th and Delphine on the Fox Chase Line. Combined with the 47/50 busses that stop would do numbers.

Unfortunately, the work required to lower headways on the Railroad below 30 minutes is prohibitively expensive. Just to get 20 minute headways reliably on the Airport Line would cost upwards of $200MM.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Unfortunately, the work required to lower headways on the Railroad below 30 minutes is prohibitively expensive. Just to get 20 minute headways reliably on the Airport Line would cost upwards of $200MM.

What does that 200 million cover? Is it for paying Amtrak to use the tracks more or is it actually building new infrastructure? Could Septa ever run smaller trains at higher frequency? Reimagining Regional Rail had a plan for 15 min headways a few different lines if I recall correctly?

Yeah so the Cynwyd line would be the one to modify it sounds like at like 53rd and Parkside towards the back of the Mann, only run it on concert nights. What about a zoo stop at 34th and Mantua, where the Cynwyd slips from the curved interlocking area.

https://wwww.septa.org/initiatives/regional-rail/reimagining-regional-rail/

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

What does that 200 million cover? Is it for paying Amtrak to use the tracks more or is it actually building new infrastructure? Could Septa ever run smaller trains at higher frequency?

Infrastructure. There are two fairly large sections of single track on the line (Terminal F to Terminal A, and 60th Street to PHIL Interlocking). The former would need to be eliminated and the latter significantly shrunk in order to maintain 20-minute headways.

The single-tracking at the Airport (despite there being two serviceable tracks) exists because the Airport built the "baggage platforms" and then requested that SEPTA exclusively use the inner track in order that patrons coming out of baggage claim could walk directly into a train without having to go up escalators/stairs. The single track bridge over the NEC near 60th Street was provisioned for a second track, so it's not impossible to significantly shrink that section (although still not cheap).

If SEPTA went back to using both Airport tracks, and put that second track in over the NEC, you could get 20 minute headways with some reliability, except...

Freight. Conrail uses the Airport Line regularly. Moving to increased frequencies would almost certainly fall apart the second that any freight moves across the line, as there is little chance to recover the schedule for the remainder of the day. Running trains at 20 minute headways requires completely separating freight traffic from SEPTA, which can be done in one of three ways:

1. Temporal separation, where freight traffic is restricted to overnight hours
2. Constructing a third track from 90th Street to 60th Street, bypassing any future high-level platform at Eastwick
3. Bypassing the Airport Line entirely by restoring the Fort Mifflin Branch of the Pennsylvania Railroad

1. Is likely not feasible as several high-profile freight trains use the line, and 2. is likely not feasible because it still requires freight to cross the Airport Line at-grade as well as rebuilding 61st street bridge. 3. is very expensive but would solve the problem permanently. Take your pick.

In order to get fifteen-minute headways, you'd need to eliminate that other single track section entirely. Throw in another $100MM.

[Jawnadelphia]

https://www.delawarepublic.org/politics-...-wilmingtons-edgemoor-expansion-to-start

"The Edgemoor expansion is projected to quadruple Delaware's capacity for container cargo and enable service to new and larger ships– making it one of the mid-Atlantic's largest container terminals."

[ZSuede]

308 Justison Street in Wilmington yesterday

[Jawnadelphia]

^Looking good, the cladding should be close to the renders being a DIGSAU/BPG collaboration.

I wish BPG would renovation the exterior of the Justison Landing apartments though, they are starting to show their age -- the light gray panels at the top have always looked cheap.

[ZSuede]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

^Looking good, the cladding should be close to the renders being a DIGSAU/BPG collaboration.

I wish BPG would renovation the exterior of the Justison Landing apartments though, they are starting to show their age -- the light gray panels at the top have always looked cheap.

I was thinking the same when walking past (and for years now) - just looks like the top of a warehouse.

Constitution Yards next to Justison Landing also looks pretty far along in the rebuild - the old shipping containers have been moved to what look like their final spots, and a raised platform is being built on the lot, similar to what the last spot had, covered by wood boards. This was its state almost exactly 1 year ago:

[domodeez]

Long time coming. In the works since Fall 2014, Delaware Law School officially announced yesterday that they will be relocating to downtown Wilmington.

Delaware Law School will move to a vacant corporate HQ space in Wilmington
https://www.inquirer.com/business/widene...60414.html?query=Delaware%20law%20school

Widener University Delaware Law School, which has more than 700 students, will move to 1020 French St., a 240,000-square-foot building. The new law school will be across from the former MBNA America Bank on the eastern tip of the city’s Rodney Square, which is being turned into apartments and offices in a separate redevelopment. The law school move is planned for fall 2027.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Nova08

This x100.

The site is at the far, far, far corner of the area bounded by 476, Ridge Pike, Butler Pike and the river. It's not in realistic walking distance to downtown Conshohocken, you put your life at risk to walk to anything along Ridge and there aren't any fields, playgrounds, parks, etc. in walking distance either. It's a loud, complex, busy, dangerous intersection. I'm all for density but whatever housing could be built here would essentially be it's own island.

I would not want to live right there. It's like living on a traffic island.

I remember when that plot of land was a drive in movie theater...