Worldwide Demographics

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by craigs

He did not do that.

Change your eyewear.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Yuri

As usual, I like to work at many metropolitan definitions, always looking inside the same country to keep consistency. Out of fun, however, I decided to cross British and German cities with similar metro area definitions:

------------------ 2021/22 ---- 2011 ---- Growth ---- Area

[B]GERMANY ------ 82,711,282 -- 80,219,695 --- +3.1% - 357,022 Km²
BRITAIN ------ 66,940,559 -- 63,182,178 --- +5.9% - 242,500 Km²

London ------- 13,250,179 -- 12,330,655 --- +7.5% --- 7,312 Km²
Ruhr ---------- 5,602,975 --- 5,566,964 --- +0.6% --- 4,709 Km²
Berlin -------- 4,572,271 --- 4,150,943 -- +10.2% --- 3,370 Km²
(...)

- Four cities posting double-digit growth: Bristol (+10.8%) and Leicester (+10.2%) in England and Berlin (+10.2%) and Leipzig (+17.2%) in Germany. Leipzig, in fact, Texas-style growth.

- Slowest growth for the Ruhr, with +0.6%, followed by Sheffield (+1.5%). No area into negative terrain, thanks to the strong immigration.

Adding France and Ireland. Attention for growth rates, with periods ranging from 8 years (FR), 10 years (GB) to 11 years (DE and IE):

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
GERMANY ------ 82,711,282 -- 80,219,695 --- +3.1% - 357,022 Km²

------------------- 2021 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
BRITAIN ------ 66,940,559 -- 63,182,178 --- +5.9% - 242,500 Km²

------------------- 2023 ------ 2015 ----- Growth ----- Area
FRANCE ------- 66,165,815 -- 64,300,821 --- +2.9% - 543,965 Km²

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
IRELAND ------- 5,123,536 --- 4,588,252 -- +11.7% -- 68,466 Km²

London ------- 13,250,179 -- 12,330,655 --- +7.5% --- 7,312 Km²
Paris -------- 11,704,308 -- 11,348,266 --- +3.1% --- 4,267 Km²
Ruhr ---------- 5,602,975 --- 5,566,964 --- +0.6% --- 4,709 Km²
Berlin -------- 4,572,271 --- 4,150,943 -- +10.2% --- 3,370 Km²
Birmingham ---- 3,396,849 --- 3,192,126 --- +6.4% --- 1,376 Km²
Manchester ---- 3,078,739 --- 2,884,756 --- +6.7% --- 1,457 Km²
Hamburg ------- 2,702,512 --- 2,531,888 --- +6.7% --- 2,305 Km²
Munich -------- 2,165,216 --- 1,977,000 --- +9.5% --- 1,247 Km²
Leeds --------- 2,040,866 --- 1,924,333 --- +6.1% --- 1,140 Km²
Frankfurt ----- 1,916,367 --- 1,761,415 --- +8.8% --- 1,284 Km²
Lyon ---------- 1,846,693 --- 1,752,311 --- +5.4% --- 1,502 Km²
Stuttgart ----- 1,715,422 --- 1,629,556 --- +5.3% --- 1,208 Km²
Marseille ----- 1,705,428 --- 1,645,627 --- +3.6% --- 1,917 Km²
Köln ---------- 1,681,825 --- 1,644,242 --- +2.3% --- 1,074 Km²
Glasgow ------- 1,575,563 --- 1,517,830 --- +3.8% --- 1,110 Km²
Liverpool ----- 1,551,763 --- 1,506,935 --- +3.0% ----- 724 Km²
Dublin -------- 1,450,701 --- 1,273,069 -- +14.0% ----- 924 Km²
Düsseldorf ---- 1,217,923 --- 1,177,437 --- +3.4% ----- 710 Km²
Lille --------- 1,157,623 --- 1,129,285 --- +2.5% ----- 672 Km²
Newcastle ----- 1,127,190 --- 1,104,141 --- +2.1% ----- 540 Km²
Toulouse ------ 1,093,783 ----- 983,687 -- +11.2% ----- 958 Km²
Bordeaux ------ 1,034,027 ----- 932,981 -- +10.8% --- 1,287 Km²
Nürnberg ------ 1,011,058 ----- 941,876 --- +7.3% ----- 737 Km²
Southampton ----- 997,237 ----- 959,862 --- +3.9% ----- 427 Km²
Nice ------------ 987,709 ----- 943,354 --- +4.7% ----- 744 Km²
Mannheim -------- 983,949 ----- 920,407 --- +6.9% ----- 713 Km²
Bremen ---------- 921,844 ----- 873,409 --- +5.5% --- 1,427 Km²
Hannover -------- 885,724 ----- 863,436 --- +2.6% ----- 988 Km²
Sheffield ------- 831,349 ----- 819,295 --- +1.5% ----- 484 Km²
Wuppertal ------- 817,382 ----- 791,162 --- +3.3% ----- 585 Km²
Dresden --------- 786,655 ----- 734,067 --- +7.2% ----- 742 Km²
Bristol --------- 754,853 ----- 680,981 -- +10.8% ----- 358 Km²
Leipzig --------- 713,412 ----- 608,774 -- +17.2% ----- 670 Km²
Nantes ---------- 704,411 ----- 642,385 --- +9.7% ----- 539 Km²
Bonn ------------ 690,103 ----- 660,344 --- +4.5% ----- 588 Km²
Nottingham ------ 628,746 ----- 599,536 --- +4.9% ----- 260 Km²
Brighton -------- 617,874 ----- 589,095 --- +4.9% ----- 378 Km²
Edinburgh ------- 616,584 ----- 566,853 --- +8.8% ----- 496 Km²
Cardiff --------- 608,067 ----- 588,754 --- +3.5% ----- 391 Km²
Toulon ---------- 603,708 ----- 569,793 --- +6.0% ----- 764 Km²
Leicester ------- 584,107 ----- 529,841 -- +10.2% ----- 231 Km²
Montpellier ----- 555,188 ----- 492,730 -- +12.7% ----- 478 Km²
Aachen ---------- 540,238 ----- 503,997 --- +7.2% ----- 462 Km²
Strasbourg ------ 537,677 ----- 501,570 --- +7.2% ----- 380 Km²
Belfast --------- 521,999 ----- 501,782 --- +4.0% ----- 319 Km²
Douais-Lens ----- 517,565 ----- 516,784 --- +0.2% ----- 527 Km²

- Dublin, not surprisingly, with a very robust growth, still, below Leipzig;

- France being very "American": they have Sun Belt growth in Toulouse, Bordeaux, Nantes, Montpellier and Rust Belt in Douai-Lens and Lille to a lesser extent. Germany and Britain, despite their Rust Belt credentials, have a more evenly growth pattern, mostly due high immigration.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Adding France and Ireland. Attention for growth rates, with periods ranging from 8 years (FR), 10 years (GB) to 11 years (DE and IE):

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
GERMANY ------ 82,711,282 -- 80,219,695 --- +3.1% - 357,022 Km²

------------------- 2021 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
BRITAIN ------ 66,940,559 -- 63,182,178 --- +5.9% - 242,500 Km²

------------------- 2023 ------ 2015 ----- Growth ----- Area
FRANCE ------- 66,165,815 -- 64,300,821 --- +2.9% - 543,965 Km²

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
IRELAND ------- 5,123,536 --- 4,588,252 -- +11.7% -- 68,466 Km²

London ------- 13,250,179 -- 12,330,655 --- +7.5% --- 7,312 Km²
Paris -------- 11,704,308 -- 11,348,266 --- +3.1% --- 4,267 Km²
Ruhr ---------- 5,602,975 --- 5,566,964 --- +0.6% --- 4,709 Km²
Berlin -------- 4,572,271 --- 4,150,943 -- +10.2% --- 3,370 Km²
Birmingham ---- 3,396,849 --- 3,192,126 --- +6.4% --- 1,376 Km²
Manchester ---- 3,078,739 --- 2,884,756 --- +6.7% --- 1,457 Km²
Hamburg ------- 2,702,512 --- 2,531,888 --- +6.7% --- 2,305 Km²
Munich -------- 2,165,216 --- 1,977,000 --- +9.5% --- 1,247 Km²
Leeds --------- 2,040,866 --- 1,924,333 --- +6.1% --- 1,140 Km²
Frankfurt ----- 1,916,367 --- 1,761,415 --- +8.8% --- 1,284 Km²
Lyon ---------- 1,846,693 --- 1,752,311 --- +5.4% --- 1,502 Km²
Stuttgart ----- 1,715,422 --- 1,629,556 --- +5.3% --- 1,208 Km²
Marseille ----- 1,705,428 --- 1,645,627 --- +3.6% --- 1,917 Km²
Köln ---------- 1,681,825 --- 1,644,242 --- +2.3% --- 1,074 Km²
Glasgow ------- 1,575,563 --- 1,517,830 --- +3.8% --- 1,110 Km²
Liverpool ----- 1,551,763 --- 1,506,935 --- +3.0% ----- 724 Km²
Dublin -------- 1,450,701 --- 1,273,069 -- +14.0% ----- 924 Km²
Düsseldorf ---- 1,217,923 --- 1,177,437 --- +3.4% ----- 710 Km²
Lille --------- 1,157,623 --- 1,129,285 --- +2.5% ----- 672 Km²
Newcastle ----- 1,127,190 --- 1,104,141 --- +2.1% ----- 540 Km²
Toulouse ------ 1,093,783 ----- 983,687 -- +11.2% ----- 958 Km²
Bordeaux ------ 1,034,027 ----- 932,981 -- +10.8% --- 1,287 Km²
Nürnberg ------ 1,011,058 ----- 941,876 --- +7.3% ----- 737 Km²
Southampton ----- 997,237 ----- 959,862 --- +3.9% ----- 427 Km²
Nice ------------ 987,709 ----- 943,354 --- +4.7% ----- 744 Km²
Mannheim -------- 983,949 ----- 920,407 --- +6.9% ----- 713 Km²
Bremen ---------- 921,844 ----- 873,409 --- +5.5% --- 1,427 Km²
Hannover -------- 885,724 ----- 863,436 --- +2.6% ----- 988 Km²
Sheffield ------- 831,349 ----- 819,295 --- +1.5% ----- 484 Km²
Wuppertal ------- 817,382 ----- 791,162 --- +3.3% ----- 585 Km²
Dresden --------- 786,655 ----- 734,067 --- +7.2% ----- 742 Km²
Bristol --------- 754,853 ----- 680,981 -- +10.8% ----- 358 Km²
Leipzig --------- 713,412 ----- 608,774 -- +17.2% ----- 670 Km²
Nantes ---------- 704,411 ----- 642,385 --- +9.7% ----- 539 Km²
Bonn ------------ 690,103 ----- 660,344 --- +4.5% ----- 588 Km²
Nottingham ------ 628,746 ----- 599,536 --- +4.9% ----- 260 Km²
Brighton -------- 617,874 ----- 589,095 --- +4.9% ----- 378 Km²
Edinburgh ------- 616,584 ----- 566,853 --- +8.8% ----- 496 Km²
Cardiff --------- 608,067 ----- 588,754 --- +3.5% ----- 391 Km²
Toulon ---------- 603,708 ----- 569,793 --- +6.0% ----- 764 Km²
Leicester ------- 584,107 ----- 529,841 -- +10.2% ----- 231 Km²
Montpellier ----- 555,188 ----- 492,730 -- +12.7% ----- 478 Km²
Aachen ---------- 540,238 ----- 503,997 --- +7.2% ----- 462 Km²
Strasbourg ------ 537,677 ----- 501,570 --- +7.2% ----- 380 Km²
Belfast --------- 521,999 ----- 501,782 --- +4.0% ----- 319 Km²
Douais-Lens ----- 517,565 ----- 516,784 --- +0.2% ----- 527 Km²

Corrected your figures. De nada!

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
GERMANY ------ 82,711,282 -- 80,219,695 --- +3.1% - 357,022 Km²

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
FRANCE ------- 68,060,207 -- 65,142,541 --- +4.5% - 632,702 Km²

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
BRITAIN ------ 67,306,246 -- 63,497,444 --- +6.0% - 242,500 Km²

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
IRELAND ------- 5,123,536 --- 4,588,252 -- +11.7% -- 68,466 Km²

Paris -------- 13,339,090 -- 12,780,467 --- +4.4% --- 18,941 Km²
London ------- 13,250,179 -- 12,330,655 --- +7.5% --- 7,312 Km²
Ruhr ---------- 5,602,975 --- 5,566,964 --- +0.6% --- 4,709 Km²
Berlin -------- 4,572,271 --- 4,150,943 -- +10.2% --- 3,370 Km²
Birmingham ---- 3,396,849 --- 3,192,126 --- +6.4% --- 1,376 Km²
Manchester ---- 3,078,739 --- 2,884,756 --- +6.7% --- 1,457 Km²
Hamburg ------- 2,702,512 --- 2,531,888 --- +6.7% --- 2,305 Km²
Lyon ---------- 2,327,861 --- 2,111,987 -- +10.2% --- 4,606 Km²
Munich -------- 2,165,216 --- 1,977,000 --- +9.5% --- 1,247 Km²
Leeds --------- 2,040,866 --- 1,924,333 --- +6.1% --- 1,140 Km²
Frankfurt ----- 1,916,367 --- 1,761,415 --- +8.8% --- 1,284 Km²
Marseille ----- 1,900,957 --- 1,808,038 --- +5.1% --- 3,972 Km²
Stuttgart ----- 1,715,422 --- 1,629,556 --- +5.3% --- 1,208 Km²
Köln ---------- 1,681,825 --- 1,644,242 --- +2.3% --- 1,074 Km²
Glasgow ------- 1,575,563 --- 1,517,830 --- +3.8% --- 1,110 Km²
Liverpool ----- 1,551,763 --- 1,506,935 --- +3.0% ----- 724 Km²
Lille --------- 1,528,848 --- 1,461,966 --- +4.6% --- 1,666 Km²
Toulouse ------ 1,513,396 --- 1,301,223 -- +16.3% --- 6,520 Km²
Dublin -------- 1,450,701 --- 1,273,069 -- +14.0% ----- 924 Km²
Bordeaux ------ 1,412,388 --- 1,210,954 -- +16.6% --- 6,316 Km²
Düsseldorf ---- 1,217,923 --- 1,177,437 --- +3.4% ----- 710 Km²
Newcastle ----- 1,127,190 --- 1,104,141 --- +2.1% ----- 540 Km²
Nantes -------- 1,041,894 ----- 904,218 -- +15.2% --- 3,471 Km²
Nice ---------- 1,034,078 ----- 999,401 --- +3.5% --- 2,519 Km²
Nürnberg ------ 1,011,058 ----- 941,876 --- +7.3% ----- 737 Km²
Southampton ----- 997,237 ----- 959,862 --- +3.9% ----- 427 Km²
Mannheim -------- 983,949 ----- 920,407 --- +6.9% ----- 713 Km²
Bremen ---------- 921,844 ----- 873,409 --- +5.5% --- 1,427 Km²
Hannover -------- 885,724 ----- 863,436 --- +2.6% ----- 988 Km²
Strasbourg ------ 868,665 ----- 812,265 --- +6.9% --- 2,227 Km²
Montpellier ----- 834,366 ----- 712,743 -- +17.1% --- 2,414 Km²	
Sheffield ------- 831,349 ----- 819,295 --- +1.5% ----- 484 Km²
Wuppertal ------- 817,382 ----- 791,162 --- +3.3% ----- 585 Km²
Dresden --------- 786,655 ----- 734,067 --- +7.2% ----- 742 Km²
Bristol --------- 754,853 ----- 680,981 -- +10.8% ----- 358 Km²
Leipzig --------- 713,412 ----- 608,774 -- +17.2% ----- 670 Km²
Bonn ------------ 690,103 ----- 660,344 --- +4.5% ----- 588 Km²
Nottingham ------ 628,746 ----- 599,536 --- +4.9% ----- 260 Km²
Brighton -------- 617,874 ----- 589,095 --- +4.9% ----- 378 Km²
Edinburgh ------- 616,584 ----- 566,853 --- +8.8% ----- 496 Km²
Cardiff --------- 608,067 ----- 588,754 --- +3.5% ----- 391 Km²
Toulon ---------- 586,917 ----- 541,969 --- +8.3% --- 1,004 Km²
Leicester ------- 584,107 ----- 529,841 -- +10.2% ----- 231 Km²	
Aachen ---------- 540,238 ----- 503,997 --- +7.2% ----- 462 Km²
Belfast --------- 521,999 ----- 501,782 --- +4.0% ----- 319 Km²

[New Brisavoine]

So much for 'French has reached its peak and can only regress from now on'.

Angola, a former Portuguese colony, has a population of primary school age that is nearly 3 times Canada's, or 40% larger than Germany's, to give a sense of perspective...

In Angola, French becomes compulsory from primary school onward

Le Monde
March 24, 2026

A reform from June 2025 is making French language instruction compulsory for Angolan schoolchildren. This is a way for Luanda to strengthen its ties with its Francophone neighbors Congo-Brazzaville and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

It's no small victory for the Francophonie, and it had gone largely unnoticed. In June 2025, the Angolan government introduced French as a compulsory foreign language starting in the third cycle of primary school – from age 10. While it had previously been only optional, generally taught in secondary school and to a limited number of students, the language of Molière is now learned from childhood in this vast Portuguese-speaking country of 39 million inhabitants – the Angolan population is expected to reach 75 million by 2050.

"The goal of this reform is to enable Angola to strengthen its economy by getting closer to Congo-Brazzaville and the Democratic Republic of Congo [DRC] , two neighboring countries where French is widely spoken", explains Ilyes Zouari, researcher and president of the Cercle d’études et de réflexion sur le monde francophone, who spotted this reform.

The goal is also to "consolidate Angola's diplomatic influence", adds Zouari. João Lourenço, the Angolan president, is mediating the conflict in the east of the DRC between the Congolese army and the March 23 Movement (M23), a paramilitary group supported by Rwanda. He also intervened in Gabon to secure the release, in May 2025, of former president Ali Bongo and his family, who were being held in Libreville after the August 2023 coup.

[...]

https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2...e-des-l-ecole-primaire_6674123_3212.html

In West Africa, outside Nigeria, French is already de facto the lingua franca used by people in Guinea-Bissau (former Portuguese colony), Liberia (former US protectorate) and Sierra Leone (former British colony) to communicate with their neighbors, and even in Ghana there are many people who speak French nowadays (particularly traders). It's interesting to see that the same phenomenon is taking place in central Africa.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So much for 'French has reached its peak and can only regress from now on'.

Angola, a former Portuguese colony, has a population of primary school age that is nearly 3 times Canada's, or 40% larger than Germany's, to give a sense of perspective...

Like Spanish in Brazil where people supposedly learn at school since the 1990's. Knowledge? Zero.

And talking about Angola, just for you take notice: 70% of Angolans speak Portuguese inside their homes. So it's not like anywhere in Francophone Africa where virtually 0% do it.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Like Spanish in Brazil where people supposedly learn at school since the 1990's. Knowledge? Zero.

First of all you exaggerate, as always. MANY Brazilians understand Spanish (in general the Brazilians understand Spanish better than the Spanish speakers can understand Portuguese). I had a Brazilian friend in London who came from a very poor state in the Nordeste, and we communicated in Spanish (his English was very very bad). He understood my Spanish quite well.

And then you forget that in the multilingual context of Africa, people are much better at learning languages. Africans catch other languages faster.

There are already quite a few Angolans who can speak French, and the numbers will only increase with this reform.

Originally Posted by Yuri

And talking about Angola, just for you take notice: 70% of Angolans speak Portuguese inside their homes. So it's not like anywhere in Francophone Africa where virtually 0% do it.

We've already covered that. You simply did not read your source which said that 71% of Angolans people speak SEVERAL languages at home (among them Portuguese). So it's not like these 71% of Angolans speak ONLY Portuguese at home.

In Francophone Africa, there are also many people who speak French (among other languages) at home, like this woman in Dakar interviewed a few years ago in a magazine who said she spoke French with her father, Wolof with her brothers, and the village dialect with her mother. Too complicated for you to understand perhaps.

It's not a zero-sum game, it's a case of 1 + 1 = 2.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Adding France and Ireland. Attention for growth rates, with periods ranging from 8 years (FR), 10 years (GB) to 11 years (DE and IE):

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
GERMANY ------ 82,711,282 -- 80,219,695 --- +3.1% - 357,022 Km²

------------------- 2021 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
BRITAIN ------ 66,940,559 -- 63,182,178 --- +5.9% - 242,500 Km²

------------------- 2023 ------ 2015 ----- Growth ----- Area
FRANCE ------- 66,165,815 -- 64,300,821 --- +2.9% - 543,965 Km²

------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
IRELAND ------- 5,123,536 --- 4,588,252 -- +11.7% -- 68,466 Km²

[B]London ------- 13,250,179 -- 12,330,655 --- +7.5% --- 7,312 Km²
Paris -------- 11,704,308 -- 11,348,266 --- +3.1% --- 4,267 Km²
(...)

- Dublin, not surprisingly, with a very robust growth, still, below Leipzig;

- France being very "American": they have Sun Belt growth in Toulouse, Bordeaux, Nantes, Montpellier and Rust Belt in Douai-Lens and Lille to a lesser extent. Germany and Britain, despite their Rust Belt credentials, have a more evenly growth pattern, mostly due high immigration.

Now bringing Netherlands, Belgium and Austria:

-------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
GERMANY ------ 82,711,282 -- 80,219,695 --- +3.1% - 357,022 Km²

-------------------- 2021 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
BRITAIN ------ 66,940,559 -- 63,182,178 --- +5.9% - 242,500 Km²

-------------------- 2023 ------ 2015 ----- Growth ----- Area
FRANCE ------- 66,165,815 -- 64,300,821 --- +2.9% - 543,965 Km²

-------------------- 2021 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
NETHERLANDS -- 17,474,693 -- 16,655,799 --- +4.9% -- 33,671 Km²

-------------------- 2021 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
BELGIUM ------ 11,521,238 -- 10,951,266 --- +5.2% -- 30,689 Km²

-------------------- 2021 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
AUSTRIA ------- 8,968,068 --- 8,401,940 --- +6.7% -- 83,879 Km²

-------------------- 2022 ------ 2011 ----- Growth ----- Area
IRELAND ------- 5,123,536 --- 4,588,252 -- +11.7% -- 68,466 Km²

London ------- 13,250,179 -- 12,330,655 --- +7.5% --- 7,312 Km²
Paris -------- 11,704,308 -- 11,348,266 --- +3.1% --- 4,267 Km²
Ruhr ---------- 5,602,975 --- 5,566,964 --- +0.6% --- 4,709 Km²
Berlin -------- 4,572,271 --- 4,150,943 -- +10.2% --- 3,370 Km²
Birmingham ---- 3,396,849 --- 3,192,126 --- +6.4% --- 1,376 Km²
Manchester ---- 3,078,739 --- 2,884,756 --- +6.7% --- 1,457 Km²
Hamburg ------- 2,702,512 --- 2,531,888 --- +6.7% --- 2,305 Km²
Wien ---------- 2,255,496 --- 2,020,194 -- +11.6% --- 1,110 Km²
München ------- 2,165,216 --- 1,977,000 --- +9.5% --- 1,247 Km²
Leeds --------- 2,040,866 --- 1,924,333 --- +6.1% --- 1,140 Km²
Bruxelles ----- 2,017,633 --- 1,859,149 --- +8.5% --- 1,135 Km²
Frankfurt ----- 1,916,367 --- 1,761,415 --- +8.8% --- 1,284 Km²
Amsterdam ----- 1,862,745 --- 1,693,554 -- +10.0% --- 1,019 Km²
Lyon ---------- 1,846,693 --- 1,752,311 --- +5.4% --- 1,502 Km²
Stuttgart ----- 1,715,422 --- 1,629,556 --- +5.3% --- 1,208 Km²
Marseille ----- 1,705,428 --- 1,645,627 --- +3.6% --- 1,917 Km²
Rotterdam ----- 1,687,076 --- 1,601,896 --- +5.3% --- 1,144 Km²
Köln ---------- 1,681,825 --- 1,644,242 --- +2.3% --- 1,074 Km²
Glasgow ------- 1,575,563 --- 1,517,830 --- +3.8% --- 1,110 Km²
Liverpool ----- 1,551,763 --- 1,506,935 --- +3.0% ----- 724 Km²
Dublin -------- 1,450,701 --- 1,273,069 -- +14.0% ----- 924 Km²
Düsseldorf ---- 1,217,923 --- 1,177,437 --- +3.4% ----- 710 Km²
Lille --------- 1,157,623 --- 1,129,285 --- +2.5% ----- 672 Km²
Newcastle ----- 1,127,190 --- 1,104,141 --- +2.1% ----- 540 Km²
Hague --------- 1,121,614 --- 1,026,469 --- +9.3% ----- 403 Km²
Toulouse ------ 1,093,783 ----- 983,687 -- +11.2% ----- 958 Km²
Bordeaux ------ 1,034,027 ----- 932,981 -- +10.8% --- 1,287 Km²
Nürnberg ------ 1,011,058 ----- 941,876 --- +7.3% ----- 737 Km²
Antwerpen ----- 1,007,571 ----- 950,510 --- +6.0% ----- 811 Km²
Southampton ----- 997,237 ----- 959,862 --- +3.9% ----- 427 Km²
Nice ------------ 987,709 ----- 943,354 --- +4.7% ----- 744 Km²
Mannheim -------- 983,949 ----- 920,407 --- +6.9% ----- 713 Km²
Bremen ---------- 921,844 ----- 873,409 --- +5.5% --- 1,427 Km²
Hannover -------- 885,724 ----- 863,436 --- +2.6% ----- 988 Km²
Sheffield ------- 831,349 ----- 819,295 --- +1.5% ----- 484 Km²
Wuppertal ------- 817,382 ----- 791,162 --- +3.3% ----- 585 Km²
Dresden --------- 786,655 ----- 734,067 --- +7.2% ----- 742 Km²
Utrecht --------- 762,728 ----- 698,205 --- +9.2% ----- 567 Km²
Bristol --------- 754,853 ----- 680,981 -- +10.8% ----- 358 Km²
Leipzig --------- 713,412 ----- 608,774 -- +17.2% ----- 670 Km²
Nantes ---------- 704,411 ----- 642,385 --- +9.7% ----- 539 Km²
Bonn ------------ 690,103 ----- 660,344 --- +4.5% ----- 588 Km²
Nottingham ------ 628,746 ----- 599,536 --- +4.9% ----- 260 Km²
Brighton -------- 617,874 ----- 589,095 --- +4.9% ----- 378 Km²
Edinburgh ------- 616,584 ----- 566,853 --- +8.8% ----- 496 Km²
Cardiff --------- 608,067 ----- 588,754 --- +3.5% ----- 391 Km²
Toulon ---------- 603,708 ----- 569,793 --- +6.0% ----- 764 Km²
Leicester ------- 584,107 ----- 529,841 -- +10.2% ----- 231 Km²
Eindhoven ------- 556,927 ----- 521,918 --- +6.7% ----- 430 Km²
Montpellier ----- 555,188 ----- 492,730 -- +12.7% ----- 478 Km²
Liège ----------- 540,493 ----- 528,774 --- +2.2% ----- 447 Km²
Aachen ---------- 540,238 ----- 503,997 --- +7.2% ----- 462 Km²
Strasbourg ------ 537,677 ----- 501,570 --- +7.2% ----- 380 Km²
Belfast --------- 521,999 ----- 501,782 --- +4.0% ----- 319 Km²
Douais-Lens ----- 517,565 ----- 516,784 --- +0.2% ----- 527 Km²

- Vienna, doing great, growing at double-digits, faster than Berlin. They have a very good housing policy which might help;

- Amsterdam coming very strong, Rotterdam not so much. Hague and Utrecht (the latter with a very good reputation) are doing very well too. All the five Dutch metro areas on the list growing faster than the country as a whole. Back to the cities movement there too;

- Brussels, unsurprisingly growing fast and Antwerp crossing the 1 million mark. Liège, very Rust Belt.

[New Brisavoine]

^^What's the point of posting bogus figures? France doesn't have 66 million inhabitants, it has 69 million, whether you like it or not. And your data for metro areas are comparing apples and oranges, of course to make London #1 in Europe, what's new!



And this 69.08 million figure is itself an underestimate, for reasons I believe I have already explained. The real figure is closer to 70 million.

[streetscaper]

Both of you are exaggerating and are insufferable. In a way you deserve each other lol.

[New Brisavoine]

The metro areas of more than 1 million inhabitants in the EU and associated countries of EFTA in 2023 as published by Eurostat. Contrary to most metro area lists that circulate online that compare apples and oranges, the list here is an apples-to-apples comparison (harmonized definition of the metro areas, the FUA, used by Eurostat, the OECD, and various other institutions). Figures are post-censal estimates based on the European censuses of 2021/2022.

Population of the metro areas (FUA) on January 1, 2023:
1- Paris: 13,320,752
2- Madrid: 7,259,455
3- Barcelona : 5,567,511
4- Ruhr Area: 5,114,416
5- Berlin: 5,106,083
6- Milan: 5,048,392
7- Rome: 4,384,657
8- Athens: 3,598,438
9- Warsaw: 3,513,840
10- Hamburg: 3,493,121
11- Brussels: 3,398,857
12- Naples: 3,385,265
13- Vienna: 3,107,625
14- Munich: 3,066,200
15- Lisbon: 3,049,222
16- Budapest: 2,968,809
17- Amsterdam: 2,961,252
18- Frankfurt: 2,722,157
19- Stuttgart: 2,558,400
20- Valencia: 2,449,294
21- Stockholm: 2,440,027
22- Lyon: 2,339,329
23- Dublin: 2,267,266
24- Cologne: 2,234,016
25- Prague: 2,216,746 (2022)
26- Copenhagen: 2,175,209
27- Bucarest: 2,164,163
28- Zurich: 1,971,092
29- Marseille: 1,917,728
30- Rotterdam: 1,880,019
31- Seville: 1,794,490
32- Turin: 1,775,382
33- Oslo: 1,651,091
34- Helsinki: 1,571,264
35- Lille: 1,530,624
36- Toulouse: 1,529,112
37- Sofia: 1,495,186
38- Düsseldorf: 1,482,443
39- Krakow: 1,449,830
40- Bordeaux: 1,426,278
41- Malaga: 1,344,115
42- Mannheim: 1,334,633
43- Porto: 1,316,989
44- Hannover: 1,310,004
45- Katowice: 1,276,300
46- Murcia-Cartagena: 1,260,680
47- Nuremberg: 1,197,848
48- Antwerp: 1,172,740
49- Zagreb: 1,156,608
50- Bilbao : 1,152,927
51- The Hague: 1,150,797
52- Gothenburg: 1,080,638
53- Geneva: 1,079,840
54- Bremen: 1,058,197
55- Nantes: 1,050,815
56- Nice-Cannes: 1,045,839
57- Łódź: 1,034,461
58- Wrocław: 1,033,762
59- Thessalonica: 1,029,840

Number of metro areas of more than 1 million people per country/region:
- Germany: 12
- France: 8.5
- Spain: 7
- Poland: 5
- Benelux: 5
- Scandinavia: 5
- Italy: 4
- Greece: 2
- Portugal: 2
- Switzerland: 1.5

What's surprising is the small number of large metro areas in Italy, despite being a very urban country. Italy is more a country of middle-sized cities. Spain, on the other hand, is punching above its weight.

And as for my personal home turf, Toulouse has now entered the top 35 of Europe* (it used to be barely at the 50th rank), and will probably enter the top 30 within 10 years due to its un-European very high growth.

Geneva has also entered the list of European metro areas of more than 1 million people due to its very high growth. More than 40% of the metro area extends on French territory.

France should soon add one more metro area in the list of more than 1 million (Montpellier), and a few more years later probably another one (Rennes). Spain will also add another one very soon (Alicante-Elche), although I'm skeptical about the definition of that metro area.

*36 in fact (Eurostat for some reason had not included Vienna, but I got it from the OECD database); Toulouse has now passed Lille anyway and is #35 since 2024.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Yuri

South Korea, world's lowest fertility rate released their 2025 numbers:

Births ------------- 258,242
Deaths ------------ 366,149

Fertility Rate ---- 0.799 children/woman

Natural Growth -- -107,093

Population: 51,609,121 (2026)

Number of births has grown for the 2nd year straight, after an all-time low of 230,028 births back in 2023. In 2000, there were 640,089 births in South Korea. That's one of the steepest decline recorded everywhere.

TFR also bottomed in 2023, with 0.721 children/woman. Population has been falling every single year since 2020, when it peaked at 51,836,239.

South Korea fertility rates has been much lower than Japan's since the turn of the century. Its population is still younger due the demographic echo from the 1980's, but very soon South Korea population decline will surpass that of Japan, plunging very fast as those big cohorts of women leave the childbearing age.

Taiwan released its 2025 final numbers and displaced South Korea (0.72 in 2023) with the lowest TFR ever on modern times:

Births ------------- 107,812
Deaths ------------ 200,268

Fertility Rate ---- 0.70 children/woman

Natural Growth -- -92,456

Population: 23,299,132 (2025)

0.70 children/per woman. In 2016 there were 208,440 births in Taiwan; in 2000, 305,312. In 2025 only 107,812.

2020 was the first year Taiwan registered a negative natural growth. In 2025 there are already twice more deaths than births. I don't remember to have seen such a dramatic transition.

Preliminary figures for 2026 (Jan-Feb) are out and it's plunging even further, from 19,902 (Jan-Feb 2025) to 15,246 (Jan-Feb 2026). That indicates a low 0.6 children/woman for 2026.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Yuri

World's newest megacity: Luanda

Angola just released their Census results and population growth was staggering:

1970 ---- 5,646,166
2014 --- 25,789,024
2024 --- 36,604,681 (+41.9%)

And now it's safe to say Luanda is officially a megacity as 2025, Luanda being here Luanda Province (newest borders) plus the neighbouring municipalities of Sequele and Calumbo, totalling 2,174 Km² or 839 sqm:

1970 ----- 569,113
2014 --- 6,837,694
2024 --- 9,926,392 (+45.2%)

Back in November I posted about Luanda and now we welcomed another one: Baghdad

That was a surprise as Iraq took ages to conduct a Census. Here the numbers for the country:

1977: 12,000,497
1987: 16,335,198 -- +36.1%
1997: 22,046,244 -- +35.0%
2009: 31,664,466 -- +43.6%
2024: 46,118,793 -- +45.6%

And Baghdad:

1977: 3,189,700
1987: 3,841,268 -- +20.4%
1997: 5,423,964 -- +41.2%
2009: 6,702,538 -- +23.6%
2024: 9,780,429 -- +45.9%

Mosul

2009: 1,825,593
2024: 2,753,266 -- +50.8%

Basra

2009: 1,503,742
2024: 2,753,266 -- +51.7%

Najaf

2009: 992,834
2024: 1,671,506 -- +68.4%

Erbil

2009: 948,847
2024: 1,644,512 -- +73.3%

Kirkuk

2009: 924,792
2024: 1,549,454 -- +67.5%


--------------------------------------------


Iraq urban network is quite decentralized, with strong urban centres scattered around all the country and growing fast.

As Bogotá will deliver its subway next year, Baghdad will have the distinction of being the largest metro area in the world without rail transit.

[New Brisavoine]

Between the 2000 and 2021 Latvian censuses, the number of ethnic Latvians decreased from 1,370,703 to 1,187,891. A pretty shocking figure. The number of ethnic Latvians peaked at the 1935 census, at 1,472,612. They were never able to reach such a high figure again after Stalin annexed the country in 1940. And now they are on the road to extinction...

In Lithuania the number of ethnic Lithuanians decreased from 2,907,293 at the 2001 census to 2,378,118 at the 2021 census.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Between the 2000 and 2021 Latvian censuses, the number of ethnic Latvians decreased from 1,370,703 to 1,187,891. A pretty shocking figure. The number of ethnic Latvians peaked at the 1935 census, at 1,472,612. They were never able to reach such a high figure again after Stalin annexed the country in 1940. And now they are on the road to extinction...

In Lithuania the number of ethnic Lithuanians decreased from 2,907,293 at the 2001 census to 2,378,118 at the 2021 census.

And including everybody, it's even worse: Latvia went from 2,377,062 to 1,893,223. Ethnic Russians moved en masse to Russia and elsewhere. There were 905k Russians there in 1989; in 2021, only 463k.

Number of births peaked in 1987 with 42k; 24k in 2008 and fell to 11k (!!!) in 2025. A quarter of the 1987 number.

Rigid and insular culture, hostile to foreigners, small country surrounded by a big continent with bigger and richer countries. The last one to leave turn off the lights.

BTW, every country in Eastern Europe that carried out on Census in this 2020-2024 showed actual population much lower than the estimates.

[Crawford]

The Baltics have strong economies, solid institutions and high quality of life, but yeah, it's hard to keep young, educated people in tiny, isolated countries when you can have better professional opportunities by easily moving to Germany, France, or wherever.

You don't even need a work permit. Just go. EU freedom of movement is a huge benefit to the richer countries and major long-term problem for the rest.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The Baltics have strong economies, solid institutions and high quality of life, but yeah, it's hard to keep young, educated people in tiny, isolated countries when you can have better professional opportunities by easily moving to Germany, France, or wherever.

You don't even need a work permit. Just go. EU freedom of movement is a huge benefit to the richer countries and major long-term problem for the rest.

But they have massive subsidies over decades, something mid-income countries elsewhere cannot match. They must rely on themselves only. That's why we've watched this economic boom all over Eastern Europe: it's very simple when you have very big and rich neighbours sponsoring you.

You're right though: not enough to keep people in. However, they would leave even without the EU freedom of movement. Western Europe is very open to immigration.

Although way less dramatic, New Zealand and Uruguay have be dealing with this issue for decades.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The Baltics have strong economies, solid institutions and high quality of life, but yeah, it's hard to keep young, educated people in tiny, isolated countries when you can have better professional opportunities by easily moving to Germany, France, or wherever.

You don't even need a work permit. Just go. EU freedom of movement is a huge benefit to the richer countries and major long-term problem for the rest.

They mostly went to the UK, in particular London. That was before Brexit.

That's the negative effect of making English your mandatory foreign language at school. These Eastern countries have produced generations of Anglophones that flocked to the UK. How ridiculous and counter-productive.

In the real world, not everybody needs English, and they should ALSO have taught Russian, German, French, not just English, English, English.

If the UK returns in the EU, I bet a new wave of young Baltics will flock to the UK again.

[iheartthed]

Good luck finding French to be useful just about anywhere except France.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

In the real world, not everybody needs English, and they should ALSO have taught Russian, German, French, not just English, English, English.

Ah ouais...? How about Spanish, Italian or Portuguese? These may be helpful to anybody at times as well. Especially Spanish.
Ok with German. It must be hard, but we could do an effort at it.
Now Russian? No, it is pointless as long as they're a freagin' ugly corrupt dictatorship.
I don't see why people should know how to say bonjour in Russian when they've offended all of us for long.
Too many Russians are still rude. They have no respect.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Good luck finding French to be useful just about anywhere except France.

French is the elite language. You don't belong.
Nah, I'm kidding.