Atlantic Canada airport thread

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by magee_b

But pricing is not up to the airport. It’s up to the airlines.
Pre-Covid the YSJ team had done some market-research to figure out their “leakage” of passengers to other airports. They used this info to negotiate some sort of equalization of Air Canada fares between YSJ/YFC/YQM, which helped somewhat, but cheaper fares will always be found once you have more than one legitimate airline option to take you to your destination.

First steps for the new CEO should be to update their understanding of their market, understand their current leakage, and if it seems greater demand actually exists, create a business case for increased services - then take that to Air Canada for service increases or Porter/WestJet for new service/service resumptions. It may sound modest, but some small wins there with an added frequency or two, or a new daily scheduled national airline partner would go a long way in getting things turned around.

Agree that competition is the key. Getting Porter back here with a Toronto or Montreal flight (preferably both)....or even Ottawa would be huge.

If people had another option to fly out of YSJ and to connect onwards to a selection of destinations it would put significant pressure on AC to step up their game. If nothing else it would add to convenience and reduce leakage to YFC and YQM.

[J81]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

I have to agree with you 100% on this one. At least Saint John is not as bad as Kingston Ontario (CMA population 172k) with minimal flights and recently got the AC-branded bus instead of AC-branded airplanes.

Kingston has 15-16 trains per day to Toronto. That might have something to do with it.

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by J81

Kingston has 15-16 trains per day to Toronto. That might have something to do with it.

…except the trains all go downtown to Union Station which is at least 45 mins away from the airport on a good day, so I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Also, if high-speed rail happens, it will bypass Kingston. I’d say they are in a very similar geographically disadvantaged area like SJ and also get screwed over because of it.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

…except the trains all go downtown to Union Station which is at least 45 mins away from the airport on a good day, so I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Also, if high-speed rail happens, it will bypass Kingston. I’d say they are in a very similar geographically disadvantaged area like SJ and also get screwed over because of it.

There is the UP Express connecting Union Station to Pearson, but, it is an extra step and an extra expense.

[DyAm00394]

The new CEO of the Saint John Airport did an interview with CBC Information Morning: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-2...66-meet-president-ceo-saint-john-airport

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

The new CEO of the Saint John Airport did an interview with CBC Information Morning: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-2...66-meet-president-ceo-saint-john-airport

Interesting how he kept coming back to increasing capacity and flight frequency as the absolute #1 priority. Even when she tried to shift the conversation to land use and the talked about hotel he kind of sloughed that off as being many years in the future and circled back to adding flights, in this case sun destinations.

It was also interesting that he mentioned Ottawa as a destination at least twice.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

That's why I quoted you twice because your 2 posts seem to contradict each other a little. Anyways,

While AC being more useful is true, that still doesn't answer if there's enough anticipated passenger base that isn't already covered by the extra flights announced prior.

Of course it is unfortunate based on many users here from Saint John that not having enough flights to begin with creates an artificial "loss" of people flying out of SJ which creates a vicious cycle of airlines thinking there are no customers from the city.

Genuinely curious if a significant chunk of those 200k cruise passengers need air travel? How many people embark and/or disembark in Saint John?

Now this part I fully agree with. It would be nice not to have to go west in order to keep moving east.

I stand behind both of my quoted statements, but I appreciate you fairly quoting my past words with ample context.

As for the cruise ship numbers, I'm just pointing out that Saint John is a legitimate, seaside tourist destination, which can't be said for North Bay Ontario , or even for Kingston on Lake Ontario. One day we should have passengers embarking and disembarking in Saint John... but we'd likely need to see major upgrades to the Saint John Airport, or see the Fredericton-Saint John International Airport idea realized, to make that possible.

To further clarify my initial thoughts upon first hearing about the PAL pilot program for Atlantic Canada... I was under the assumption that this meant there would be flights between places like Sydney and and Fredericton, but I think my assumption at the time has proven to be a false one. From looking at this map now, I guess it's basically just going to be connecting these 4 airports with Halifax YHZ, not each other. So while I'm still not that worried about YSJ not having connections to Moncton, Fredericton, Charlottetown, and Sydney, I'm definitely worried about Saint John not having as robust connections to Halifax.



I'm not sure these flights have even started up yet, if any of them will be "milk runs", or just all non-stop flights to YHZ... but I'm assuming they will be mostly if not all, daily flights. Saint John - YSJ's connection with Halifax - YHZ is only a 5 times weekly flight. So if these new government subsidized routes are daily flights, that's putting a customers in the Saint John Region at a huge disadvantage. I think the GNB and maybe even the feds (through the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency) should step up and subsidize some new routes between to YSJ.

I think think my idea for some "milk run routes" with a stop in SJ in the middle could work with or without some government subsidies... maybe instead of the YSJ being in the middle, YHZ would be in the middle? I don't like the idea of the "wasted" backtracking, but I'd take what we can get. I just especially like the idea of a single route that connects Saint John to two airports.

All i know for sure is that it was BS that YSJ was left out of the PAL pilot program, and much the same could be said for the decline of flight options for the Saint John airport over the same period of time that the city's population and economy has rebounded in a major way.

I'm glad to hear YSJ's new CEO is laser focussed on increasing flight traffic in and out of the airport. I'll also say it's a good sign that this new CEO was hired for his airline experience, and not a patronage hire that it seems some of the past SJ Airport CEO's have been.

If Court Edeburn does a good job and accomplishes the goals he's set out for YSJ... I don't think he'll be the CEO of YSJ very long, as some other airport will swoop in and offer him a bigger job if he's successful here... but even if he's only here for a short time, he could make a big, long term impact for YSJ! Here's hoping he does!



Finally, I still think it would be in the Saint John Airport's best interest to change its official name. The confusion between the Saint John Airport and St. John's International Airport is not made up, and there's still people mistakenly booking flights to each city. YSJ - Bay of Fundy Airport (Saint John, NB) would put an end to the confusion between the two SJ's airports once and for all... plus the Bay of Fundy is a more more globally recognizable place/ brand than Saint John.


YSJ needs to move on from the Saint John Airport name, yesterday!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

I have to agree with you 100% on this one. At least Saint John is not as bad as Kingston Ontario (CMA population 172k) with minimal flights and recently got the AC-branded bus instead of AC-branded airplanes.

lol, how rare! and a much more polite edited response...

anyways...

Kingston's Airport might somehow have worse flight options than Saint John's Airport, but people in the Saint John region are much more hard up when it comes to getting to bigger airports. People in Kingston have relatively affordable and convenient options to get to the Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal area airports. Saint Johnners have no affordable and convenient options to even get to YFC and YQM... let alone YHZ.

As much as I want to see YSJ have much improved flight options, I also just want to see the Maritimes have much improved bus options, perhaps even including those Air Canada branded busses.

If there was a convenient and affordable way to get to Moncton, Fredericton, or Halifax, I wouldn't think twice about booking through those airports... but currently there isn't such an option... the only real options are driving yourself and dealing with parking, relying on friends and family to drop you off, or some of emerging long distance ride share options.

If an airport bus system was done right, starting with service between the NB tri-cities, it could turn out to be a good thing for all three airports, rather than simply being seen as a literal vehicle to drive their customers to their competitors' airports. (as it would also bring them customers from outside their regions).

Originally Posted by theshark

Apparently there could be an announcement made in the next month regarding this, unsure if its a new carrier or subsidies for the seats.

Was there ever this announcement on improved bus service?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

lol, how rare! and a much more polite edited response...

anyways...

Kingston's Airport might somehow have worse flight options than Saint John's Airport, but people in the Saint John region are much more hard up when it comes to getting to bigger airports. People in Kingston have relatively affordable and convenient options to get to the Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal area airports. Saint Johnners have no affordable and convenient options to even get to YFC and YQM... let alone YHZ.

As much as I want to see YSJ have much improved flight options, I also just want to see the Maritimes have much improved bus options, perhaps even including those Air Canada branded busses.

If there was a convenient and affordable way to get to Moncton, Fredericton, or Halifax, I wouldn't think twice about booking through those airports... but currently there isn't such an option... the only real options are driving yourself and dealing with parking, relying on friends and family to drop you off, or some of emerging long distance ride share options.

If an airport bus system was done right, starting with service between the NB tri-cities, it could turn out to be a good thing for all three airports, rather than simply being seen as a literal vehicle to drive their customers to their competitors' airports. (as it would also bring them customers from outside their regions).



Was there ever this announcement on improved bus service?

Weekly parking at NB airports is pretty inexpensive by most standards (YFC $60, YQM $100 and YSJ $80. I wonder how a return bus fare would compare? Maritime Bus is $59.10 one way for the 250km trip YQM to YHZ

I think driving yourself the 60-90 minutes is always going to be more convenient (unless you simply wanted to avoid driving during the winter months ) and the savings from a bus might not be enough to convince most people not to drive.

[sailor734]

Interesting news about Porter. If this came to pass it would increase their attractiveness for passengers wanting to connect throughout the US and overseas.

https://airpronews.com/2025/12/08/porter...oK7LBXyZXkFm8_aem_bDCb1xhcqYzGvbV_c1MxwA

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Interesting news about Porter. If this came to pass it would increase their attractiveness for passengers wanting to connect throughout the US and overseas.

https://airpronews.com/2025/12/08/porter...oK7LBXyZXkFm8_aem_bDCb1xhcqYzGvbV_c1MxwA

I wonder what that means for Pascan since they have an interline agreement with Porter. Example: Pascan YSJ to YHU/YHZ and then British Airways YHU/YHZ to LHR with no actual Porter plane on either leg but all booked via Flyporter.com. Will Pascan benefit from this if Porter joins OneWorld Connect?

[magee_b]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

I wonder what that means for Pascan since they have an interline agreement with Porter. Example: Pascan YSJ to YHU/YHZ and then British Airways YHU/YHZ to LHR with no actual Porter plane on either leg but all booked via Flyporter.com. Will Pascan benefit from this if Porter joins OneWorld Connect?

There are no BA flights to YHU or YHZ. Can't see this having any real impact on Pascan.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Weekly parking at NB airports is pretty inexpensive by most standards (YFC $60, YQM $100 and YSJ $80. I wonder how a return bus fare would compare? Maritime Bus is $59.10 one way for the 250km trip YQM to YHZ

I think driving yourself the 60-90 minutes is always going to be more convenient (unless you simply wanted to avoid driving during the winter months ) and the savings from a bus might not be enough to convince most people not to drive.

Well, sounds a pretty good target to beat then… make sure the bus is subsidized enough so that it’s cheaper than the price of long term parking, and convenient enough that people actually want to take it.

I’d rather take a bus than drive myself 60 or 90 minutes to another airport. Other than times I’ve driven someone else to an airport, I don’t think I’ve ever driven myself to the airport.

Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton are close enough together that a well funded bus servic between them could actually be quite a convenient option with multiple busses continuously operating daily.

[sailor734]

Who is going to fund this subsidized bus service......and why?

[J81]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

…except the trains all go downtown to Union Station which is at least 45 mins away from the airport on a good day, so I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Also, if high-speed rail happens, it will bypass Kingston. I’d say they are in a very similar geographically disadvantaged area like SJ and also get screwed over because of it.

Its a 20 minute train ride on the UP express. Most ppl in the Kingston area who are just going to drive the 2.5hrs to YYZ or YUL to fly anywhere they want. Jot many would want to deal with connections and lost baggage.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Who is going to fund this subsidized bus service......and why?

The province of NB would be the obvious choice. Maritime Bus already exists, and could be far better funded to provide more affordable, more frequent service.

Then at the local level, regional service commissions and airport authorities could look at funding airport shuttles that cost far less than taxis and ride sharing options.

[sailor734]

With an 800+ million dollar defici, a huge demand for ever increasing healthcare spending, massive delayed infrastructure spending and a public housing crisis, do you really think it likely the province is interested in new spending n something like this?

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

The province of NB would be the obvious choice. Maritime Bus already exists, and could be far better funded to provide more affordable, more frequent service.

Then at the local level, regional service commissions and airport authorities could look at funding airport shuttles that cost far less than taxis and ride sharing options.

Taxis, ride share services, shuttles and regional bus operators are all private businesses. The government can’t really step on their toes and obliterate their revenue, and tiny airports already have a gazillion other things they need to spend money on this may not help their bottom line. Airports need parking revenue and they need ticket sales (nearly half a plane ticket’s cost is airport fees and other surcharges). I think Flair was only making like $36 a seat on those Toronto and Orlando flights.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

With an 800+ million dollar defici, a huge demand for ever increasing healthcare spending, massive delayed infrastructure spending and a public housing crisis, do you really think it likely the province is interested in new spending n something like this?

Yes. Especially if it was just providing better funding support to Maritime bus… we don’t stop investing in tourism and transportation just because we’re in a housing crisis or have an overloaded healthcare system. Funding better busses between Saint John, Fredericton, and Moncton would be a literal drop in the bucket of government spending. The point of funding a better intraprovincial bus service is to help get New Brunswickers to one of our three main airports in a cost effective, environmentally responsible manner.


As for stepping on the toes of regional bus operators, I don’t think Maritime Bus would be turning away subsidies and funding to make their bus a more convenient, affordable option.

On the more local level… do we even have any sort of airport shuttle here in the Saint John Region? I could care less about the government stepping on the toes of ride share apps and taxi companies that charge extortionist rates to drive you to the airport, all while being the most environmentally unfriendly way to get to the airport. We’re a smaller city, with a smaller airport, with not many daily flights. An airport shuttle service is something the Saint John Region should look at investing in.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

As for who should run an airport shuttle service in Saint John. Saint John Transit would be a the logical service provider. I've picked out 3 of the busiest bus stops in Saint John, along with the new, Maritime Bus terminal location on Rothesay Ave, and the former Maritime Bus Station at TD Station, which never should have been changed in the first place.





Saint John transit should and could be a viable option to get to and from the airport. In Montreal such a bus service costs around $10, iirc. I'm sure Saint John transit could charge a similar price for a similar service and run it in line with flights coming in and out of YSJ.

As for Rothesay and Quispamsis (who've recently embraced transit) It could be quite easy to link their two communities with an airport shuttle service that actually went around picking people on the way to the airport. They could also simply add the Saint John Airport as a stop to their transit system if they follow through with their "KV Go" transit pilot program.



Rothesay and Quispamsis are already closer to the Saint John Airport than most of Saint John is, and their residents use the airport in a more frequent basis compared to city residents. I could see an airport shuttle service working quite well there, or adding a KV Go transit stop at YSJ.


Funding express transit routes to YSJ to make it easier for people across the Fundy Region to and from the airport would be a good project for the Fundy Regional Service Commission to facilitate and help better connect this region and its communities to the airport in a more environmentally responsible manner.