The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

As the second red zone deadline recedes into the past, 18 encampments remain (per the city), 15 people total have moved to sanctioned yellow zones, and a dozen vacancies remain at the 54 tiny home units.

Apparently there are 'complex needs' and 'special arrangements' for certain individuals that can only be met by... living in a tent in Waterloo Village and environs. Not sure what those could be. Apparently city staff are FORBIDDEN from accompanying Fresh Start to encampments because of 'privacy and confidentiality concerns.' Nice to finally have clarity on Fresh Start's supremacy over city government. They're also not providing the city data after grudgingly doing so earlier in the fall.

Brain trust on council seems to be finally cluing in, but they're most likely banking on bad weather to kick the can until spring.

I think it's time for council to remind city staff who they work for (hint.....it's not Fresh Start). I also think the city needs to review their relationship with Fresh Start

[bingun]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

As the second red zone deadline recedes into the past, 18 encampments remain (per the city), 15 people total have moved to sanctioned yellow zones, and a dozen vacancies remain at the 54 tiny home units.

Apparently there are 'complex needs' and 'special arrangements' for certain individuals that can only be met by... living in a tent in Waterloo Village and environs. Not sure what those could be. Apparently city staff are FORBIDDEN from accompanying Fresh Start to encampments because of 'privacy and confidentiality concerns.' Nice to finally have clarity on Fresh Start's supremacy over city government. They're also not providing the city data after grudgingly doing so earlier in the fall.

Brain trust on council seems to be finally cluing in, but they're most likely banking on bad weather to kick the can until spring.

It's complete nonsense and has been since the start. Somehow, they were going to go around in a month and ask all the folks living in tents nicely to move somewhere else, followed by Fresh Start and city employees clapping and patting each other on the back.

The privacy and confidentiality comment is hilarious. If I set up a tent in Rockwood Park, apparently the city workers can't talk to me, let alone tell me to pack up and leave, since it's now my home.

I am glad that some of them have moved to the more formal sites on Thorne Avenue, and hopefully, those are the ones that have a chance of returning to normal.

I assume you also saw they are hiring two private security guards to patrol Thorne Avenue, Waterloo Village, and Uptown 24/7, similar to the ones that are at Market Square/Fundy Quay now. The poor folks they hire on minimum wage to do that job are going to be traumatized in no time.

[sailor734]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...all-encampment-ban-fresh-start-9.6999220

In terms of the city and this Fresh Start organization it really sounds like a case of the tail wagging the dog.

Where does Fresh Start get their money? I assume it's largely various levels of government. Is it these guys or Avenue B that was rumoured to rent office space from David Hickey? (asking for a friend )


From AI.........


Fresh Start in Saint John, NB receives funding from multiple sources, including government grants from both the federal and provincial governments for homelessness prevention and support programs. Additionally, the organization relies on private donations from individuals and local businesses, and some of its programs may be funded by the city through its own housing strategies.
Government funding
Federal: The federal government provides funding through programs like Canada's Homelessness Strategy, with recent agreements providing millions to New Brunswick to tackle homelessness.
Provincial: The Province of New Brunswick contributes to homelessness initiatives through affordable and social housing subsidies and through emergency funds for non-profit housing organizations.
Municipal: The City of Saint John has its own housing strategy and has entered into agreements with the federal and provincial governments to fund housing initiatives.
Other funding sources
Private donations: Fresh Start Services relies on the generosity of the public for donations to support its homelessness prevention work.
Local businesses: Local businesses provide support through event sponsorships and other donations.
City initiatives: The City of Saint John's "Housing for All" strategy and other related projects may also provide funding or in-kind support for programs that help those experiencing or at risk of homelessness.


They keep cashing the government cheques and the homeless problem keeps growing. Makes you wonder what they are actually accomplishing?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

For those who don't check the airport thread... some major news regarding YSJ.

Originally Posted by bingun

Saint John Airport names new CEO

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/saint-john-airport-names-new-ceo

[bingun]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

There is a committee of the whole item at tonight's council meeting regarding an update on the property JN Lafford Realty Inc is purchasing at 324 Charlotte Street:

"Amended and restated agreement of purchase and sale at 324 Charlotte Street".

They finally posted the details. The parcel mentioned is the triangular-shaped one, closer to Tin Can Beach.

On February 19, 2025, the City entered into an Agreement of Purchase and Sale with J.N. Lafford Realty Inc. for two PIDs comprising a 2.5-acre property at 324 Charlotte Street. During the due diligence period, the purchaser identified a title issue with one parcel (PID 55147482). On May 5, an extension was granted to allow additional time to address this title issue. On November 18th, 2025, J.N. Lafford confirmed in writing to the City of Saint John that they accept the title as is and remain committed to completing the purchase of 324 Charlotte Street. Due to delays in resolving the title issue, the purchaser has requested extensions to the Deposit Date, Closing Date, and Failure to Build date.

COUNCIL RESOLUTION

That the City enter into an Amended and Restated Agreement of Purchase and Sale for the property located at 324 Charlotte Street with J.N. LaffordRealty Inc. (hereinafter “Lafford”) in the form as presented to Committee of the Whole at its meeting held December 1, 2025, amending the Agreement of Purchase and Sale between the City and Lafford dated February 19, 2025, and that the Mayor and Clerk be authorized to execute the said Amended and Restated Agreement of Purchase and Sale and any documents ancillary thereto.

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Did anyone see or understand another item about selling a piece of property 75 Smythe St / right of first refusal sell under a lease agreement to an NB numbered company the assignee to Hardman Group? I’m not catching what they are saying. That’s the Hilton Hotel. Maybe that has something to do with dropping Hilton management and marketing.

Update: The document is now available: https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=24544

"SUBJECT: Committee of the Whole OPEN facing report - ROFR Market Square.docx

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE REPORT FOR OPEN SESSION OF COUNCIL

At its meeting held October 28, 2024, Council resolved to sell the parcel of land at 75 Smythe Street (PID 55024251) and to issue to the Hardman Group Limited written notice setting out the terms and conditions upon which the City is prepared to sell its interest in the parcel of land at 75 Smythe Street (PID 55024251) in accordance with section 27 of the Lease between the City and the Hardman Group Limited (the “Lease”). The Hardman Group Limited elected to exercise its Right of First Refusal, and afterwards assigned its interest in the Lease to 752472 N.B. Inc. The purpose of the report is to seek authority for the City to close the transaction.

COUNCIL RESOLUTION

That the City sell the parcel of land bearing PID 55024251 to 752472 N.B. Inc., the assignee to the Hardman Group Limited (“HGL”), pursuant to the January 24, 2025 election by HGL to exercise its Right of First Refusal under a Lease between the City and HGL dated October 14, 1980, as amended; and that the Mayor and Clerk be authorized to execute the necessary documents to effect the land transaction".

[bingun]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Update: The document is now available: https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=24544

"SUBJECT: Committee of the Whole OPEN facing report - ROFR Market Square.docx

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE REPORT FOR OPEN SESSION OF COUNCIL

At its meeting held October 28, 2024, Council resolved to sell the parcel of land at 75 Smythe Street (PID 55024251) and to issue to the Hardman Group Limited written notice setting out the terms and conditions upon which the City is prepared to sell its interest in the parcel of land at 75 Smythe Street (PID 55024251) in accordance with section 27 of the Lease between the City and the Hardman Group Limited (the “Lease”). The Hardman Group Limited elected to exercise its Right of First Refusal, and afterwards assigned its interest in the Lease to 752472 N.B. Inc. The purpose of the report is to seek authority for the City to close the transaction.

COUNCIL RESOLUTION

That the City sell the parcel of land bearing PID 55024251 to 752472 N.B. Inc., the assignee to the Hardman Group Limited (“HGL”), pursuant to the January 24, 2025 election by HGL to exercise its Right of First Refusal under a Lease between the City and HGL dated October 14, 1980, as amended; and that the Mayor and Clerk be authorized to execute the necessary documents to effect the land transaction".

Hilton to be rebranded as Saint John Harbourfront Hotel in new year

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/hilton-...aint-john-harbourfront-hotel-in-new-year

The Hilton Saint John will be known as the Saint John Harbourfront Hotel beginning in February 2026 after InnVest Hotels opted not to renew the licensing with Hilton and will, instead, operate the location as an independent hotel, InnVest’s executive vice president of asset management and investment, Jeff Hyslop, told Brunswick News.

“There’s just over 20 years left on the lease” and it made more economic sense not to renew the licence with Hilton, said Hyslop, noting the rebranding won’t mean major changes for the uptown location, which has served as a Hilton hotel for four decades.

Hyslop said visitors to the hotel won’t notice any major changes other than the rebranding. He also noted the change doesn’t necessarily mean any investment in the site.

“There’s no formal announcement in regards to future refurbishments,” he said noting as InnVest’s “plan evolves” that may change as the company “continues to invest in our hotels.”

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by bingun

Hilton to be rebranded as Saint John Harbourfront Hotel in new year

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/hilton-...aint-john-harbourfront-hotel-in-new-year

That’s disappointing. The brand matters to me because it gives assurance of a standard of quality. It’s also a world-wide recognizable name in a prominent location. Hopefully we’ll get a high-end well-known hotel brand at Fundy Quay but that’s going to be many years away. For example: Even though Chateau Saint John looks like an acceptable hotel, the brand doesn’t give me much confidence it’s going to better than a Best Western or Garden Inn, or something where at least you know what you’re getting.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

That’s disappointing. The brand matters to me because it gives assurance of a standard of quality. It’s also a world-wide recognizable name in a prominent location. Hopefully we’ll get a high-end well-known hotel brand at Fundy Quay but that’s going to be many years away. For example: Even though Chateau Saint John looks like an acceptable hotel, the brand doesn’t give me much confidence it’s going to better than a Best Western or Garden Inn, or something where at least you know what you’re getting.

Another issue is the loss of loyalty points. Among regular business travellers this can really matter as the perks really add up. Especially once you reach the higher tiers as many business travellers do. Programs like Hilton Honors and Marriott Bonvoy provide free nights, room upgrades and a variety of other perks like early checkin/late checkout etc

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

It's really too bad to hear the plan seems to be to keep the hotel largely unchanged other than the name change. Losing that Hilton name on the harbourfront skyline will be a significant loss for the city, regardless of how dumpy and dated the hotel may have become.

I think an ideal situation for that building would be something like 60-70% condos, 30-40% high end hotel, like the Canvas Moncton (Tapestry Collection by Hilton), or another major hotel brand with real heft like Hyatt.

This is a major loss for the Saint John brand and hotel industry. Hopefully a developer with some long term vision will come along eventually and redevelop this building into something to be proud of again... as this hotel definitely used to be something to be proud of.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

It's really too bad to hear the plan seems to be to keep the hotel largely unchanged other than the name change. Losing that Hilton name on the harbourfront skyline will be a significant loss for the city, regardless of how dumpy and dated the hotel may have become.

I think an ideal situation for that building would be something like 60-70% condos, 30-40% high end hotel, like the Canvas Moncton (Tapestry Collection by Hilton), or another major hotel brand with real heft like Hyatt.

This is a major loss for the Saint John brand and hotel industry. Hopefully a developer with some long term vision will come along eventually and redevelop this building into something to be proud of again... as this hotel definitely used to be something to be proud of.

I don’t see it as such a big deal. Halifax has a lot of well known hotels that dropped branding or just go it alone and do well: Hotel Halifax; Barrington Hotel; Hotel Atlantica; Cambridge Suites; The Prince George Hotel; The Lord Nelson

[sailor734]

I don't think the branding is the only issue here. The hotel simply hasn't been refreshed and regularly refurbished to maintain it's original standards.

AFAIK both uptown hotels have suffered occupancy challenges in recent years (first Covid then lack of business travel springing back to pre Covid levels).

I've been told that another part of the problem is declining convention/meeting/conference business. The Trade and Convention Centre is approaching 50 years old and and while it's had a soft goods refresh and some tech updates it's design lacks modern features (space flexibility, number of breakout rooms etc). The lack of seat capacity in and out of YSJ also contributes to the problem for hosting anything other than local, provincial or regional events where most participants can drive.

The idea of a mixed residential/hotel development may well be something Fundy Quay will be considering. I would think steady rental income would be very welcome during the winter months when weekday hotel occupancy rates crater.

[darkharbour]

I'll choose to look at this positively and say that this rebranding means a hotel chain - including another Hilton brand - will be more likely to be investing into a new hotel as part of Fundy Quay in the next few years.

[irisheyes]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I'll choose to look at this positively and say that this rebranding means a hotel chain - including another Hilton brand - will be more likely to be investing into a new hotel as part of Fundy Quay in the next few years.

I agree with you entirely. And I also agree with another user saying an independent brand is not a bad thing as we see in Halifax and Chateau Saint John.

An independent hotel can foster its own feel and sense of place, which can be very charming especially in a city like ours.

[bingun]

I think ultimately, people just want the hotel to get its act together and make some investments, regardless of whether it's a Hilton or not.

Along with the Delta, it's one of the two prominent uptown hotels, and when business travellers or visitors stay there, we don't want their impression of it to be that it is run-down and stale. That impression can rub off on people, making the city as a whole seem less appealing.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

I think ultimately, people just want the hotel to get its act together and make some investments, regardless of whether it's a Hilton or not.

Along with the Delta, it's one of the two prominent uptown hotels, and when business travellers or visitors stay there, we don't want their impression of it to be that it is run-down and stale. That impression can rub off on people, making the city as a whole seem less appealing.

Marriott bought Delta Hotels in 2015 and spent the next 5 years or so bringing the physical products of the chain up to snuff. Our local Delta got a major refurb in 2018-2019 and by all accounts it was badly needed.


AI suggests the following is a reasonable schedule for larger urban hotels......

Renovation Cycles
Minor Refreshes (Every 3-7 Years): Focus on soft goods, paint, lighting, and furniture (FF&E) to keep things looking current.
Major Renovations (Every 10-15 Years): Involve deeper work like new carpets, updated fixtures, millwork, and potentially bathrooms, with larger projects sometimes every 50 years.
Continuous Maintenance: Ongoing work throughout the year for immediate repairs and upkeep.

From what I can find online the last minor refresh at the Hilton was around 2012-2013.

While I'm sure Covid threw a wrench into lots of hotel rono plans, if the product is not maintained the hotel will spiral downwards.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Public open house on December 16th.

Reposting another YSJ related post as some of y’all might not check out the Atlantic Canada Airport thread.

Could be a good opportunity to meet the new CEO of YSJ.





I might have to print this off and see if the new CEO is a little more positive about the prospects of tri-city routes via YSJ than the Haligonians in the Atlantic Canada Airport thread.

[cdnguys]

This item caught my eye because it’s awaiting funding from the Canadian Housing Infrastructure Fund - basically The Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund (CHIF) has been created to accelerate the construction and upgrading of essential infrastructure to support housing development. This is most likely related to the Lafford project.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

This item caught my eye because it’s awaiting funding from the Canadian Housing Infrastructure Fund - basically The Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund (CHIF) has been created to accelerate the construction and upgrading of essential infrastructure to support housing development. This is most likely related to the Lafford project.

Yes, I see that an updated 5-year capital plan is on the docket for tomorrow's finance committee meeting.

From my memory of the last draft, they have to rip up that whole street for the stormwater outfall, so it makes sense to rebuild the street to new standards. Hopefully, this will support Lafford's project and the Landmark, if that is ever revived; otherwise, it will be a beautiful street that no one uses lol. I guess it is also important for the Lantic site, if there is movement there eventually.

This latest version looks quite similar to the last but some highlights -

Roundabouts

• 2026 - Airport
• 2027 - Gault Road
• 2029 - Rothesay Road/Ashburn

City Market

• 2026 - Platform/Seating
• 2027 - New Washrooms/6 New Kiosks
• 2028 - South Market St Renewal (directly next to 99 King St)
• 2029 - Second Level Space/New Elevator
• 2030 - Community Kitchen
• 2031 - Renew Germain St exterior area, including outside Uncorked space
• 2032 - Create a Patio above the Germain St Atrium

Parks/Recreation

• Shamrock Park - New Tennis Courts, Emera Field Renewal, Dog Park, New Playground, Basketball Court, Buy Centennial School Land (Various).
• Various Playground Improvements
• King St Trail Upgrade (2029)
• Ball Hockey/Basketball at Market Place West (2030)
• Seaside Park (2029)(finally)
• Rockwood Park A Frame Replacement (2030)

New traffic light system at University/Millidgeville Avenue, by the new McDonald's (2027), at Haymarket Sq (2028), Somerset/Barker (2029).

$5M for the Multipurpose Recreational Facility in 2029. I assume this is when they want to start building it.

$3M estimated for Simms Corner - no year specified

Sugar Refinery Site Redevelopment (2029)

[adamuptownsj]

My thoughts...

One roundabout a year is pretty slow, lol. It's interesting the Sandy Point/Foster Thurston one was ranked #3 by priority in the 'original roundabout report' but happened first. Airport was not ranked, Gault/Manawagonish was #4 and Rothesauy/Ashburn was #2 (Millidge/Somerset was #5 and Simm's #1).

Market changes are welcome, but I think a second floor at the Germain end would really negatively impact the look of the market for limited benefit. Hope they rethink this. Seeing the public space along Germain get revamped will be great though.

Shamrock Park plans should include a trail to Rockwood following the transmission lines as mentioned in the North End Plan. Would be a great and dirt-cheap feature to build. Maybe bully NB Power into constructing it. Go from the tennis courts straight to Fisher Lakes near the water tower.

A-Frame and Seaside a decade or more overdue. Can't the city scare up a corporate sponsor or get a nonprofit do a fundraiser for things like the A-Frame?

$3M won't go too far at Simm's, unless they're taking my advice and expropriating the Tim Horton's to connect Main and Fairville. I assume this is just design services.

Lantic Sugar redevelopment will be extremely complicated from a geoengineering perspective alone. Wonder if it's just going to be green space, which isn't too bad.