[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[JakeNB]

I sent them a message with my idea for a medical arts mall

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

CEO who hates 'empty buildings' wants advice on revitalizing Uptown Saint John mall

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-uptown-mall-9.6935082

Mr. Poladian, the new CEO of Ravelin seems to actually care, which is good!

I still think there's a strong economic case for building up the Brunswick Square Tower to it's 36 storey designed limit. That would be 17 more storeys with ocean views in the most centrally located area in the city.

Ravelin is based out of Toronto and they have all kinds of connections with property developers there that could be interested in investing in ocean view real estate in Saint John, which is only one quick flight away from Toronto.







Having hundreds of housing units at Brunswick Square would be a huge boost for the mall below, and would further help make the case for a major grocery store brand to expand into to Brunswick Square.

I like Jake's idea of a "medical arts mall" as well, but probably more for the lower storeys of the Brunswick Square Tower, rather than the mall itself. Maybe there's a business case to keep some office space, but I think they could quite easily squeeze their current tenants across 5 or so floors, with maybe another 5 floors dedicated to medical offices?

If they did build the building up to its 36 storey potential, that would leave 26 floors for residential developments.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by bingun

Chipman Hill Suites posted on Facebook that they will no longer be operating their 71 Sydney location as of next weekend. This is the building behind the Irving Oil HQ.

Does anybody know what is happening? It is a beautiful building. I hope it isn't going anywhere. I am not sure if it is considered heritage or not.

I saw another Facebook post about this today. Chipman Hill Suites is liquidating all of the contents of the building in a few weeks (furniture, decor, etc.).

There is a comment saying something along the lines of, "What happens next is up to Irving Oil."

This feels like a sale is planned, but it seems odd that they wouldn't retain anything. Perhaps it's too complicated if all the contents are owned by Chipman.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by bingun

I saw another Facebook post about this today. Chipman Hill Suites is liquidating all of the contents of the building in a few weeks (furniture, decor, etc.).

There is a comment saying something along the lines of, "What happens next is up to Irving Oil."

This feels like a sale is planned, but it seems odd that they wouldn't retain anything. Perhaps it's too complicated if all the contents are owned by Chipman.

Also for sale is the Irving Estate in Rothesay, Golden Ball and apparently the Sydney St streetscape they own across the street up to old courthouse.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Also for sale is the Irving Estate in Rothesay, Golden Ball and apparently the Sydney St streetscape they own across the street up to old courthouse.

All the uptown properties you list are Irving Oil. I believe the Rothesay house that is on the market was JK and Jean Irving's (JDI)

[michael_d40]

Looks like the Golden Ball Building is Under Agreement.
https://sjcommercialre.com/10-sydney/

[bingun]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Also for sale is the Irving Estate in Rothesay, Golden Ball and apparently the Sydney St streetscape they own across the street up to old courthouse.

Yes, I understand it is Irving Oil, but if they were just selling it, you would think they would consider letting Chipman purchase it, or keeping it in a similar state during showings to allow another hotel-style business to open quickly or to appreciate its character.

Liquidating everything but the kitchen sink is a curious choice.

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Looks like the Golden Ball Building is Under Agreement.
https://sjcommercialre.com/10-sydney/

That was quick!

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Looks like the Golden Ball Building is Under Agreement.
https://sjcommercialre.com/10-sydney/

I’d place a bet JDI bought it - maybe for executive offices. They have no room to grow in their 13 story HQ. Plus the 1/2 of the parking lot where the gas bar was. Brick pathway right to the side door of their Union St building

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I’d place a bet JDI bought it - maybe for executive offices. They have no room to grow in their 13 story HQ. Plus the 1/2 of the parking lot where the gas bar was. Brick pathway right to the side door of their Union St building

Possibly, although given their past it seems odd that they bothered to publicly list it. You’d think IOL would have asked JDI about their interest long before we got to the point of hiring an agent.

[sailor734]

Same problems......different city

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/downtown-oshawa-businesses-back-door-mission-9.6940212

[bingun]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Possibly, although given their past it seems odd that they bothered to publicly list it. You’d think IOL would have asked JDI about their interest long before we got to the point of hiring an agent.

Yes, while they might have their differences these days, they would have figured out a private sale if there was serious interest.

I am not sure if JDI would consider it. At the end of the day, it's a money sink and will require serious investment to be usable in the long term. Perhaps Jim is sentimental about the place.

Their head office is probably full again with their return to the office, but they have lots of other sites dotted around the city that they could use.

I am still surprised they chose to relocate CFM to Thorne Avenue, where it is surrounded by shelters and transitional housing. I am sure their private police force keeps a close eye on things, but it's not ideal.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by bingun

Yes, while they might have their differences these days, they would have figured out a private sale if there was serious interest.

I am not sure if JDI would consider it. At the end of the day, it's a money sink and will require serious investment to be usable in the long term. Perhaps Jim is sentimental about the place.

Their head office is probably full again with their return to the office, but they have lots of other sites dotted around the city that they could use.

I am still surprised they chose to relocate CFM to Thorne Avenue, where it is surrounded by shelters and transitional housing. I am sure their private police force keeps a close eye on things, but it's not ideal.

There are no Irving family members left at the company. Basically now a trust fund run by board of directors. The last Irving was Sarah and she left in 2024. There are no thanksgiving dinners where they get together to say “hey you interested in the golden ball before we list it?”

[bingun]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There are no Irving family members left at the company. Basically now a trust fund run by board of directors. The last Irving was Sarah and she left in 2024. There are no thanksgiving dinners where they get together to say “hey you interested in the golden ball before we list it?”

Don't be naive, they are still heavily connected to one another. While the Irvings may not be directly involved in the day-to-day at IOL, they are still the owners and would be directing that board to sell one of their family's historic properties.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

It would be a great thing to see someone take a stab at some diagrams of Fundy Quay for the SSP database, like the diagram for Brunswick Square. I'm more of a photoshop guy than a diagrammer, but maybe I'll have to give it a try.

Then we could make a request for a database editor to add a header like this to the Fundy Quay thread.



I guess we could still make a request without a diagram yet completed, but it would be sure nice to see it added to visual graph!



Uptown Saint John really does have one of the better skylines in Canada for a city of its size, but one look at the dates in the graph above shows that it's barely grown in the past 40. Fundy Quay and 99 King will certainly help fill it out some more, but i think we're still missing an art deco icon hospital hill.

Pardon this crude AI render that I posted before, but how amazing would it be for something even slightly like this go up on hospital hill one day?

[dalmik]

Irving demo'd the old Dominion Store bldg on King's Square today?

[homebody]

Originally Posted by dalmik

Irving demo'd the old Dominion Store bldg on King's Square today?

More parking ya think?

[bingun]

I had noticed they'd closed part of the sidewalk earlier in the week, but I had no idea they planned to demo it. I drove by just now, and it's half gone already.

I know it shows sold in 2022, but was that actually a sale or some internal Irving accounting? 42M means it was a part of a much bigger transaction. The parking lot is also split into two, with a small section included in that 42M transaction and the larger section not included.

[Franco401]

The $42M transaction also includes the Golden Ball and part of the adjacent parking lot.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by Franco401

The $42M transaction also includes the Golden Ball and part of the adjacent parking lot.

Thanks, I didn't check that. This implies it is still an Irving property.

Maybe they are clearing the site before they advertise it for sale? It feels odd they wouldn't try to sell it as is first if that were the case. I fear it will just be some extra parking spaces for their head office employees.

[darkharbour]

Everything they touch Uptown turns to dust, they are awful urban land owners. Sure the IOL HQ turned out fine, but the con they played with the city for its parking garage after the fact was slimy (and could be seen coming a mile away).

And that’s ignoring the JDI side of the coin and their hoarding of land for decades, devaluing neighbouring properties, acquiring more as people move out, only to eventually tear them down then have the audacity to complain publicly about the state of the Uptown.