[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

I don't think we need to talk it down too much. At the end of the day, Barry has tried his best here with the funds available. A full-size functioning replica would be amazing, but it would also be a very costly endeavour. I hope they open it up somewhat, as I think kids would enjoy it.

To me, it's just a minor attraction or stop on Harbour Passage for tourists heading up to Reversing Falls or the NB Museum. Perhaps some of the walking tours can stop by and provide a more detailed explanation.

Originally Posted by sailor734

I agree. At the end of the day I'll just say it is unfortunate that this project never got the support and funding from government/major corporations etc I think it deserved and leave it at that.

After all, remember what Thumper's mom taught him.

I agree there's no need to talk this project down too much. Like, it's certainly something, and it does have potential to be something really fun and creative.

Still, this is a project on public land, and in our city centre... I think it's totally fair to have a critical discussion on how the future of this project. Like for $3.1 million dollars, I think there's a lot of other projects that would have benefitted the city more than this.

I hope it's not taken too seriously as a sort of "monument" or whatever, and that's it's made fully accessible and safe for the public to actually hop on board and enjoy.

I'm not sure how much more private/government funding this projects (a non floating replica) should have got or deserved. If anything, I think this project actually got a little more funding than it really deserved... as it's a non floating replica. Had the project been for a floating replica, then yes, I'd 100% agree that it should have gotten more funding than it did, including from the government.

I think the best case scenario for this project, is for it to lead to the commissioning of a floating, Marco Polo II replica, or purchase of an existing tall ship that could be retrofitted to become the Marco Polo II.

Saint John deserves to have at least one tall ship floating in the harbour again... or at least get one of the frigates back as a Museum Ship... but having both would be even better.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

That was wayyy more gimmicky than I expected.
Either have a full sized replica that sites in the harbour or at least right close to it, so people can explore the ship, the size etc. That'd be a great little attraction.

Instead this half pint sized ship with telephone masts? It's like they wanted to do a mural/statue but thought it was cheaper than building a rock/marble statue.

The small scale replica by the library is way more useful as of "what it used to look like" then this thing.

Yeah I guess I was trying to keep it positively in my choice of words that this project is coming together, "nicely". 😅

It's absolutely a lot more gimmicky than I thought it would be, especially the freaking telephone polls for masts. Gimmicky and fun could be fine, though, especially the proponents of the project don't take itself too seriously as some sort of monument to shipbuilding or whatever, and it's seen more as something fun and creative, almost something play-structure adjacent for kids. I don't really understand why they stuck it exactly where they did, instead of somewhere closer to the water... but at least if we're eventually able to get up on deck, we'll have a pretty decent view of the harbour, and it will sort of feel like your on a real ship beside the sea. lol



However, we don't yet know how accessible this thing is actually going to end up being. I don't want to sound cynical, but it almost seems like the deck of the "ship" is not going to be made accessible to the public, and it's just going to be seen as a sort of statue. I really hope that's not the case, as I think people will still find ways to get board, and any sort of "keep off" signs will be seen as more of a dare than anything else. Hopefully it's not a situation where the only "kid" who gets to play on this thing is a 69 year old boomer named Barry Ogden. 😅 ⚓️

Supposedly this Marco Polo replica project has cost more than $3 million.

In comparison, the Bluenose II (pictured below) cost Nova Scotia's Oland Breweries around $300,000 in 1963 (over $2.5 million adjusted for inflation) and the people of Nova Scotia actually got a working, floating ship out of it.



Subsequent maintenance/rebuilding of the Bluenose II has cost into the tens of millions, but that was only after the ownership of the ship was transferred to the province of Nova Scotia, and subsequent maintenance and rebuilding was managed and funded by the provincial and federal governments... so not exactly shocking costs went completely out of control.

Personally, I hope this replica can help lead to a floating replica being built one day, which imo, would be a far more worthwhile project to spend multiple millions on, and the type of project that would make a lot more sense to qualify for provincial and federal funding. A ship is quite literally the symbol of New Brunswick, and Saint John built thousands of ships over its history, and I believe Saint John has built more ships than any other city in Canada.

I think a Marco Polo II museum ship would be a tremendous project that could be be part of the future of the New Brunswick Museum, and could be a significant tourism pull for Saint John. If I recall correctly, Barry and his team actually have plans drawn up for a 1:1 replica with a steel hull, but clearly, such a project would cost a more than $3 million.


The steel hulled tall ship, Moshulu, in Philadelphia. (It even looks a bit like the Marco Polo! )

New Brunswick has multiple billionaire families, and again, is the only province in Canada with a ship on its flag... I think a Marco Polo II project is well within the realm of possible. Maybe, just maybe, this non floating replica project will help get a floating Marco Polo II replica built one day. If Nova Scotia can do it... we can too! And we should!

I think the Irving Family along with the McCains and some other very wealthy NB families could pool together the necessary funds for a steel hulled Marco Polo II replica to be gifted to the province of NB or the NB Museum, and which the Province and Federal Government would eventually pay to maintain... as is done with the Bluenose II in Nova Scotia.

[bingun]

As it relates to the City Market, the old Slocum & Ferris spot is now fully enclosed for reconstruction. I expect it will be like this for a few months based on the last unit they did.

So far, there is no activity where The Bagel Artist will move to, nor Billy's Seafood's old spot, nor where Chicken by Felix will move.

I have noticed that the old Heartbreak Boutique location on Germain, below the Masonic Temple, and next to Suwanna is undergoing renovations. I have no idea if they have a tenant or are just getting into better condition.

I think Let's Hummus have also done some renovations, although I have not visited recently.

Britt's new patio on Princess Street also seems to have been a success. When I have walked past a few times on cruise days, it has been quite busy. Hopefully, it becomes an annual feature.

Lastly, the location of the old Barbour's General Store has undergone some minor landscaping to make it more presentable. I didn't see anything major about this in their draft capital plan, which has me worried the location will remain like this for some time.

[DyAm00394]

Found a listing for 10 Sydney Street, (the Irving Golden Ball building). There is a mention of possible redevelopment option of tearing down and rebuild subject to zoning. https://sjcommercialre.com/10-sydney/

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Found a listing for 10 Sydney Street, (the Irving Golden Ball building). There is a mention of possible redevelopment option of tearing down and rebuild subject to zoning. https://sjcommercialre.com/10-sydney/

Saw this as well. I thought I read on here somewhere that Irving Oil was at full capacity at HQ and this building. Looks like that isn't the case for this building. Did something change or was that not accurate information.

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Saw this as well. I thought I read on here somewhere that Irving Oil was at full capacity at HQ and this building. Looks like that isn't the case for this building. Did something change or was that not accurate information.

The Crown St building is the one that is full.

[bingun]

Chipman Hill Suites posted on Facebook that they will no longer be operating their 71 Sydney location as of next weekend. This is the building behind the Irving Oil HQ.

Does anybody know what is happening? It is a beautiful building. I hope it isn't going anywhere. I am not sure if it is considered heritage or not.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by bingun

Chipman Hill Suites posted on Facebook that they will no longer be operating their 71 Sydney location as of next weekend. This is the building behind the Irving Oil HQ.

Does anybody know what is happening? It is a beautiful building. I hope it isn't going anywhere. I am not sure if it is considered heritage or not.

It's a heritage property. Maybe they're selling it.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

Chipman Hill Suites posted on Facebook that they will no longer be operating their 71 Sydney location as of next weekend. This is the building behind the Irving Oil HQ.

Does anybody know what is happening? It is a beautiful building. I hope it isn't going anywhere. I am not sure if it is considered heritage or not.

I remember eating there several times when it was an inn with a quite a good dining room. Parker House Inn.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It's a heritage property. Maybe they're selling it.

I am glad to hear that, and yes, I hope it's retained for a similar use. I had family stay there several years ago, and it gave their stay a more unique feel than one of the general hotels like the Delta or Hilton.

[darkharbour]

Concrete forms are now being assembled for the footings of the new South End K-8 school.

We don't talk about it a lot because it's not a commercial development, but as someone who was part of the early advocacy about that school back 10-15 years ago, I do think that this infrastructure investment in the urban core is one of the most significant drivers for change we have seen Uptown in decades.

[KnoxfordGuy]

I stayed in that Chipman property. It's beautiful.

[Joe]

I believe the 71 Sydney location was purchased by IOL before the construction of their HQ, Chipman Hill Suites continued to run it. If it will be placed on the market perhaps its a change in company policy now that none of the Irving's are running the company, divesting themselves of properties that are not needed for the core business.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by Joe

I believe the 71 Sydney location was purchased by IOL before the construction of their HQ, Chipman Hill Suites continued to run it. If it will be placed on the market perhaps its a change in company policy now that none of the Irving's are running the company, divesting themselves of properties that are not needed for the core business.

If that is the case, I pray that they divest the empty lot on the corner of Princess and Charlotte—such great potential.

[bingun]

The TJ picked up on the Irving properties for sale, but provided little additional information. I think Stephanie's idea that it could be purchased as an owner-occupier is a bit out there.

Realtor Stephanie Turner of Cushman & Wakefield, who is acting as agent for all five properties, told Brunswick News the Golden Ball building has potential for a variety of uses.

“Just from a marketing perspective, we’re trying to get people’s creative juices flowing a little bit,” she said. “It was an office building but does it need to remain an office building? Who knows? There’s opportunity for development, not just with the building itself but the property.”

The five-storey commercial building, which is currently vacant, has a total of 68,957 square feet. It sits on little more than half an acre of land, with a small parking lot with access to both Union and Carmarthen streets. Turner said the building is ideal for owner occupier, could be used as a multi-tenant commercial building or someone may even want to raze and rebuild on the site, subject to zoning.

Irving Oil corporate communications spokesperson Katherine d’Entremont didn’t answer specific questions pertaining to the potential sale of the properties, but did say in an e-mail to Brunswick News the company is ” exploring all options for the Golden Ball property, including its sale.”

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/five-ir...citys-uptown?itm_source=saint-john-south

JLM Patisserie, which is currently on Princess St, is relocating to Charlotte, based on their Facebook page. I think they are occupying the spot where the orthodontist used to be.

Also, the Wild Carrot's old spot in the city market is now also enclosed, like Slocum and Ferris. I am glad to see that they are going to work on both simultaneously rather than one at a time.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

The TJ picked up on the Irving properties for sale, but provided little additional information. I think Stephanie's idea that it could be purchased as an owner-occupier is a bit out there.



https://tj.news/saint-john-south/five-ir...citys-uptown?itm_source=saint-john-south

JLM Patisserie, which is currently on Princess St, is relocating to Charlotte, based on their Facebook page. I think they are occupying the spot where the orthodontist used to be.

Also, the Wild Carrot's old spot in the city market is now also enclosed, like Slocum and Ferris. I am glad to see that they are going to work on both simultaneously rather than one at a time.

I have heard the former Wild Carrot spot will become the new Chicken by Felix.....and their former location will see City Market Greengrocer expand (they will lose space when the center aisle disappears with the remodeling) Still not sure about that whole concept.

I'm told the former Slocum and Ferris space will be a new, larger Kim's Korean while Kim's old space may see Jerimiah's expand. I'm told Jerimiah's is looking at a larger kitchen with grills and fryers. Maybe fish and chips, burgers and fries etc.

[DyAm00394]

Fundy Harbour Group has now just posted a leasing listing for Market Square on the City Feet website. 10 spaces are available.

https://www.cityfeet.com/cont/listing/on...3512?sk=43f0763a6cf24c5c92a4db3bf860f573

[darkharbour]

The six-story building on Crown between Leinster and Princess is coming along quite quickly, they already have the first floor concrete poured. After years of inactivity it's nice to see this one speeding up.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

[IMG] [/IMG]

Looking forward to seeing the progress of this one. As Sailor pondered in the main Saint John thread, I also wonder if this will be a concrete or wood framed construction. If it's concrete I think it will be an even more desirable place to live, as it would likely have superior sound deadening properties.

However, I assume it will be a wood framed construction, as it's only going to be six storeys, but that makes me wonder something else.

Maybe one of the more cost effective options we have for taller infill developments in Saint John is to build 6 storeys on top of a wider, 2-3 storey concrete podiums?

I think there's quite a few properties around the Central Peninsula and other parts of the city where this type of development could be popular and offer incredible views.

This development on Leinster St is going to have an incredible view from 6 storeys up, and a pretty great view even on the first floor. More of this.

[bingun]

CEO who hates 'empty buildings' wants advice on revitalizing Uptown Saint John mall

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-uptown-mall-9.6935082

There has been discussion of Brunswick Square filling some critical needs, like hosting a grocery store to serve the growing area.

Jeremy Kaupp, the managing director at Ravelin, said national grocery chains have looked at opening a store there, without luck.

“We've had discussions with national grocers,” he said. “We've gone down the roads to planning stores and the bottom line comes back every time to 'not enough people living in the surrounding area' to support the type of retail that people remember and want to bring back to Uptown.”

A partial solution could rest with the office building, which has many empty floors.

Poladian doesn’t expect the office market to recover enough to fill those vacancies. He’s on the board of the company that owns Killam apartment buildings in the region, and said he’s open to traditional office spaces being converted to apartments on empty floors.

“Previously there were discussions about converting all or part of the tower to residential,” Poladian said.

“Maybe that's viable, maybe it isn't. I think we just have to be open-minded about all the potential possibilities here and be collaborative, be transparent… and honest about what we can do and what we can't do.”