Inside Ring Roads

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

It's pretty segregated when you get into the wealthier parts of town. The more affordable areas are more diverse. Some of the more affluent suburbs like Sugar Land and Katy are more diverse than people might expect, though.

Cypress, a suburb of about 250,000 residents, is the most ethnically diverse place I've ever lived, and probably the most affluent. The Kroger I go to is a real eye opener for people from all over the world. It has only gotten this way in the last 10 years or so. I've noticed that it's this way more on the south side of 290, where I live (e.g., Towne Lake), than the north side (e.g., Fairfield). But both areas are affluent overall.

[Velvet_Highground]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Those are very difficult because Canadian census tracts don't allign themselves with the rings.




That's amazing. How many people would live in this picture? I'd guess 25 million or more.

Yes that’s about right 15 million were envisioned by 2000 and about 25 million sometime in the 21st century with an open ended ceiling. Areas marked in black are as I understand it to be considered hyper dense. You can see the historic Woodward Corridor is interestingly left out of that zone probably in a nod to historic preservation. I leave your imagination of what downtown might have become to the Never Completed Detroit Projects Thread.

The Wayne State Archives have the whole project in their collection and it has been available for research since 1975 the year after the project officially died. The conceived population of the Detroit - Toronto - Cleveland Great Lakes Megalopolis is nothing short of a world leading mega region.

The Developing Urban Detroit Area Research Project (UDA) Collection was placed in the Archives of Labor History and Urban Affairs in 1973 by the Detroit Edison Company and was open for research in 1975.
UDA was conceived by Walker L. Cisler, Chairman of the Board of the Detroit
Edison Company. Begun in 1964, the project was sponsored by Detroit Edison
and Wayne State University. Doxiadis Associates, an international urban
planning organization headed by Constantinos A. Doxiadis, was selected to
undertake the project. The stated aim of UDA from the beginning was "an understanding of the problems created by dynamic urban growth in the Detroit Area and an exploitation of methods by which these problems can be faced successfully in the future."

In the seven year history of the project, 1964-1972, a team of planners from Doxiadis Associates working in Detroit collected and created large amounts of written and graphic data. The series of this collection represent the most important subdivisions of this material. The principal findings of UDA were published in three volumes, collectively titled
Emergence and Growth of an Urban Region. Copies of the work have been placed in the Archives Library. Substantially more written material produced by the project may be found in Series V. The collection as a whole preserves a record of the organization and evolution of the project.

Coordinate with UDA were two other research projects, a study of larger urban
patterns affecting the region, the Great Lakes Megalopolis (GLM) and a study
of the greater Cleveland area, the Northern Ohio Urban System (NOUS). Printed
materials from both GLM and NOUS may be found in Series V.

https://reuther.wayne.edu/files/UR000636.pdf

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

It’s 2100. And look the colours: massive areas marked as “high density”. Continuous sprawl all the way to Saginaw, Lansing and Kalamazoo (?).

No, it's not continuous sprawl. About 65-70% of the land in that view is either farmland, rural, or semi-rural. Only the red and dark red areas are zoned to be developed, but it's not uniformly developed. The roads linking the population centers appear to also be zoned for "high" density. I don't think this explicitly means residential, though. Many of those roads cutting through rural areas are just lined with commercial districts between the major population centers, not tract housing.

For instance, this is what it actually looks like along one of those dark red lines between Port Huron and Flint: https://maps.app.goo.gl/BoNq21ZS28VRmSn59

In fact, the area around Port Huron zoned for "high" density looks absurdly large compared to reality. It has a larger "high" density footprint than true Metro Detroit. Port Huron is technically part of the Detroit MSA but it is really its own thing. Metro Detroit sprawl doesn't actually reach Port Huron. There's at least 20 or 30 miles of separation between the outer areas of Detroit sprawl and the outer areas of Port Huron sprawl.

[edale]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

No, it's not continuous sprawl. About 65-70% of the land in that view is either farmland, rural, or semi-rural. Only the red and dark red areas are zoned to be developed, but it's not uniformly developed. The roads linking the population centers appear to also be zoned for "high" density. I don't think this explicitly means residential, though. Many of those roads cutting through rural areas are just lined with commercial districts between the major population centers, not tract housing.

For instance, this is what it actually looks like along one of those dark red lines between Port Huron and Flint: https://maps.app.goo.gl/BoNq21ZS28VRmSn59

In fact, the area around Port Huron zoned for "high" density looks absurdly large compared to reality. It has a larger "high" density footprint than true Metro Detroit. Port Huron is technically part of the Detroit MSA but it is really its own thing. Metro Detroit sprawl doesn't actually reach Port Huron. There's at least 20 or 30 miles of separation between the outer areas of Detroit sprawl and the outer areas of Port Huron sprawl.

....you do realize the map that was posted was a concept plan for future development from 1970, right? It offered a prediction for what SE Michigan could look like in 2100 given the growth trends the region was experiencing at the time. Whatever current development exists in this area is totally irrelevant to what was shown on that map.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by edale

....you do realize the map that was posted was a concept plan for future development from 1970, right? It offered a prediction for what SE Michigan could look like in 2100 given the growth trends the region was experiencing at the time. Whatever current development exists in this area is totally irrelevant to what was shown on that map.

Got it. I thought Yuri was asking how many people live there now.

[Notonfoodstamps]

Live between DC & Baltimore

DC
495 Beltway
Length - 64 miles
Area - 256 sq/mi (land)
Population - ~2 million
Density - 7,812.5 ppsm

Baltimore
695 Beltway
Length - 51.46 miles
Area - 144 sq/mi (land)
Population - ~930k
Density - 6,458.3 ppsm

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Got it. I thought Yuri was asking how many people live there now.

Oh no. Today is about 70% of Michigan's population, plus 800k (?) in Ohio, plus 1 million (?) on the Canadian side of the pic.

When AI will get better, I'll ask them to give me a visual glimpse of this massive, dense, futuristic Detroit.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Yuri

And to keep US forumers engaged:

Houston - I-610

Lenght: 61 km

--- 2020 ---- 2010 ---- 2000 ---- 1990 ------ Growth ------------ Area -------- Density
520,576 --- 469,051 --- 456,912 --- 429,064 --- +11.0% --- +2.7% --- +6.5% --- 248.6 Km² --- 2,094 inh./Km²

It covers a relatively small area (a bit larger than Seattle) and for being the core of a 7 million people metropolis, it's striking how few people live inside that area. Growth it's also disappointing, half of the pace of the metro areas as a whole, indicating it will keep sprawling.

I'll revisit Houston soon as that's only the inner one. They have another two: Beltway 8 and the Grand Parkway.

Houston again.

Houston - Beltway 8

Length: 142 km

--- 2020 ---- 2010 ---- 2000 ---- 1990 ------ Growth ------------ Area -------- Density
2,217,951 --- 2,060,324 --- 1,949,483 --- 1,708,466 --- +7.7% --- +5.7% -- +14.1% --- 1,353 Km² --- 1,639 inh./Km²

Here we have a very big Houston, the size of New York and Chicago combined and yet only 2.2 million people.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I'm currently working on both.

Did you happen to do Dallas and Fort Worth, Yuri? Scanning the thread I'm not sure if I'm just missing it. Just curious, thanks!

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by IcedCowboyCoffee

Did you happen to do Dallas and Fort Worth, Yuri? Scanning the thread I'm not sure if I'm just missing it. Just curious, thanks!

Not yet. I stopped doing it for while, but I'll resume.

[Yuri]

To make easier to find cities. Ranked by population inside the ring:

--------------------------- Population --- Length --- Area --- Density

São Paulo (SP-021) ---- 16,907,787 --- 177 km --- 1,687 Km² -- 10,022 inh./Km² (post #4)

Moscow (MKAD) --------- 10,966,684 --- 109 km ----- 887 Km² -- 12,360 inh./Km² (post #11)

London (M25) ----------- 9,775,759 --- 188 km --- 2,170 Km² --- 4,505 inh./Km² (post #1)

Houston (Beltway 8) ---- 2,217,951 --- 142 km --- 1,353 Km² --- 1,639 inh./Km² (post #88)

Washington (I-495) ----- 1,959,381 --- 103 km ----- 660 Km² --- 2,969 inh./Km² (post #6)

Cincinnati (I-275) ------- 913,863 --- 135 km ----- 977 Km² ----- 935 inh./Km² (post #33)

Baltimore (I-695) -------- 907,462 ---- 83 km ----- 390 Km² --- 2,325 inh./Km² (post #72)

Manchester (M60) --------- 862,157 ---- 58 km ----- 155 Km² --- 5,570 inh./Km² (post #49)

Indianapolis (I-465) ----- 564,700 ---- 85 km ----- 481 Km² --- 1,174 inh./Km² (post #71)

Houston (I-610) ---------- 520,576 ---- 61 km ----- 249 Km² --- 2,094 inh./Km² (post #2)

Memphis (I-40...) -------- 257,093 ---- 48 km ----- 213 Km² --- 1,209 inh./Km² (post #70)

Ann Arbor (I-94...) ------ 123,892 ---- 36 km ------ 73 Km² --- 1,685 inh./Km² (post #21)

[Yuri]

Paris - Boulevard Périphérique

Length: 35 km

--- 2023 ------- 2015 ------- 2007 ------- 1999 --------------- Growth --------------- Area --------- Density
2,103,778 --- 2,206,488 --- 2,193,030 --- 2,125,246 --- -4.7% --- +0.6% --- +3.2% ------ 87 Km² -- 24,312 inh./Km²

The most remarkable one, Paris Intramuros, marking Paris city proper minus the parks.

By far the highest density in the list, 2x higher than Moscow's albeit covering an area 10x smaller.

[Yuri]

Johannesburg - Ring Road (N1, N3 and N12)

Length: 83 km

--- 2011 ----- Area ----- Density
1,696,533 ----- 416 Km² --- 4,078 inh./Km²

I like this one shape. It's very visible in a map and encircles together Johannesburg, Randburg, Sandton and Alexandra township. Similar in lenght to Baltimore and Indianapolis. Population figures are a bit overstate as part of administrative divisions are out of the ring. I'd assume the exact figure would be between 1.5-1.6 million people.

Ethnic Makeup
Black ----- 993,618 -- 58.6%
White ----- 398,192 -- 23.5%
Asian ----- 113,980 --- 6.7%
Coloured -- 168,294 --- 9.9%
Other ------ 22,447 --- 1.3%

Languages
Afrikaans - 186,635 -- 11.0%
English --- 600,199 -- 35.4%
Bantu ----- 909,699 -- 53.6%

[Yuri]

Berlin - Autobahn 10 (A 10)

Length: 196 km

--- 2022 ------- 2011 ------- 2001 ------- 1990 --------------- Growth --------------- Area --------- Density
4,276,429 --- 3,891,046 --- 3,924,459 --- 3,858,335 --- +9.9% --- -0.9% --- +1.7% --- 2,170 Km² --- 1,971 inh./Km²

That's the longest in Europe and so far the longest in the thread.

We see clearly how Berlin region has recovered last decade and it's growing incredibly fast.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Yuri

To make easier to find cities. Ranked by population inside the ring:

--------------------------- Population --- Length --- Area --- Density

São Paulo (SP-021) ---- 16,907,787 --- 177 km --- 1,687 Km² -- 10,022 inh./Km² (post #4)

Moscow (MKAD) --------- 10,966,684 --- 109 km ----- 887 Km² -- 12,360 inh./Km² (post #11)

London (M25) ----------- 9,775,759 --- 188 km --- 2,170 Km² --- 4,505 inh./Km² (post #1)

Houston (Beltway 8) ---- 2,217,951 --- 142 km --- 1,353 Km² --- 1,639 inh./Km² (post #88)

Washington (I-495) ----- 1,959,381 --- 103 km ----- 660 Km² --- 2,969 inh./Km² (post #6)

Cincinnati (I-275) ------- 913,863 --- 135 km ----- 977 Km² ----- 935 inh./Km² (post #33)

Baltimore (I-695) -------- 907,462 ---- 83 km ----- 390 Km² --- 2,325 inh./Km² (post #72)

Manchester (M60) --------- 862,157 ---- 58 km ----- 155 Km² --- 5,570 inh./Km² (post #49)

Indianapolis (I-465) ----- 564,700 ---- 85 km ----- 481 Km² --- 1,174 inh./Km² (post #71)

Houston (I-610) ---------- 520,576 ---- 61 km ----- 249 Km² --- 2,094 inh./Km² (post #2)

Memphis (I-40...) -------- 257,093 ---- 48 km ----- 213 Km² --- 1,209 inh./Km² (post #70)

Ann Arbor (I-94...) ------ 123,892 ---- 36 km ------ 73 Km² --- 1,685 inh./Km² (post #21)

Lol. Who knew there was a 36km ring road around Ann Arbor. Christ.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Lol. Who knew there was a 36km ring road around Ann Arbor. Christ.

It's not a literal ring road. Ann Arbor is encircled by three highways that were routed around its periphery.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It's not a literal ring road. Ann Arbor is encircled by three highways that were routed around its periphery.

That makes more sense in the scheme of things.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

That makes more sense in the scheme of things.

One interesting feature is this ring road is pretty much conterminous with the city proper boundaries.

Anyway, let's bring another small one:

Charleroi - R3 and A15

Length: 45.4 km

--- 2021 ------- 2011 ------- 2001 ------- 1991 --------------- Growth --------------- Area --------- Density
232,890 ----- 233,823 ----- 229,846 ----- 235,679 --- -0.4% --- +1.7% --- -2.5% --- 122.0 Km² --- 1,909 inh./Km²

"Europe's ugliest city", capital of the Belgian Rust Belt. Ring road encompasses the municipalities of Charleroi and Courcelles.

[Yuri]

Minsk - MKAD (M-9)

Length: 56.2 km

--- 2019 ------- 2009 ------- 1999 ------- 1989 --------------- Growth --------------- Area --------- Density
2,012,896 --- 1,836,808 --- 1,680,567 --- 1,612,970 --- +9.6% --- +9.3% --- +4.2% --- 237.6 Km² --- 8,472 inh./Km²

As Moscow used to do it, Minsk city borders are kinda harmonized with the ring road. There are some pieces and enclaves out of it, so the population stated here might be overestimated, maybe by 100k at most.

Very strong growth, the same pattern we're seeing more often, with people from stagnating/declining countries flock into the primate city.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Lol. Who knew there was a 36km ring road around Ann Arbor. Christ.

Yuri has a habit of comparing things that make little sense (like his "metropolitan region of London" with 18 million people or more).

Many cities have more than 1 ring roads to start with (Paris has 3 ring roads, Moscow and Beijing also have several ring roads), and the areas encompassed within the ring roads are vastly different from city to city.