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  #61  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 10:07 PM
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San Antonio has two ring roads: I-410 and Hwy 1604.
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  #62  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 10:08 PM
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In case anyone thinks there is something especially egregious about the level of racial segregation in Houston, every city in the following list is considered a "High Segregation" city. https://belonging.berkeley.edu/most-least-segregated-cities-in-2020
I haven't work in any city above Houston on this list. Except for Memphis, but I didn't mention as I didn't want to give spoilers. There are Census tracts there with like 1,500 Blacks and 30 Whites.

Let me stand correctly: Houston as the US in general, is an extremely racially segregated place and even though I was surprised by Houston numbers, there are places much much more segregated.


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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
I've never heard anyone ever mention Houston specifically for egregious racial segregation.

When that topic has been discussed on SSP over the past 25+ years, it's almost always the northern city usual suspects that get called out specifically - Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Philly, NYC, etc. - and for good reason.
I'm here at one random census tract on Houston near south: Blacks outnumber Whites by 11 to 1; than I move two miles or so to the near west and I find a tract where Whites outnumber Blacks by 36 to 1. And took me literally few seconds to find those two tracts. It probably even more extreme examples of racial segregation.


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Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
San Antonio has two ring roads: I-410 and Hwy 1604.
I find cute the shape of the smaller one. I intend to start working on it very soon.
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  #63  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 10:10 PM
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  #64  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
I'm here at one census tract on Houston near south: Blacks outnumber Whites by 11 to 1; than I moved two miles or so to the near west and I find a tract with Whites outnumbering Blacks by 36 to 1. And took me literally few seconds to find those two tracts. It probably even more extreme examples of racial segregation.
Do the tracts differentiate by subcategories like White non-Latino and White-Latino, South Asian and East Asian, African-American and immigrant African? The far west side has the nation's largest Nigerian community. East of that is a much larger Vietnamese population.
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  #65  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
Do the tracts differentiate by subcategories like White non-Latino and White-Latino, South Asian and East Asian, African-American and immigrant African? The far west side has the nation's largest Nigerian community. East of that is a much larger Vietnamese population.
No, but they bring Hispanic numbers and since 2020 Hispanics stop to identify themselves as Whites (over 60% in 2010) and moved to "two or more races" (80% in 2020). So today White and non-Hispanic White are pretty much the same.

https://citypopulation.de/en/usa/metrohouston/
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  #66  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 10:41 PM
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No, but they bring Hispanic numbers and since 2020 Hispanics stop to identify themselves as Whites (over 60% in 2010) and moved to "two or more races" (80% in 2020). So today White and non-Hispanic White are pretty much the same.

https://citypopulation.de/en/usa/metrohouston/
Be careful making assumptions based on racial or linguistic statistics that don't include national origin or ethnicity. The picture that will give is not the reality of Houston.

Edited to add: Perfect example is: My best friend is "White" (Jewish born in Israel of Eastern European parents, raised in New Jersey) and his partner is Hispanic (Half Chinese, born in Peru and raised both in Peru and Houston ).

From the Los Angeles Times:

Video Link
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Last edited by bilbao58; Aug 29, 2025 at 10:53 PM.
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  #67  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
The OP twice commented on the "crazy" and "incredible" segregation of Houston in this thread. Not that they're wrong about that, but I just wanted to nip any mistaken notion that Houston is an outlier in the bud.
I never took Houston as being all that segregated, to be honest. Yes, people tend to self segregate based on race and ethnicity (because human nature) but based on my 28 years of living there, most parts of town are pretty well representative of overall population dynamics.
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  #68  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 11:03 PM
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I never took Houston as being all that segregated, to be honest. Yes, people tend to self segregate based on race and ethnicity (because human nature) but based on my 28 years of living there, most parts of town are pretty well representative of overall population dynamics.
It's pretty segregated when you get into the wealthier parts of town. The more affordable areas are more diverse. Some of the more affluent suburbs like Sugar Land and Katy are more diverse than people might expect, though.
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  #69  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
It's pretty segregated when you get into the wealthier parts of town. The more affordable areas are more diverse. Some of the more affluent suburbs like Sugar Land and Katy are more diverse than people might expect, though.
Well sure but River Oaks, Memorial and West U. aren't really indicative of Houston in general. Solid middle class neighborhoods are still fairly diverse though. Poor areas tend to be the most segregated; not a lot of overlap in places like Acres Homes or Gulfton.
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  #70  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2025, 12:09 AM
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Memphis - I-40, I-240, I-55 and Mississippi River

Lenght: 48.1 km

--- 2020 ----- 2010 ------ 2000 ------- 1990 ------------------- Growth ------------ Area -------- Density
257,093 ---- 270,320 ---- 296,438 ---- 332,268 --- -4.9% --- -8.8% -- -10.8% --- 212.6 Km² --- 1,209 inh./Km²

That's Memphis Inner Beltway and this it's not a full highway belt and I used a geographical barrier to close the ring.

It covers an area slightly bigger than Cleveland and Cincinnati and it's experience a much higher decline than the city proper (which is much bigger), although numbers are converging specially due the strong growth on the 3 tracts that form Downtown (+43.2% in the 2000's and +25.4% on the 2010's).

I didn't keep track, just gave a look on the tracts ethnic makeup, and this area looks heavily Black, specially the north and the south 1/3. Maybe close to Detroit's levels, I don't know.
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  #71  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2025, 2:13 AM
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Indianapolis - I-465

Lenght: 85 km

--- 2020 ---- 2010 ---- 2000 ---- 1990 ------ Growth ------------ Area -------- Density
564,700 --- 530,712 --- 555,565 --- 554,527 ---- +6.4% --- -4.5% --- +0.2% --- 481 Km² --- 1,174 inh./Km²

Another very recognizable ring road and even though encircles a vast area, not much smaller than Chicago, there are 565,000 people living inside of it or only 1/4 of Indianapolis MSA population.
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2025, 9:34 PM
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Baltimore - I-695

Length: 83 km

--- 2020 ---- 2010 ---- 2000 ------ 1990 ------------------ Growth ------------- Area -------- Density
907,462 --- 923,428 --- 946,641 -- 1,026,818 ---- -1.7% --- -2.5% --- -7.8% --- 390 Km² --- 2,325 inh./Km²

Baltimore MSA as a whole has been slowing down decade after decade, but the area inside the Ring Road are losing less people. That's mostly due suburbs inside that resumed growth and Central Baltimore with very strong performances.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2025, 11:36 PM
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Yuri needs to do Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton, Calgary.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2025, 1:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Sure.

But Yuri is Brazilian.

I'm sure ALL major US cities look stupid segregated from his perspective.



Houston has really bad racial segregation.

Many other US cities are even worse on that score.

"Which pile of shit smells less?" is a pretty crappy game.
a bright spot, err, kinda i guess, is that the segregate in the home neighborhoods where people live doesnt always mean segregate in daily life activities.

also, being from another country he is totally missing some often major segregation just by looking at race. for example, in columbus the major segregation is between ohioans and appalachians, much more so than black & white. the ses/cultural divide thing.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2025, 2:25 PM
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It’s interesting how the purpose of ring roads have changed as the modern era as moved on ring roads in Detroit, Grand Boulevard was envisioned more as a promenade around the urban area acting as a home for new and elite development. Outer Drive built just on the other side of the transitional period acts as a residential front street for the large sections of bedroom neighborhoods being built in the outer city. Concept of moving people around the congested developed urban center is there and marks a significant transition into pure mile road style development.

8 mile and Telegraph are sort of an early post war equivalent to a Detroit ring road but the theme of Telegraph Rd being a north south bypass while 8 mile being more of a crosstown expressway are taking shape. 275 was always envisioned as a bypass though it was moved westward while 696 was a crosstown expressway. Geography bounds were and what can be built 275 was cancelled from Farmington Hills to Davisburg because it would require draining wetlands, filling in parts of lakes and grading through the hills to shave off a few minutes commute.

The flat easily cleared and developed land runs along the waterfront from Port Huron to Toledo with the lakes and hills region while a very desirable area to live and play in acts as an impediment for the kind of fast paced mid-century sprawl that was the future. It’s interesting to see what kind of development visions city leaders were looking at in the 60’s to overcome the geographic challenges and better utilize regional assets. The Doxiadis Plan kind of gives me the impression of a series of high voltage power lines crisscrossing the region supercharging growth. It would have been a nightmare to implement as envisioned a sort of super mile road system and highway hybrid but I get where they were going.

I kind of like the concept of building a large urban center in St Clair County having a balance of satellite cities around the triangular edge of the urban zone would have been very interesting with a proper mass transit system. Only the very beginning of laying down infrastructure for the envisioned scheme came to fruition before the 67 riots and growing national unrest upended this idealistic if naive period in our national history ushering in the more cynical post modern era. But hey we did get an our water system expanded in the north tapping into Lake Huron and I do enjoy that sweet sweet blue water coming from my tap.


https://funnelme.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/doxiadis-plans-detroit/

2020 light pollution map. Interesting to see how with Ann Arbor protecting itself from development from the east with the exception of the 94 - Michigan Ave corridor it’s beginning to sprawl to the south and west.
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2025, 4:49 PM
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Yuri needs to do Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton, Calgary.
And Saskatoon! We have a tight, complete ring road (Circle Drive) that is about 90% controlled access and about 75% grade separated freeway, and was built in stages between 1966 and 2013, following an initial concept of "encircling boulevards" that dates back to pre-WWI.

An outer 3/4 ring road (the "Saskatoon Freeway", as currently known) is in the planning stages, with route alignment and intersection configurations mostly in place. Tendering has not commenced, but the last update is that construction may commence in 2027/28.
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2025, 7:00 PM
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Yuri needs to do Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton, Calgary.
Those are very difficult because Canadian census tracts don't allign themselves with the rings.


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That's amazing. How many people would live in this picture? I'd guess 25 million or more.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2025, 7:33 PM
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Those are very difficult because Canadian census tracts don't allign themselves with the rings.
They do in Saskatoon, more or less

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recen..._sr/files-fichiers/2021-92146-725-01.pdf

Tracts that cross Circle Drive fall into one of three categories. The areas outside Circle Drive are either:

1. Industrial areas (0003.00 [plus a small golf course community]; 0020.00; 0021.00)
2. Pre WWI townsite later annexed into the City (0013.01 -- but all the residential portions are outside Circle, anyway)
3. Suburban area developed in the immediate aftermath of WWII meant to house returning veterans (0005.00)

Other than that, there's no excuse to not analyze my po-dunk town
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2025, 7:36 PM
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That's amazing. How many people would live in this picture? I'd guess 25 million or more.
About 6.5 million, maybe 7 million max.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2025, 10:10 PM
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About 6.5 million, maybe 7 million max.
It’s 2100. And look the colours: massive areas marked as “high density”. Continuous sprawl all the way to Saginaw, Lansing and Kalamazoo (?).
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