Canadian Airport Thread II

[RomanR27]

Yeah, if YXU gets Porter service it will be similar to what they employed at YHM. The YOW feeder would just be cannibalizing their own service from those cities.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Yeah, if YXU gets Porter service it will be similar to what they employed at YHM. The YOW feeder would just be cannibalizing their own service from those cities.

That's true to some extent. I don't think they will create another YHM. Eventually, all hubs and focus cities will need to be connected to each other for a better network and a more efficient rescheduling if something goes wrong. Could you imagine someone in YHM being told their flight is cancelled and they have to drive themselves to YYZ if they want to get to their destination the same day? AC connects all YYZ/YUL/YVR/YOW/YHZ/YYC together with the exception of YYC/YHZ. PD will eventually need to do the same between YOW/YYZ/YUL/YHZ/YHM including YOW-YUL or YHU.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

In a few years time, PD will have YOW-North America pretty much covered so YXU-YOW-X will be more worthwhile then. I have to agree that driving to YYZ from London is a good option if going south or something along those lines. But YXU-YOW-Western Canada/Maritimes is a much better option than driving to YYZ IMO. There is for sure a market of pax that completely want to avoid YYZ. YOW these days is also seeing an increasing number of Toronto originating pax connecting in YOW, so I would have to say YXU won't be an exception. Earlier this year, I came back to YOW from LAS and when we landed they asked us all to stay seated because there were 22 pax on board with a very tight connection back to Toronto that needed to be let off first.

Sure but in a world where YOW is that busy, YHM likely will be too, so that will be 2 southern Ontario options, one of which is ridiculously easy to get to. I don't know if Porter runs DH4's into Pearson, but if they do, I can see London having that a couple times a day before they ever go to Ottawa. Don't get me wrong, I want to see the added service. But I think Atlantic Canada is the only thin argument I can see for London to Ottawa connections, but that appeal drops if the Atlantic destination is also a DH4. But I don't see much of a market to sit for almost 2 hours on a Dash going in the wrong direction. Toronto doesn't suck that bad. And Hamilton with their improvements, doesn't suck at all.

I'm also completely glossing over whether Waterloo enters the chat too.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I've hypothesized on this before but I don't think Ottawa offers any worthwhile connections from YXU. I seriously think they would sell more seats to YYZ than to YOW for connections. AC used to use a DH1 or DH3 on this route, is a DH4 maybe too much plane for this now? I really enjoyed flying on Porter but I'll be damned if I'm going to Ottawa to connect anywhere when Toronto is such an easy drive or an easy connection on the few AC flights a day. No way can Porter offer a fare cheap enough to sway enough people on that choice. Never mind too that Hamilton is also an ever increasing viable choice as well.

Does Porter have any international codeshare partners that they could feed into Toronto for?

YXU-YOW 1x daily on a 78 seat DH4, be it on AC or PD, should be able to sustain itself on its own with O&D. After the DH1s retired, AC was 2x daily 50 seaters (1x DH3 & 1x CRJ) on the route on weekdays and 1x on weekends.

The YXU-YOW O&D without a nonstop & so little YXU-YYZ capacity for connections has probably shrunk by like 75%. It's a head scratcher as to why PD don't jump on YXU/YQG/YHM/YKF-YOW. It's not like they don't have the slack for it in the DH4 fleet.

The only way YMM-YOW ever made sense were if PD had some sort of pending revenue guarantee, which maybe they initially had and the deal fell through perhaps?

[Dominion301]

The PD-AA codeshare has received regulatory approval and will commence later this week: https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250921-aapdcodeshare

[Dominion301]

While PD ended YMM before it even started, they've further increased YOW & YYZ sun flying as follows:

PVR 6x/wk ops X1
NAS 2x/wk ops 36
LIR 7x/wk ops Daily
GCM 3x/wk ops 357
CUN 6x/wk ops X4

For comparison, here's how PD was looking as of 15SEP25 for this winter when the increase was to 19x weekly:

PVR 5x/wk ops days X13
NAS 2x/wk ops days 36
LIR 4x/wk ops days 3467
GCM 2x/wk ops days 57
CUN 6x/wk ops days X4

YYZ is now 32x weekly:

PVR 5/wk ops X14
NAS 5x/wk ops X24
LIR 6x/wk ops X3
GCM 3x/wk ops 246
CUN 13x/wk ops 2x Daily, except 1x on day 2

...and on 15SEP25 was 28x weekly:

PVR 5x/wk ops days X14
NAS 5x/wk ops days X24
LIR 5x/wk ops days X36
GCM 3x/wk ops days 246
CUN 10x/wk ops Daily & ops 2x on days 467

[Dominion301]

YOW-LHR being extended to year round this winter and will remain at 3x weekly over the winter months: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/lo...tawa-connected-year-round-855347134.html

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

YOW-LHR being extended to year round this winter and will remain at 3x weekly over the winter months: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/lo...tawa-connected-year-round-855347134.html

On a 788 and the LHR arrival/departure times are the same as the LHR-BOM fifth freedom flight, so looks like that may be down to 4x weekly from the current daily service in consequence.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Less than a month after it's announcement, looks like YOW-YMM has been pulled by Porter.

The YMM Airport Authority in a social media post are claiming the route will still go ahead but now commencing in the spring (which is the logical time to add it), but with a date TBA. We'll see if it actually happens. The route needs YOW-YDF & YOW-YQY to get added this summer to help with connections to make it viable.

[LO 044]

There's a lot of chatter on all the typical websites about WestJet's new seating configuration on their 737's. A big change is no recline for most of the economy section so apparently WestJet now wants to be Ryanair. If these seats are anything like Lufthansa's slim line seats, flights over 2 hours will be terrible. With our great duopoly, I worry AC will follow suit at some point meaning mainline not Rouge.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/aircraft/cabin-updates

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2025/...-experience-through-major-cabin-reconfig

[casper]

Originally Posted by LO 044

There's a lot of chatter on all the typical websites about WestJet's new seating configuration on their 737's. A big change is no recline for most of the economy section so apparently WestJet now wants to be Ryanair. If these seats are anything like Lufthansa's slim line seats, flights over 2 hours will be terrible. With our great duopoly, I worry AC will follow suit at some point meaning mainline not Rouge.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/aircraft/cabin-updates

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2025/...-experience-through-major-cabin-reconfig

It is weird. I could be wrong, but it sounds like they are either extremely confused or they are trying to confuse us their customer.

So the front-cabin, "Premium Economy" (aka what other might call Business), is unchanged. You have 12 seats of this.

Extended Comfort still has reasonable pitch, but it limited to around 36 seats. You have to buy that separately through seat selection. However, ever someone on the cheapest ticket can buy it.

Ryan air seating for the rest of the aircraft. This is what they think the vast majority of their customers want?

They call this an "all economy" aircraft.

Weird strategy. At least we have Porter expanding to provide some competition.

[RomanR27]

Not really that surprised given they launched "Ultra Basic" recently. I guess those will be the people getting shoved in the 28" seats.

[casper]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Not really that surprised given they launched "Ultra Basic" recently. I guess those will be the people getting shoved in the 28" seats.

What is weird is the write up on their website says those on "Ultra Basic" can buy seats in the front section of "Extended Comfort".

So if you buy "Ultra Basic" your not allowed to bring a bag on the flight, unless you book a seat in "Extended Comfort", then you are.

The same applies to boarding. In "Ultra Basic" you board last, unless you book a seat in "Extended Comfort", then you board in zone 2.

Sounds like the Ultra Basic fare still also has the exception for those connecting overseas, they are allowed to bring a carry on bag.

[J81]

I used to like WJ

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

YYC hasn't posted its July numbers, but said on social media that for the first time ever they surpassed 2 million pax in a single month.

I guess the next milestone to reach is 20 million in a year.

They just came out sometime in the last couple of days. YYC up 4.4% over last July, with big gains in domestic and International. At the current rate 20 million is possible.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

At the current rate 20 million is possible.

Not this year.

You need a 5.84% increase over 2024 to hit 20 million. YYC achieved that rate of increase only in June. The rest of the months are short of the mark. With only 5 months left to report, it's doubtful the increase in those months will counter the weaker increases in the first 5-6 months of the year.

20 million will most likely happen in 2026.

Originally Posted by casper

It is weird. I could be wrong, but it sounds like they are either extremely confused or they are trying to confuse us their customer.

Marketing tactics at their best.

They will spin it as a positive for the customer (like the comments about more options for the customer or game changing inflight internet experience ...), but it's all fluff. The vast majority of passengers fly in economy, and they are getting screwed.

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Marketing tactics at their best.

They will spin it as a positive for the customer (like the comments about more options for the customer or game changing inflight internet experience ...), but it's all fluff. The vast majority of passengers fly in economy, and they are getting screwed.

Given they are telling us the whole reason they are doing this is to "serve us better through comfort, choice and connectivity". as well "our newly reconfigured aircraft offers seating choices designed to fit every comfort level and budget, without compromising on amenities, connectivity or service."

At least Porter is growing.

[Dominion301]

^ the 12 months rolling for YYC above at 21.2 million is wayyyy off. It's actually 19,229,650. I think they're double counting a month.

At current growth rates, YYC's on track for 19,483,752 in 2025. YYC would have to go on one heck of a run in the last 5 months to hit 20 million in 2025, which is very unlikely with transborder turning negative, the AC strike will knock at least a couple of points growth off August's numbers and also YYC isn't seeing seat capacity increases that are big enough this year to make it to 20M. Even still, no other airport save for YHZ punches so much about its metropolitan region's population as YYC does.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by casper

Given they are telling us the whole reason they are doing this is to "serve us better through comfort, choice and connectivity". as well "our newly reconfigured aircraft offers seating choices designed to fit every comfort level and budget, without compromising on amenities, connectivity or service."

At least Porter is growing.

Let me edit the above slightly.

"serve us better through comfort at an additional cost relative to the current standard and pricing, choice and connectivity". and

"our newly reconfigured aircraft offers seating choices designed to fit every comfort level and budget, without compromising on amenities, connectivity or service as long as you pay the additional cost relative to the current standard and pricing

Last night I was trying to figure out where else the passenger comfort cuts can occur. I mean the seats could literally turn to Transit Bus style seats. Crew members will ask you to raise the shades on your windows on takeoffs and landings but some seats do not have windows. I'm surprised Ryanair hasn't asked Boeing to eliminate half the windows which I assume would bring the price of the aircraft down slightly. WS could also pass on the Ryanair stringent rules for Ultra Basic passengers like electronic boarding pass only or else you get charged a $100 at the airport to print it.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

At current growth rates, YYC's on track for 19,483,752 in 2025. YYC would have to go on one heck of a run in the last 5 months to hit 20 million in 2025, which is very unlikely with transborder turning negative, the AC strike will knock at least a couple of points growth off August's numbers and also YYC isn't seeing seat capacity increases that are big enough this year to make it to 20M. Even still, no other airport save for YHZ punches so much about its metropolitan region's population as YYC does.

Maybe it will actually gain some passenger when AC passengers got re-routed through YYC, if WS have the extra capacity to take those passengers.

I am more curious of YVR's August stat will be in the negative due to the strike, and if the strike will cost YVR's record. Before the strike, YVR was on track for about 26.8M passenger this year.

Originally Posted by LO 044

Last night I was trying to figure out where else the passenger comfort cuts can occur. I mean the seats could literally turn to Transit Bus style seats. Crew members will ask you to raise the shades on your windows on takeoffs and landings but some seats do not have windows. I'm surprised Ryanair hasn't asked Boeing to eliminate half the windows which I assume would bring the price of the aircraft down slightly. WS could also pass on the Ryanair stringent rules for Ultra Basic passengers like electronic boarding pass only or else you get charged a $100 at the airport to print it.

Hmm... let me think...

Remove all the seats and let everyone stand of course!
Maybe charge for bathroom
Replace ramp agents with robots and self-driving cars
Replace flight attendant with robots
In flight drink/snack/meal vending machine
Self-flying planes
Replace ground-staff with machines

I believe AC already have the technology for the last one with self check-in, self baggage-drops, facial recognition for boarding, etc...