Canadian Skyline Thread III

[Nouvellecosse]

I think one of the main things that makes the major central skylines more unique is that they formed over much longer time ranges and at different times based on when they had growth spurts. Therefore they generally don't just have international or any other single style. They tend to have both early and late international styles along with POMO and modernist revival. Plus there was a greater diversity of uses (office, hotel, residential and some institutional) and sizes. So it doesn't really matter that examples of any one style aren't that different across cities.

But with the suburbs they're overwhelmingly tall residential towers from the last 25ish years rising from a base lacking in lower level density.

[James Bond Agent 007]

^
And that makes one wonder how these suburban skylines will be regarded in 50+ years. With so many towers being built in such a short span of time, with all the same style, will these skylines look really dated in 50+ years? Or maybe it's an interesting-enough style that they'll still look pretty cool then (albeit monotonous)?

[WhipperSnapper]

In my opinion, it hinges on low vacancy. They'll be first to empty out in a Canadian population collapse.

I wouldn't call the century old tenement neighbourhoods in the Bronx pretty by any means. They are mid rise which is more human scaled/ neighbourly. What really stands out are the light wells incorporated in larger structures which allows for the tenements to have windows on more than one side. It's the opposite of the narrow bowling alleys of today in which the bedroom can be on the interior with a glass sliding door into the living room with the only window to the outside world.

[Wpg_Guy]

Winnipeg shining through the Twilight

[Repthe250]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

I would think that with Canadian city downtowns adding more and more of these condo/apt skyscrapers, even the downtowns will start to look more like the suburban downtowns over time.

Totally agree. And 99% of them are hideous, cheap, copy and paste messes. Canadian developers need to wake up and put some effort in. Our cities (basically BC and Ontario) are overwhelmingly becoming grey, drab and lifeless thanks to these uninspired condos popping up in bulk. And they’re always in groups. At least in metro van, every condo has 2 or 3 duplicates in the same development.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Repthe250

Totally agree. And 99% of them are hideous, cheap, copy and paste messes. Canadian developers need to wake up and put some effort in. Our cities (basically BC and Ontario) are overwhelmingly becoming grey, drab and lifeless thanks to these uninspired condos popping up in bulk. And they’re always in groups. At least in metro van, every condo has 2 or 3 duplicates in the same development.

Lifeless? I agree that condo towers are often not great aesthetically, but I don't see how anyone can claim that the cities are lifeless at all given that they're busier, denser, and more vibrant than ever before. Sure there are certain districts where you get noise complaints now that you didn't before, but you don't need music loud enough to rattle nearby window panes to in order to be lively.

[Metro-One]

Could things be better, of course, but I always feel that people that think new condo developments in Canada are ugly haven't travelled much. Japan, Korea, China, India, Brazil, etc... all have far uglier monolithic copy and paste tower blocks that go on forever than Canadian cities (except for Kitchener / Waterloo, those are hideous).

[MolsonExport]

^that's true to some extent, except we seem to be joining these places on the race to the bottom in terms of design quality/diversity, as exemplified by the sheer ubiquitous banality of almost all recent KW skyscrapers.

If each was to be evaluated independently of the others (ignoring also memory), none would be absolutely atrocious, but one cannot do this because of the incredible sameness (style, massing, colour scheme, etc.) of the new towers of the past 15 years.

[WhipperSnapper]

The towers are far more distinct than overpopulated Asian countries or the post war slabs. However, the layouts are crap and worse for families. (Note: Vancouver does fair better than Toronto) The views don't justify the prestige of living on a skyscraper floor. The towers are not built well based on all the issues tenants and owners are facing for relatively new buildings . Living in a mid rise is an inconvenient when building systems fail. Building systems are essential living on the 50th floor.

Population density refers to quality. There's very little quality beyond masses of people milling about should Vaughan Metropolitan Centre reach full build out (as unlikely as that is) However, it's a student ghetto for York University. And with that, it's pretty or will be pretty by comparison to Waterloos.

The planned linear park in VMC is no Central Park and that's what makes Upper Manhattan's density luxurious.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Kelowna, British Columbia

[James Bond Agent 007]

^
Kelowna is one of the cities that will be added to my list below in 10-20 years.

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

They're all starting to look the same:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6246...oASAFQAw%3D%3D
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5834...oASAFQAw%3D%3D
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7945...oASAFQAw%3D%3D
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2621...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

Surrey is well on its way there too:
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1807...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

As is Coquitlam:
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2797...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

I'd throw New Westminster in there but it has so many 90's towers that look a little different that, at least for the time being, it's not quite in the same category. Also, I think the towers in North and West Vancouver are too low to put them in this category.

Calgary is a great example of the bigger city downtowns I was talking about before: All it needs is maybe another dozen or so towers like these and they will start to dominate the skyline and make it look like Mississauga, particularly from certain angles:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0478...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

This is such a distinctive and dominant style in Canada I seriously think they should give it it's own name.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Calgary is a great example of the bigger city downtowns I was talking about before: All it needs is maybe another dozen or so towers like these and they will start to dominate the skyline and make it look like Mississauga, particularly from certain angles

I don't think it really feels like this in person at all. Towers like The Bow are considerably larger and more visible in person and from a distance than the condos. It's surprising to me how few condos downtown Calgary has and how much of a business feel it still has. It is not that close to being like Vancouver's downtown peninsula or even downtown Toronto (which is maybe halfway between Calgary and Vancouver for business vs. residents).

It's true that you can make the condos look more prominent by going in a condo area where the office towers are farther off in the distance, but you can also make a dumpster look giant or whatever.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think it really feels like this in person at all. Towers like The Bow are considerably larger and more visible in person and from a distance than the condos. It's surprising to me how few condos downtown Calgary has and how much of a business feel it still has. It is not that close to being like Vancouver's downtown peninsula or even downtown Toronto (which is maybe halfway between Calgary and Vancouver for business vs. residents).

It's true that you can make the condos look more prominent by going in a condo area where the office towers are farther off in the distance, but you can also make a dumpster look giant or whatever.

Maybe it might be more like 2 dozen instead of 1 dozen.

But since the tendency for Calgary is to build 2-3 tower complexes, it'll probably get there in the time that most Canadian cities would build just 1 dozen towers!

[Nouvellecosse]

I'd say if you were to add a dozen more large condo towers that would make a pretty big difference for a skyline that size. It may have a large skyline for it's population, but it's still a metro area of only 1.5 million.

[craner]

^ Closer to 2M actually (if only we had Okotoks)

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

Not statscan numbers, but some population estimates from the Alberta government.
Alberta 4,980,659 (+138,136)
Calgary 1,839,000 (+60,194)
Edmonton 1,673,860 (+42,246)


I'm too lazy to work out the math, so I'm copying text from a post on SRC.

[J.OT13]

Those Calgary proposals though don't give me the same suburban Toronto/Vancouver vibe. They're different enough that they'd stand out on their own. The glass colour, and variation in colour in general, make a big difference.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by craner

^ Closer to 2M actually (if only we had Okotoks)

You wouldn't want Okotoks - there are just too many damned things to do there!

[cranes]

Waterloo

The MARQ Student Experience | The MARQ Waterloo Property Tour

[MolsonExport]

Shacks by the Stacks.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Those Calgary proposals though don't give me the same suburban Toronto/Vancouver vibe. They're different enough that they'd stand out on their own. The glass colour, and variation in colour in general, make a big difference.

Yeah. I haven't actually seen these before but good for Calgary. These look pretty nice. I realize this is the skyline thread and the discussion is more focused on that but you can see the scale of the footprint of these, the design of the lower levels, and the buildings around them are not much like Mississauga. The heights and floor plates may be smaller than the largest office towers in Calgary (the number of floors could be greater, but height per floor likely less).

Designs will continue to evolve and the rate of downtown condo construction isn't extreme there, so unless there's a very dramatic shift, the existing office core of Calgary is not going to be lost in a sea of 2010's-20's style condos. Downtown Calgary has over 40 million square feet of office space. Downtown Vancouver actually has less office space than Calgary does (with far more residential). It is not just about the metropolitan area population.