[Saint John] Port Development

[bingun]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Port Saint John Giving Auto Imports A Try



Article is currently available for free viewing on their sample issues page: https://allnewbrunswick.com/mobile/story?storyKey=MTkzODEz&sample=true

That is very interesting, DP World are full steam ahead with PSJ. If there wasn't enough motivation for Simms Corner and rail improvements already, surely this is enough to get the attention they need. I am not as familiar with RoRo vessels, but I assume a floating dock would be something like the one below?



I also assume that this kind of operation typically requires a fair amount of space to park the vehicles prior to transportation. Could this be a replacement for AIM once the legal battle ends? I can't see there being space anywhere else unless this is a long-term goal for Lorneville.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

That is very interesting, DP World are full steam ahead with PSJ. If there wasn't enough motivation for Simms Corner and rail improvements already, surely this is enough to get the attention they need. I am not as familiar with RoRo vessels, but I assume a floating dock would be something like the one below?



I also assume that this kind of operation typically requires a fair amount of space to park the vehicles prior to transportation. Could this be a replacement for AIM once the legal battle ends? I can't see there being space anywhere else unless this is a long-term goal for Lorneville.

The AIM site would be a good place for the short term, if they can get away with using it while the legal battle continues, but that might not be possible. Long Wharf seems like it could be an option too, if driving that far from the West Side docks is logistically viable.



I wonder how stable the abandoned pier above of the Americold site still is. If the AIM could be used temporarily, it could give the Port time to fill in and expand that old pier. It would be more than enough for vehicles. Dealing with this derelict pier is long overdue.

and for anyone that would like to chime in and say it's too expensive, too impractical, or whatever else, I'll remind you this is what Saint John Harbour looked like in 1840:



The West Side Docks and much of the land that the Port administers today is land that was reclaimed from the sea. Considering the Prime Minister never shuts up about the need to build big projects and considers expanding Canada's trading relations crucial to the country's national interest... these are exactly the type of projects that Saint John and New Brunswick's leaders should be pushing the federal government to fund, as they could set up Saint John to be a much more major port in North America, which helps New Brunswick, and helps Canada.

Looking at this list of top container ports in Canada and the United States with 1,000,000 TEUs or more, shows just how much of an opportunity exists in the Port of Saint John... not just to become a 1 million TEU port, but to become a multi million TEU container port. A deepwater port expansion at Lorneville could help accelerate this type of growth trajectory for the Port of Saint John.



Though I argue, further expansions in the port must come with corresponding major investments in housing to and residential infrastructure in port adjacent areas, so that the Port of Saint John and its partners can attract people to live in work within the city limits of Saint John, where the port operates. We still need to grow the population of Saint John to sustain this growth at the port. Moreover, it's in the best interests of the port to drive an increase the population of West Saint John so that the Saint-John-St. Croix riding is no longer dominated by rural interests. The realignment has already presented issues, with the Conservative MP for Saint John-St. Croix taking an adversarial, pro rural, and anti development stances towards city of Saint John industrial policy... which has perplexingly persisted post election. The city needs Port Growth for population growth, but the Port also needs the city's population growth to increase to sustain that growth. Massive investments in housing and municipal infrastructure, tax reform, regional amalagmation... all these things should be on the table if the federal government is expected to step up and invest billions in the Port of Saint John... all of which would be worth securing that type of massive federal investment.


Wab Kinew is pushing for the federal government to massively invest in and expand the Port of Churchill. I think Susan Holt should be doing the same... pushing for massive investments to further expand the Port of Saint John. She's called for some specific investments, like Simms Corner, and improving rail infrastructure, but I still think she needs to think bigger and come up with a more ambitious proposal for growth at the Port of Saint John. Though, who knows what is happening behind the scenes, maybe she's run some very big ideas past the PM that have not yet been made public. It will be very interesting to hear what ideas and projects have come out of the most recent first minister conference, and what ideas and projects are still to come.

As the first premier from Fredericton in more than a century, I'm surprised she hasn't asked for a relatively easy one as part of this national transportation corridor concept she's tied Simms Corner into... and that's expanding the Trans Canada Highway to reach Saint John. Connecting Saint John, the fastest growing container port in North America, to the TCH would be a pretty big deal economically for Fredericton too, and it would definitely help out the Port of Saint John in attracting even more new business. The TCH has vastly lower standards than the US Interstate system, so it really wouldn't take that much in terms of upgrades to incorporate NB route 7 into the Trans Canada Highway system.

Expanding the Port of Saint John's footprint in the central harbour and expanding into Lorneville with a deepwater port could both be considered projects of national importance.

Looking back on Saint John's history, there is precedent for massive investments and expansions into port operations in Saint Joh... and as the PM says..., "it's time to build... build big, build bold, build now!"

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

CN was there with several reps, as well as a panelist. It was also posted on their social media page.

I think someone at CN should look at updating the Port Saint John section on their website.


https://www.cn.ca/en/stories/20240712-port-st-john



Still has the port down as only having 4 cranes, and it would also be nice if the URL used the correct spelling for Port Saint John.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Having Ro-Ro traffic come into Saint John would be great for the port and great for jobs. I agree with Envision that the best spot for Ro-Ro would be where AIM was located but the port might want that spot for future cranes. The old pier near where the Tugs lay would also be a good spot but would require a decent amount of money to fix the pier. Long wharf is always a good spot but would need more rails put in, same with the old sugar refinery site. So in the short term AIM is the best spot. In the long term who really knows.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by CharlotteCountyLogan

Having Ro-Ro traffic come into Saint John would be great for the port and great for jobs. I agree with Envision that the best spot for Ro-Ro would be where AIM was located but the port might want that spot for future cranes. The old pier near where the Tugs lay would also be a good spot but would require a decent amount of money to fix the pier. Long wharf is always a good spot but would need more rails put in, same with the old sugar refinery site. So in the short term AIM is the best spot. In the long term who really knows.

It really would be great for the port, and it could just be one more development that helps the port secure much bigger investments and expansions into the future.

Hopefully John Williamson and Wayne Long can learn to work together and put the country and province ahead of partisan politics, because they could work on something truly amazing together pushing for further port expansion at the Port of Saint John. Though, ultimately, it will be up to the Minister of Transportation, Chrystia Freeland, and the Prime Minister himself. It certainly helps the the Port of Saint John is already on the radar of many Western Premiers because of its association with energy east.

• Video Link

I really do wonder about that old pier a lot, because I see it a lot. It's massive, but also such an ugly, brutal waste... ruining away into the harbour... but there's potential there for something much more.

I also wonder, does keeping the spot for the tugs matter as much as that extra acreage would mean for the port by simply filling it all in? It certainly looks cooler on the map as a big giant slip, and there may be other practical uses for it being kept that way, but it's still a question to be considered.

I guess you could say that old pier could be seen a bit of a metaphor for the City of Saint John... they've both been long forgotten about, but both have a chance to become something truly great again.

Either way, I think it will be well worth the cost to remediate and expand that pier, along with remediating and reclaiming land at the former sugar refinery site. Neither site should just be left to further rot away into the harbour... while the Prime Minister talks about building big, building bold, and building now.

Looking back at how massive an effort it was build the West Side Docks in the first place, some further reclamation projects would still pale in comparison to what was pulled off in the now very distant past. To borrow the words from Premier Moe, this is a "generational opportunity" to expand the port of Saint John... I just hope our political and economic leaders think big and push for a generational transformation of Saint John Harbour and the Port.

There's an opportunity here for massive investments and expansion, they just need to make the case for it. If the Prime Minister can be taken at his word, and I really think he can be, Saint John has a historic chance to secure federal funding for the biggest expansion into the Port of Saint John since the construction of the West Side Docks in the 1930s.

[Taeolas]

While we well know SSP tends to be browsed often by the media and I assume many politicians; I would urge you to write those MPs and MPPs to point out some of your ideas. They may already be having similar ideas, but knowing others are seeing this vision might help cut through some red tape and get some projects flowing easier.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

While we well know SSP tends to be browsed often by the media and I assume many politicians; I would urge you to write those MPs and MPPs to point out some of your ideas. They may already be having similar ideas, but knowing others are seeing this vision might help cut through some red tape and get some projects flowing easier.

Thanks. I have a few times before, but not always. I guess SSP is the best sounding board to help decide which ideas are actually worth contacting politicians and influential people about.

I contacted Julia Wright when she was still at the CBC about the "crazy idea" to build a mixed use high rise on top of the site of the former AIM offices , along with the video of the former PM suggesting we build housing on port owned lands, and she actually asked the Port CEO about the idea of housing on Port owned lands on CBC Morning Information Live.

He actually gave a really interesting answer, and it helped me understand the process of how developments at the port can actually get realized, or not. That was over a year ago now, but it's still a good interview and worth a listen. Things have changed a lot politically and economically since then, to say the least.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by CharlotteCountyLogan

Having Ro-Ro traffic come into Saint John would be great for the port and great for jobs. I agree with Envision that the best spot for Ro-Ro would be where AIM was located but the port might want that spot for future cranes. The old pier near where the Tugs lay would also be a good spot but would require a decent amount of money to fix the pier. Long wharf is always a good spot but would need more rails put in, same with the old sugar refinery site. So in the short term AIM is the best spot. In the long term who really knows.

I am unsure what the port's current vision for Long Wharf is. With Fort La Tour on one side, the recent beautification/improvements by the pilot vessels, and harbour passage on the other, I think it would be difficult to do something intense. I don't think we can justify another cruise terminal unless something changes dramatically, and other than one-off projects like wind turbines, it gets little other use.

When Barry Ogden announced they had found a spot for the Marco Polo, my first thought was down there somewhere, although I have heard nothing since on that topic.

[cdnguys]

Halifax has 2024 TEU figures: down (-6.8%) from 2023 and down (-15.4%) from 2022. Was in Halifax over weekend and was following truck hauling container to port on Barrington St. / Cogswell interchange area - moving at a snails pace through downtown traffic and this was at off-peak hours. Just wondering if this is a factor in SJ getting more business with port being located right on a highway entrance/exit. Halifax desperately needs the new We'kopekitk rail terminal but I haven’t heard any update on it since end of 2023.

[sailor734]

I think we had RoRo facilities here for awhile some time ago (between pier 1 and 2 maybe?). The concrete floating dock was eventually sold off as surplus and it is now a breakwater and fuel dock at the Saint John Marina.

[sailor734]

Watch the first couple of minutes of this to see just how far Port of SJ has come since the post WW II era. One sad note is the once largest drydock in the world that is now lying long abandoned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxcajmr9Bek

[bingun]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Halifax has 2024 TEU figures: down (-6.8%) from 2023 and down (-15.4%) from 2022. Was in Halifax over weekend and was following truck hauling container to port on Barrington St. / Cogswell interchange area - moving at a snails pace through downtown traffic and this was at off-peak hours. Just wondering if this is a factor in SJ getting more business with port being located right on a highway entrance/exit. Halifax desperately needs the new We'kopekitk rail terminal but I haven’t heard any update on it since end of 2023.

Does the Port of Halifax have plans to counter the decline or shift to Port Saint John? I haven't seen any myself, but is there any news coverage or analysis on their recent performance?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by bingun

Does the Port of Halifax have plans to counter the decline or shift to Port Saint John? I haven't seen any myself, but is there any news coverage or analysis on their recent performance?

Only article I saw on it was a shipping mag article saying some business is bleeding to Saint John, and that was before Maersk calling on SJ. Also I think 2022 was a high mark for them so long term average they are probably on par.

[bingun]

Port Saint John partners looking to diversity imports

https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/new-brun...n-partners-looking-to-diversity-imports/

“Adding automotive imports would diversify DP World’s Canadian cargo base, strengthen its presence in the Atlantic market, and enhance Port Saint John’s role as a multipurpose port,” DP World said in an email to CTV News.

Importing cars is logistically complex, according to DP World, requiring specialized port infrastructure, yard space, and customs procedures. In addition, every vehicle must clear regulatory checks like emissions, safety and VIN documentation.

The company has engaged the International Longshoremen’s Association Local 273 about a Roll-On/Roll-Off (RORO) cargo method opportunity, where vehicles are driven on and off ships using built-in ramps.

According to the company, the method is more efficient, which reduces time at berth, and ideal for high-volume, wheeled cargo. It’s also dependent on specialized ramps, yards, and customs handling.

“The other big one is around breakbulk,” says Bell Estabrooks. “Importing Brazilian eucalyptus and from a wood pulp standpoint, that can be blended with existing forest products in New Brunswick and potentially even further than just New Brunswick.”

Bell Estabrooks says he would like to double, if not triple the tracks out of the port to Bayshore where there is a switching facility. He says Americold’s addition to the waterfront has spurred conversation around food processing and refrigerated goods.

“I think food is one of the big opportunities for us,” he says.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by bingun

Quote:
Bell Estabrooks says he would like to double, if not triple the tracks out of the port to Bayshore where there is a switching facility. He says Americold’s addition to the waterfront has spurred conversation around food processing and refrigerated goods.

“I think food is one of the big opportunities for us,” he says.

I know it's not his jurisdiction but he should be pushing for Simms Corner to be redone - the sooner, the better. 2 or 3 tracks from the port to Bayshore Yard also means more train traffic through Simms Corner. If the autoport becomes a regular thing, mixed with Americold traffic, more and longer interruptions, etc.

If they add autos to the mix, instead of all the autoracks getting cut from the train at Ponderosa yard, multiples of what gets left on Dever Road will now be going down to the port and back to be loaded or unloaded. The trial run is this summer.

Simms Corner should be starting work this year and AFAIK they don't even have a potential design ready to go yet.

[Woho]

Susan Holt brought up Simms Corner when dicussing the port in her post meeting interview on CBC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTFi9VY2CvU&t=1366s

The discussion regarding the port starts at 15:10. I wouldn't be surprised if Simms Corner is considered as one of these "nation-building projects" that Carney has requested the premiers to put forth. Or perhaps a large chunk of a more overarching project to ramp up rain connection to the port.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by Woho

Susan Holt brought up Simms Corner when dicussing the port in her post meeting interview on CBC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTFi9VY2CvU&t=1366s

The discussion regarding the port starts at 15:10. I wouldn't be surprised if Simms Corner is considered as one of these "nation-building projects" that Carney has requested the premiers to put forth. Or perhaps a large chunk of a more overarching project to ramp up rain connection to the port.

From 18:25 to 19:05 she says of the "Saint John Trade Corridor" project, which I assume includes the Simms Corner redesign, "those are ready to move, and I think could be moving before the end of this calendar year".

"Ready to move" in my book means design is complete, funding is arranged, and the project is shovel ready. We'll know by Dec. 31st if she was successful.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Watch the first couple of minutes of this to see just how far Port of SJ has come since the post WW II era. One sad note is the once largest drydock in the world that is now lying long abandoned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxcajmr9Bek

Came across this wicked aerial photo of Saint John in 1945:



full sized here

This old thread of Saint John Aerial Photos also shows how far the Port has come since the mid 2000's. This one picture in particular, shows a very different AIM site.

[sailor734]

The port still looked a fair bit like that when I was growing up on the westside in the 60's-70's, Navy island had been filled in and the Harbour bridge built but many of the slips were still there. Freighters were much smaller and the smallest berthed 2 per side in the longer slips. The look of the westside docks in your photo is basically what was rebuilt after the catastrophic fire in 1931.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

The port still looked a fair bit like that when I was growing up on the westside in the 60's-70's, Navy island had been filled in and the Harbour bridge built but many of the slips were still there. Freighters were much smaller and the smallest berthed 2 per side in the longer slips. The look of the westside docks in your photo is basically what was rebuilt after the catastrophic fire in 1931.

Interesting. I wonder how many of those ships in the 1945 photo were warships, if any?

Also found this one from 1927 (full size linked below)


full size

and this even crazier one from 1923:


almost full size here, but you gotta download the original file from the city's website to see the full 10,000+ pixel wide photo.

It's crazy to see, in this photo above especially, how much was built along the mouth of the river, north of where the Harbour Bridge stands today.


It's astounding how much has changed, and how much land they were able to reclaim from the sea. I hope we see more more land reclaimed for the port as part of Carney's push for projects of national interests. Looking through the past, land reclamation has always been a crucial aspect of increasing Saint John's port operations. Now that we live in time where the largest cargo ships are too big to transit the St. Lawrence Seaway, and we have a Prime Minister that never shuts up about building big and bold projects, I think Port Saint John is poised to see its largest expansion since the construction of the West Side Docks.

Hopefully the future sees more projects that not only expand the footprint of the port's operations in the inner harbour, but also see's Port Saint John expand into Lorneville with a new, deepwater port facility.