CANZUK International - "merger" of UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Luisito

• Video Link

There is no way in a million years Canada or the U.K. would accept CER agriculture provisions.

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

That might work for the “mingong” migrant workers (although I am not sure how after 40+ years how practical it will be to go back to ancestral villages, if it even exists). For people who have residence permits in cities they will need to retire there.

I believe Tim Cook was referring specifically to tooling engineers, who presumably will be subject to the same demographic pressures.

I think it was a combination of tooling, automation and just an understanding of manufacturing process. Apple was after tight mechanical tolerances that they thought they could achieve in China but not other regions.

I am not certain either on the migration back to the country in 40+ years. If you have managed to move into the middle class I can see staying in the city. If your the "working poor" in fairly poor conditions, I can see people wanting to go back to the country side the moment they can. I think this will depend on how effective the government is of raising the standard of living.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by casper

I think it was a combination of tooling, automation and just an understanding of manufacturing process. Apple was after tight mechanical tolerances that they thought they could achieve in China but not other regions.

I am not certain either on the migration back to the country in 40+ years. If you have managed to move into the middle class I can see staying in the city. If your the "working poor" in fairly poor conditions, I can see people wanting to go back to the country side the moment they can. I think this will depend on how effective the government is of raising the standard of living.

But whether you’re middle class or working poor there is often insufficient means of support. Traditionally families are responsible for elder care, but with the next group of pensioners having one child (or zero) support is often not available, and even if it is, it puts an enormous cost on the one child, discouraging them from doing things that cost money, like having kids.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Luisito

• Video Link

This senator is hopelessly naive. He just handwaves away how hard trade deals are "ah yeah mate it'll be the easiest trade deal ever".

I agree with him on principle that there should be no trade barriers, no tariffs by default and supply management should be made illegal tomorrow, with reparations paid by dairy farmers for Canada's lost output due to poor trade deals they have caused. Unfortunately though politics is a thing and each country will have their own stupid industries and reasons to put up barriers. The political capital that would be required to make any sort of deal would be huge, yet the benefits much less than something like NAFTA, CETA or TPP.

And yet again, we see this senator disagreeing with what the core purpose of CANZUK is - he thinks it's all about trade and like the EU. He didn't mention the military at all.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by milomilo

This senator is hopelessly naive. He just handwaves away how hard trade deals are "ah yeah mate it'll be the easiest trade deal ever".

I agree with him on principle that there should be no trade barriers, no tariffs by default and supply management should be made illegal tomorrow, with reparations paid by dairy farmers for Canada's lost output due to poor trade deals they have caused. Unfortunately though politics is a thing and each country will have their own stupid industries and reasons to put up barriers. The political capital that would be required to make any sort of deal would be huge, yet the benefits much less than something like NAFTA, CETA or TPP.

And yet again, we see this senator disagreeing with what the core purpose of CANZUK is - he thinks it's all about trade and like the EU. He didn't mention the military at all.

And meanwhile Canada already has free trade deals in place with Australia, NZ and the U.K. if the U.K is allowed to join TPP we would all be members of the same trade deal.

[Acajack]

So this guy finally prevailed, but just goes to show that even ''englightened" New Zealand isn't immune to the debates of 2021.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-...ts-dated-tie-policy-thrown-out-1.5908564

[Hybrid247]

They broke down social barriers regarding Maori face tattoos in Parliament only to make a big deal out of tie... Lol wow

[vid]

If the Caspian Reports analysis of this hasn't been posted here yet y'all should seek it out. Many good points made about how unworkable such an arrangement would be.

[thurmas]

I see no benefit to canzuk as we have no real connections other than being commonwealth nations we have such different needs and situations far different from one another and no real areas where there would be mutual benefit.

[Hybrid247]

• Video Link

Originally Posted by vid

If the Caspian Reports analysis of this hasn't been posted here yet y'all should seek it out. Many good points made about how unworkable such an arrangement would be.

He gives a pretty good overview and analysis of the implications. My only criticism is that he seems to analyse the topic purely through a lens of federation.

I disagree with his assertion that such a union could only work through some form of political unification. There are clear examples of trade and security blocs that exist without political unification, such as ASEAN and NATO.

It's definitely worth a look, though. He brings up good points about the trade aspect, as well as the military challenges of dealing with both Russia to the east and China to the west simultaneously.

[MonctonRad]

Between CANZUK (properly constituted with a full customs union, free flow of people and a military alliance), CETA and the TPP, Canada might be able to weather the storm of the Trump tyranny (except for maybe the auto sector).

Regarding the latter, I'm of the opinion that if Trump truly wants to destroy our auto sector, then we should nationalize all Big Three auto factories in Canada (without compensation), and retool them for a new home grown auto sector. Magna might be well placed to accomplish something like this, and could be successful, especially if we ban all US auto imports to help them get started.

[savevp]

Noteworthy that the CBC article mentioned all three CANZUK partners specifically having grievances with the dairy cartel in this country.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by savevp

Noteworthy that the CBC article mentioned all three CANZUK partners specifically having grievances with the dairy cartel in this country.

Good excuse to do away with it.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Between CANZUK (properly constituted with a full customs union, free flow of people and a military alliance), CETA and the TPP, Canada might be able to weather the storm of the Trump tyranny (except for maybe the auto sector).

Regarding the latter, I'm of the opinion that if Trump truly wants to destroy our auto sector, then we should nationalize all Big Three auto factories in Canada (without compensation), and retool them for a new home grown auto sector. Magna might be well placed to accomplish something like this, and could be successful, especially if we ban all US auto imports to help them get started.

You do realize Chrysler is part of Stellantis; which is HQ in the Netherlands. So, nationalize an European owned company. That would kill any chance of Canada to expand trade agreements with Europe and other partners. And do you really want to play the game of seizure of American assets in Canada. The US can retaliate by seizing Canadian assets in the US.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

You do realize Chrysler is part of Stellantis; which is HQ in the Netherlands. So, nationalize an European owned company. That would kill any chance of Canada to expand trade agreements with Europe and other partners. And do you really want to play the game of seizure of American assets in Canada. The US can retaliate by seizing Canadian assets in the US.

OK, we'll leave Stellantis alone then (provided they agree to maintain production at their Canadian facilities for the Canadian domestic market, and for export outside North America.

If Trump retaliates with seizure of Canadian assets in the US, then we could just seize US assets in Canada then.

🞵🞵🞵🞵 Trump.

This is war...........

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

OK, we'll leave Stellantis alone then (provided they agree to maintain production at their Canadian facilities for the Canadian domestic market, and for export outside North America.

If Trump retaliates with seizure of Canadian assets in the US, then we could just seize US assets in Canada then.

🞵🞵🞵🞵 Trump.

This is war...........

Nationalizing GM and Ford in Canada without compensation, that's the first salvo. There are many Canadian businesses with a significant presence in the US. Do what you propose to GM Ford and it will be reciprocated by the US with the potential to smack some NB companies quite hard.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Nationalizing GM and Ford in Canada without compensation, that's the first salvo. There are many Canadian businesses with a significant presence in the US. Do what you propose to GM Ford and it will be reciprocated by the US with the potential to smack some NB companies quite hard.

We wait. The CEO of Ford has indicated that they can run for a few weeks at most under the tariff structure.

Ford Canada is a separate corporation that is owned by Ford in the US. If Ford goes into receivership in either or both countries that would be the time for the government to step in and pickup the assets and restructure as a Canadian company. Same thing with GM.

Canada and the US have had to step in a bail them out before. The difference this time is the person running the US government is a major owned of Tesla. That leaves just the Canadian government.

Feds buy all or part of the assets and force a Canada centric corporation, perhaps pickup one of the US plants as a satellite plant controlled from the Canadian Global HQ.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by casper

We wait. The CEO of Ford has indicated that they can run for a few weeks at most under the tariff structure.

Ford Canada is a separate corporation that is owned by Ford in the US. If Ford goes into receivership in either or both countries that would be the time for the government to step in and pickup the assets and restructure as a Canadian company. Same thing with GM.

Canada and the US have had to step in a bail them out before. The difference this time is the person running the US government is a major owned of Tesla. That leaves just the Canadian government.

Feds buy all or part of the assets and force a Canada centric corporation, perhaps pickup one of the US plants as a satellite plant controlled from the Canadian Global HQ.

Oh goody. A crown corporation manufacturing automobiles in Canada. We all know track record of crowns. So, how will this Canadian auto manufacturer compete against the German, Korean and Japanese imports?

[Innsertnamehere]

seizing assets is in general a sure-fire way of tanking investment and your economy. It is NOT a route you want to go down.

If Canada wanted to *buy* the shuttered plants, that would be fine.

A reminder as well that GM, Ford, et al are wildly lobbying the US Fed against Tariffs as they will destroy their businesses. US Domestic auto manufacturers rely on Canada and Mexico more than other manufacturers, particularly for their auto part supplies - They don't want to shut off production in Ontario any more than we want them to.

Ultimately there are a small handful of Americans who actually want to inflict damage on Canada - they just happen to control the White House right now. We need to focus on changing their minds and getting them out of there. Most Americans are not cheering them on. In fact, even many prominent right-wing american pundits are actively questioning it (i.e. Ben Shapiro) - Trumps' odd advances against Canada are NOT popular or supported and are leaving millions of US republicans wondering what the hell is going on.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

seizing assets is in general a sure-fire way of tanking investment and your economy. It is NOT a route you want to go down.

If Canada wanted to *buy* the shuttered plants, that would be fine.

A reminder as well that GM, Ford, et al are wildly lobbying the US Fed against Tariffs as they will destroy their businesses. US Domestic auto manufacturers rely on Canada and Mexico more than other manufacturers, particularly for their auto part supplies - They don't want to shut off production in Ontario any more than we want them to.

Ultimately there are a small handful of Americans who actually want to inflict damage on Canada - they just happen to control the White House right now. We need to focus on changing their minds and getting them out of there. Most Americans are not cheering them on. In fact, even many prominent right-wing american pundits are actively questioning it (i.e. Ben Shapiro) - Trumps' odd advances against Canada are NOT popular or supported and are leaving millions of US republicans wondering what the hell is going on.

A lot of Americans are clueless about the tariffs and even the ones that care have it low on their priority list of issues. The ones that support it are confused - Trump has announced so many tariffs, that no one can keep them straight and many are convinced that the tariffs are retaliatory. The Feds should really invest in some sort of PR campaign to help remind Americans that we have a free trade agreement with them - which Trump signed.