Canadian Federal Election

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In Quebec for a time we weren't allowed to travel outside of our regions, with police checkpoints. We also had curfews - one of the only places in the world that had them.

Anyway, I don't think the overall point is to measure exactly the harshness of anti-COVID measures in Canada versus every other country.

We can safely say that those in Canada were among the strictest and longest-lasting in the world. (Moreso than in the US, which is where this comparative discussion started.)

And BTW, I don't actually think that the reason we did this in Canada was because of some authoritarian streak in our governments. I think it's because of a huge worry that our already fragile healthcare system would undergo a total collapse.

I agree with most of this, especially the remark about the risk of our healthcare system collapsing. Like many of you I am sure, I have quite a few friends and family members that work in the healthcare sector, and things were very grim indeed. My cousin, who is a nurse at the Jewish General in Montreal, did not have a day off work for more than a month (and she has two young children).

On the other hand, a good prof friend of mine who lives outside of Marseilles was arrested for shopping (groceries) outside of prescribed hours. His father died from Covid-related illness in next door Germany, and he was not allowed to travel to Germany.

My brother died (in Montreal) in the middle of worst of the covid lockdowns (and checkpoints in Quebec), but I was able to get permission to travel to Montreal (from London, Ontario) to handle his affairs and empty his house. It was still extremely shitty, not being able to shop for most things during this time.

I hated the lockdowns. I hated the restrictions. But I supported them nevertheless, based on the information that we had at the time.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I hated the lockdowns. I hated the restrictions. But I supported them nevertheless, based on the information that we had at the time.

I fully expect avian flu to make the final jump to human-to-human transmission within the next several years. It is nearly inevitable. I really hope our COVID experience doesn't affect how the governments of the world respond to this new threat. Avian flu has the potential to be orders of magnitude worse than COVID.

Be prepared.............

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

You may want to look up the definition of "most." Sweden was the exception. Unsure about Eastern Europe, but Western and Central Europe had strict COVID restrictions. And that is not even mentioning the COVID restrictions in places like China, Korea and Japan.

In fairness, I lived in Alberta, where the restrictions were less severe than everywhere else, and were lifted in July 2021.

Ok, name one European country that was stricter than Canada.

I was in Korea during COVID for my sister in law’s wedding in April 2021. I’m addition to being able to attend the wedding, we were able to go to sit down restaurants, attend a baseball game (with social distancing) and shop in any store, things that were impossible at that time in much of Canada. They were pretty strict about masks (you had to wear a medical mask except when eating), but generally people could go about their lives much easier than in Canada.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I fully expect avian flu to make the final jump to human-to-human transmission within the next several years. It is nearly inevitable. I really hope our COVID experience doesn't affect how the governments of the world respond to this new threat. Avian flu has the potential to be orders of magnitude worse than COVID.

Be prepared.............

I think everyone from a medical perspective sees this coming next. Hell, why do you think eggs are expensive in the USA???? And who was just sworn in as the Health Secretary?

[dleung]

So... the maple-MAGA claim is that Canadians are less patriotic and more willing to be annexed because Canada whitewashes its history less than our book-burning neighbour, and we avoided a healthcare collapse through stricter covid measures than Sweden, (whereas Trump got turfed over his approach)?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by dleung

So... the maple-MAGA claim is that Canadians are less patriotic and more willing to be annexed because Canada whitewashes its history less than our book-burning neighbour, and we avoided a healthcare collapse through stricter covid measures than Sweden, (whereas Trump got turfed over his approach)?

Whitewashing is of course in the eye of the beholder. The new letting the victims and losers of history write it is as false as letting the winners write it but just as destructive. If Canada is a post national state in the midst of an ongoing genocide why wouldn't we be happy to be annexed? Surely Indigenous Canadians should be happy to be free from the Canadian yoke no?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Toronto and Montréal I believe had the longest and strictest COVID restrictions of any major cities in the world.

Given the more moderate approach by BC and Alberta, I'm not sure why people keep blaming Trudeau for what happened in Ontario and Quebec.

[MolsonExport]

It is weird how Trudeau got all the hate, and Doug Ford seemed to get little of that hate.

Whereas in Quebec, Legault seemed to attract criticism, alongside Trudeau.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It is weird how Trudeau got all the hate, and Doug Ford seemed to get little of that hate.

Whereas in Quebec, Legault seemed to attract criticism, alongside Trudeau.

Hugely ignorant double standard… but not at all surprising given the average Canadian’s beliefs on what each level of government is responsible for/ not responsible for. 😅

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It is weird how Trudeau got all the hate, and Doug Ford seemed to get little of that hate.

Whereas in Quebec, Legault seemed to attract criticism, alongside Trudeau.

Yes the narrative was very weir. There was a brief Queen's Park protest but Ford smartly got rid of any restriction of consequence and it went away. Quebec also relaxed but the F Legault flags were very present at the Convoy. I think that is as much about how Quebec sees thinks. In Ontario we look to the PM for better or worse. Whereas Quebec provincial politics is the primary focus. When inflation arrived in Quebec they blame Legault not Trudeau. Every problem even here by people who know better is blamed on the Feds when the federal levers are often limited.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes the narrative was very weir. There was a brief Queen's Park protest but Ford smartly got rid of any restriction of consequence and it went away. Quebec also relaxed but the F Legault flags were very present at the Convoy. I think that is as much about how Quebec sees thinks. In Ontario we look to the PM for better or worse. Whereas Quebec provincial politics is the primary focus. When inflation arrived in Quebec they blame Legault not Trudeau. Every problem even here by people who know better is blamed on the Feds when the federal levers are often limited.

It's actually not uncommon for Quebecers to protest to the Quebec government for stuff that is primarily a federal responsibility.

And when you compare the attention and seriousness afforded to the Quebec vs Ontario governments, Ontario's almost feels like a "county" administration of sorts. Which makes no sense at all because the Ontario government is the most important provincial government in the country, and second to the feds overall in significance.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It is weird how Trudeau got all the hate, and Doug Ford seemed to get little of that hate.

Whereas in Quebec, Legault seemed to attract criticism, alongside Trudeau.

Ford more or less ended restrictions when vaccines became widely available (except for transit masks which lasted until early 2022). Trudeau kept restrictions for much longer.

I think Ford still should bear a lot of the blame. He too often gave into the COVID Karens.

To me there were three phases. In March and April of 2020 it was a new disease and some scary video was coming out of Italy and China. Large scale lockdowns made sense pending further information becoming available. I think Ford and Trudeau were both reasonable in this era.

From about Spring of 2020 until the vulnerable getting access to vaccines, we knew a lot about how the disease was transmitted. Measures should have been targeted not broad-based. Ford should share blame for this.

From widespread availability of vaccines in mid 2021, I think COVID restrictions were inexcusable and the result of governments trying to capitalize on fear-mongering for political gain. Ford did this a little, but it was mostly Trudeau.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ford more or less ended restrictions when vaccines became widely available (except for transit masks which lasted until early 2022). Trudeau kept restrictions for much longer.

Ford instituted a "partial" lockdown in late 2021 / early 2022 in response to Omicron, no? Vaccines were widely available at this point. This is the lockdown that many people in Ontario were quite angry about, particularly as businesses were starting to get mostly back to normal before being told to reinstate restrictions.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by niwell

Ford instituted a "partial" lockdown in late 2021 / early 2022 in response to Omicron, no? Vaccines were widely available at this point. This is the lockdown that many people in Ontario were quite angry about, particularly as businesses were starting to get mostly back to normal before being told to reinstate restrictions.

This is how I remember things.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ford more or less ended restrictions when vaccines became widely available (except for transit masks which lasted until early 2022). Trudeau kept restrictions for much longer.

No he did all this because of the Convoy. He actually tightened a bunch of things before Christmas and again on January 5th including closing schools. On January 20th he began opening basically within days of getting the OPP report about how big the Convoy was going to be. He sped up the opening as the Convoy gained momentum.

Giving him credit for the very logical move that things ended when vaccines became available seems too generous.

[Marshsparrow]

It's 2025... COVID is so yesterday... move on already.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

It's 2025... COVID is so yesterday... move on already.

Get ready for avian flu 2028.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Whitewashing is of course in the eye of the beholder. The new letting the victims and losers of history write it is as false as letting the winners write it but just as destructive. If Canada is a post national state in the midst of an ongoing genocide why wouldn't we be happy to be annexed? Surely Indigenous Canadians should be happy to be free from the Canadian yoke no?

Many Plains Indigenous people chose Canada over the US because the US would have been a much worse option way back in the 1800s. Canada turned out to be bad as well, but if John A hadn't lied through his teeth and the Indigenous got the fair shake they should have got when settlement was happening it may have turned out differently. Sadly, we are where we are today. I hope Canada, as it's own nation, can figure that out and we can all prosper.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

It's 2025... COVID is so yesterday... move on already.

Mostly agree but the Ford example is important not only in the provincial election context but there is still a lot of anger at Liberals for Covid. Mostly irrelevant on the right but the left wing anti vax crowd is still mad too. The Maple MAHA crowd as it were.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Get ready for avian flu 2028.

Polio 2029!