Canadian Federal Election

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Nazi symbolism didn't even cross my mind. It was the can-can I was focussed on.

As for PP and homophobia/anti-abortionism etc, you just know the Liberal fear mongers are going to trot these accusations out as a matter of course. It is expected, unnecessary and disingenuous. They don't need to do this. All they have to do is effectively characterize PP as a Trumpian stooge and apologist. This by itself would be enough to steal the election.

Just ask the question - Is PP Canada's Quisling????

I think that there's little doubt that many of PP's supporters want him to be both homophobic and anti/abortion and he's not likely to offer up that he's neither of those things. His lesbian deputy aught to be proof enough that he's not homophobic. What I do find interesting is his lack of openness regarding his gay father and his biological American mother. I wonder if he doesn't view these two as perhaps potentially alienating some of his supporters.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

Even with JT gone, the basic PP argument, “if you want more of the past few years, reelect the Libs, if you didn’t like the last few years, elect us to change course” is still somewhat sound.

But change course in what direction?

PP has to show us convincingly and without question that he is not a Trumpian stooge and Republican mole. Right now, I think there is some doubt.

I am a natural Conservative. This means that, all things being equal, I will vote Tory. It also means that circumstances may arise where I would consider parking my vote elsewhere. This is one of those times. Trump wants to see the dissolution of the Canadian state, and, on Air Force One yesterday, he outright said that Canadians were done with Liberalism and would welcome an American takeover. This sounds to me very much like Trump is insinuating himself into the Canadian electoral process and is therefore guilty of foreign meddling and interference. This cannot be tolerated.

Unless PP openly denounces Trump in no uncertain terms, I will be voting Liberal in the next election. As a Canadian patriot, I have no other choice in the matter.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Trudeau Derangement Syndrome.

That's OK, I have Trudeau Derangement Syndrome too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I know you are joking but pretending these are the same as Elon actually touching his heart and then extending the arm in a full on Heil are totally disingenuous. I guess he's using it to troll and the words racist and fascist are so over-used we don't even see it when it's right in our face.

I hope we aren't going to see Polievre called a homophobe etc. It will backfire.

No, I don't think that Elon Musk was deliberately making a Nazi salute or even trolling when he did it. (And I am not alone in thinking this and many "liberal" Americans agree with me.)

That said, I do think that some of his comments that followed were clearly tasteless trolling, à la "oh so you guys wanna go crazy on this, well you'll see that I can do crazy too!"

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Trudeau Derangement Syndrome.

You’re the one who’s out of touch. JT is now so toxic that he ended up having to resign: that’s confirmed reality, no question. That’s the cold hard facts, there’s no derangement syndrome in pointing out that most Canadians wanted to vote JT out ASAFP. Even JT eventually realized it. Hope you will too.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's OK, I have Trudeau Derangement Syndrome too.

Basically what I just posted: if being fed up with JT is “TDS”, then ~80% of Canada has TDS.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by lio45

You’re the one who’s out of touch. JT is now so toxic that he ended up having to resign: that’s confirmed reality, no question. That’s the cold hard facts, there’s no derangement syndrome in pointing out that most Canadians wanted to vote JT out ASAFP. Even JT eventually realized it. Hope you will too.

I think that ME realizes that too. The election will come down to how many people buy Carney’s message vs Poilièvre’s.

[lio45]

One could even add that by MolsonEx’s standards, a good chunk of the current LPC caucus has TDS

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

No, I don't think that Elon Musk was deliberately making a Nazi salute or even trolling when he did it. (And I am not alone in thinking this and many "liberal" Americans agree with me.)

That said, I do think that some of his comments that followed were clearly tasteless trolling, à la "oh so you guys wanna go crazy on this, well you'll see that I can do crazy too!"

Totally coincidental that he goes on to boost the the far-right AfD in Germany. I guess all those Europeans who are refusing to buy Teslas are just gullible morons. Surely, they don't know anything about what Nazism and fascism might look like.

I think he was probably trying to edgelord and troll. But all that is irrelevant. He's way too involved in politics. And he shows way too much sympathy for both racist and authoritarian viewpoints.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Totally coincidental that he goes on to boost the the far-right AfD in Germany. I guess all those Europeans who are refusing to buy Teslas are just gullible morons. Surely, they don't know anything about what Nazism and fascism might look like.

I think he was probably trying to edgelord and troll. But all that is irrelevant. He's way too involved in politics. And he shows way too much sympathy for both racist and authoritarian viewpoints.

I don't know what his purpose was but he clearly did a nazi salute. It's not accidental. He added the from my heart I salute you to give himself some cover but it was pretty clear.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Totally coincidental that he goes on to boost the the far-right AfD in Germany. I guess all those Europeans who are refusing to buy Teslas are just gullible morons. Surely, they don't know anything about what Nazism and fascism might look like.

I think he was probably trying to edgelord and troll. But all that is irrelevant. He's way too involved in politics. And he shows way too much sympathy for both racist and authoritarian viewpoints.

He has no business getting involved in European domestic politics. Both as an official of the US government and a foreigner.

I wonder if the US gave him a diplomatic passport or not?

I fear we are going to see far more of him in our election. Given he is a Canadian citizen he has a right to be involved. I do wonder if he will find the Conservatives to "woke" for his views.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Totally coincidental that he goes on to boost the the far-right AfD in Germany. I guess all those Europeans who are refusing to buy Teslas are just gullible morons. Surely, they don't know anything about what Nazism and fascism might look like.

I think he was probably trying to edgelord and troll. But all that is irrelevant. He's way too involved in politics. And he shows way too much sympathy for both racist and authoritarian viewpoints.

I don't know what being "way too involved in politics" is, or how you would set a threshold for that for a private citizen who can do what he wants with his own time, or how to police that if you could.

Other than publicly deploring it (and I don't disagree he has many edgelord traits), not sure what can be done that would be desirable and acceptable in a free and democratic society.

I also note that under the US political system, the POTUS can nominate and appoint anyone he wants to "secretary" (ministerial) positions in his cabinet. These people need not be elected at all.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by casper

He has no business getting involved in European domestic politics.

Why not? His companies do business there. Also he’s kind of a global celebrity. He’s got the right to his opinion. If people choose to listen, that’s on them.

I would be okay with an European cheesemaker criticizing Canada’s supply management system (i.e. “getting involved in Canadian domestic politics”). Countries don’t each exist in their own vacuum.

Edit — even if you want to completely ignore the business angle, wouldn’t be any worse than Brigitte Bardot “getting involved in domestic Canadian seal hunting”. When you’re a celebrity, you can use that weight to try to further your pet causes, it’s fair game.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

I would be okay with an European cheesemaker criticizing Canada’s supply management system (i.e. “getting involved in Canadian domestic politics”). Countries don’t each exist in their own vacuum.

Your theoretical European cheesemaker isn't an oligarch billionaire with a personal wealth greater than many countries. Musk has the resources to seriously subvert the democratic process. This cannot be allowed.

Unless you are in favour of re-establishing a form of middle age feudalism in a modern context.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Why not? His companies do business there. Also he’s kind of a global celebrity. He’s got the right to his opinion. If people choose to listen, that’s on them.

I would be okay with an European cheesemaker criticizing Canada’s supply management system (i.e. “getting involved in Canadian domestic politics”). Countries don’t each exist in their own vacuum.

Edit — even if you want to completely ignore the business angle, wouldn’t be any worse than Brigitte Bardot “getting involved in domestic Canadian seal hunting”. When you’re a celebrity, you can use that weight to try to further your pet causes, it’s fair game.

My ideal scenario would in fact be for people to stay out of other countries' business, but alas this is not a realistic scenario.

That said I do find it ironic that Canadians are up in arms over stuff like this when we are the biggest finger-pointing sermonizers in the world when it comes to US politics. We are constantly subtly and not-so-subtly telling Americans how they should vote and have been doing it for decades now.

Even many of our politicians do it, so much so that we often don't even notice it anymore.

Individual Canadians including staffers from our political parties even go down there to work on presidential campaigns. (On the Democratic side, mostly.) We can assume it's on their own time and dime. I guess.

And BTW, yes as someone else said Elon Musk is a Canadian citizen so he has even more legitimacy to have his say in our politics and elections. Moreso than Warren Kinsella does in the US, I would assume.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Wonk wonk wonk, you’ve been spewing the same liberal talking points for the past five years..

If those were pictures of Pierre chillin’ with Ghislaine you’d be losing your shit.

Admit it. Can you?

Nobody cares. Admit that.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't know what being "way too involved in politics" is, or how you would set a threshold for that for a private citizen who can do what he wants with his own time, or how to police that if you could.

Other than publicly deploring it (and I don't disagree he has many edgelord traits), not sure what can be done that would be desirable and acceptable in a free and democratic society.

I also note that under the US political system, the POTUS can nominate and appoint anyone he wants to "secretary" (ministerial) positions in his cabinet. These people need not be elected at all.

Their system also requires confirmation by Congress. He has actually not been appointed to any Cabinet role (which is what their Secretaries are). And he is basically trying to speedrun a smash and grab before the courts shut him down.

US aside, dude is clearly determined to push far right nonsense worldwide. It's not just a US thing. And he's not just sticking to countries where he has citizenship (like Canada and South Africa). I think when Germans start viewing him as Nazi adjacent I am going to believe them over making apologies and excuses for his behaviour.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by lio45

I agree that “axe the tax” won’t work if Carney also promises to axe it, but PP’s main quality, “not being JT”, can easily be switched to “not being the party that, over the last decade, drove us to where we are now”. You can bet the CPC will be pushing to link Carney to the JT-era LPC as much as possible.

Even with JT gone, the basic PP argument, “if you want more of the past few years, reelect the Libs, if you didn’t like the last few years, elect us to change course” is still somewhat sound.

Doesn't Carney have more linkages to Harper and the previous Conservative government than JT?

[Wigs]

The only people that seem to care of the UK "Poshfest" photos are Hecate and Build.It/formerly Lighting Guy.

They see Mark Carney as a threat to what they assumed was a Poilievre "sure thing" and are

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Your theoretical European cheesemaker isn't an oligarch billionaire with a personal wealth greater than many countries. Musk has the resources to seriously subvert the democratic process. This cannot be allowed.

Unless you are in favour of re-establishing a form of middle age feudalism in a modern context.

More broadly, if Musk can get away with this, so can a bunch of other folks. And even a bunch of foreign governments. The same people who are freaking out over China's control of Tik Tok don't seem to understand why other countries might also have a problem with a foreign billionaire using platforms he owns to push his ideology.