Statistics Canada Reports II

[Cowtown_Tim]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

'Better city'?

Edmonton has Jasper, but yes, a bit more of a hike and as a result far less stupidity with crowds and a proper getaway.

Both offer a lot for a little, albeit Calgary's prices are getting up there. I predict it will hit $1,000,000 before I retire.

I won’t argue that Calgary’s the better city, it’s all a matter of preference and both cities have their virtues, but the mountain related virtues belong to Calgary, having a distinct advantage when it comes to proximity and options.

-Within 1 hour or less from Calgary you can be in the mountains in an hour or less and do a number of activities that don’t require a planned trip and an overnight stay, and could even be done in a morning or an afternoon. Activities can vary from quiet nature trails to the the busy locations of Banff or Canmore which offer a variety of shopping and restaurants. Accommodations range from rustic hostels or camping to 3 of Alberta’s 4 Michelin Key hotels, and 4 good ski resorts.

-Within 3 hours of Calgary you can also be in the Columbia Valley, Crowsnest Pass or Waterton as well as 8 solid ski resorts.

- Within 4 hours we have Jasper (same as Edmonton), and we’re 5 hours to the beautiful Shuswap and other BC interior locations.


As for house prices, I agree Calgary’s are getting too expensive. I guess it’s all relative. Some recent newcomers to the neighborhood are from Toronto and Vancouver and they think the prices are a bargain.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

I also doubt home prices in Calgary will hit $1,000,000 in my lifetime.

I don't. SFH prices keep climbing higher and higher even if you can still get condos under $400k and townhouses under $500k

https://www.creb.com/Housing_Statistics/documents/12_2024_Calgary_Monthly_Stats_Package.pdf

Any market where folks from southern Ontario and the Greater Toronto Area show up flush with cash and ready to enter bidding wars and outbid locals for housing is screwed. That's starting in Alberta, Calgary specifically, two fold.

You have retirees moving to Calgary, some families seeking a lower cost of living (particularly real estate) and you have GTA home builders and developers popping up.

I don't think many Albertans understand how Calgary is quickly becoming a lot more expensive than Edmonton.
January 2005 - November 2024


The benchmark SFH (3 bed, 2 bath typical home) differential price between Calgary and Edmonton is now over $220k. It looks like this started to be noticeable around 2 years ago and the gap appears to continue to be growing.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Cowtown_Tim

I won’t argue that Calgary’s the better city, it’s all a matter of preference and both cities have their virtues, but the mountain related virtues belong to Calgary, having a distinct advantage when it comes to proximity and options.

-Within 1 hour or less from Calgary you can be in the mountains in an hour or less and do a number of activities that don’t require a planned trip and an overnight stay, and could even be done in a morning or an afternoon. Activities can vary from quiet nature trails to the the busy locations of Banff or Canmore which offer a variety of shopping and restaurants. Accommodations range from rustic hostels or camping to 3 of Alberta’s 4 Michelin Key hotels, and 4 good ski resorts.

-Within 3 hours of Calgary you can also be in the Columbia Valley, Crowsnest Pass or Waterton as well as 8 solid ski resorts.

- Within 4 hours we have Jasper (same as Edmonton), and we’re 5 hours to the beautiful Shuswap and other BC interior locations.


As for house prices, I agree Calgary’s are getting too expensive. I guess it’s all relative. Some recent newcomers to the neighborhood are from Toronto and Vancouver and they think the prices are a bargain.

There's no hard and fast definition for what's in a city's 'playground' but generally from an urban amenity definition it would be something less than 2 hours (and even that's pushing it) as that doesn't involve having to stay overnight to do all or any activity. Once you're in a position of having to stay overnight somewhere, you're in a different region. Examples of urban amenity playgrounds would be Winnipeg to the sandy beaches, Ottawa to Algonquin Park or Montreal, Vancouver to the ocean or the mountains, Quebec city to the ski hills.
As an example me and my work colleagues often work half days on Fridays in the summer, finish work at 11:00am and drive to Canmore to do the Legacy bike trail, have a beer and some lunch at a pub, and still be back to Calgary before dinner. Same for a number of other activities. You can leave home at 10:00am, hike a mountain to the peak and still be home for dinner. Same goes for skiing, etc..

Once you get past 2 hours distance, any city could consider any area as their playground. Lloydminster for example could claim the Rockies as part of their playground. Some here in Calgary refer to Invermere and the Columbia valley as being part of our playground, as it is 2.5-3 hrs away and lot of Calgarians own property there, but you can't do daytrip activities there, so I don't consider it part of our playground so to speak.

Anything past 3 hours, but less than 8 hours could be considered an area of decent driving access as it can be driven to within a day. Edmonton to Jasper, Montreal to NYC, Calgary to the Shuswaps or the Okanagan, Winnipeg to the Great lakes. The list could go on forever.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Why is Calgary bizarre? My Uncle & Aunt retired from the GTA to Calgary (sell high, buy low) so I'm sure others have as well. That's 2 added to the population that weren't there 4 or 5 years ago. They enjoy being a short drive to the Rockies.

That's seems to be the sweetspot for Calgary. A mix of affordability and the mountains

https://dailyhive.com/calgary/calgary-named-best-place-live-canada-2025

Calgary claimed the top spot on MovingWaldo’s list last year, with the moving company highlighting YYC’s affordability and proximity to Banff.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Wigs

The benchmark SFH (3 bed, 2 bath typical home) differential price between Calgary and Edmonton is now over $220k. It looks like this started to be noticeable around 2 years ago and the gap appears to continue to be growing.

The difference when it comes to median price for a SFH is 195K....I can't find the stats to say what the average square footage as it may not be an apples to apples comparison. Either way still a sizable gap.
Apartments have have an alarming gap percentage-wise.
With median for Calgary at 318K compared to 185K in Edmonton. Again it hard to say if it's an apples to apples comparison, like where the apartments are and how many are concrete vs wood, etc..

Bottom line though, affordability has been slipping away in Calgary. The good news is Calgary's median prices have come down in the past 2 quarters. The gap between Calgary and Edmonton over the past two quarter has narrowed.
https://creastats.crea.ca/mls/calg-median-price
https://creastats.crea.ca/mls/edmo-median-price

[Wigs]

A ~$200k difference between Calgary and Edmonton is significant as one could buy a decent Edmonton condo for that price

[ssiguy]

Over the last 50 years Calgary's growth rate has always been higher than Edmonton's and there is no reason to think that trend will not continue. Remember is was only about 20 years ago that Calgary overtook Edmonton as the province's largest city. Calgary will continue to solidify it's position of Canada's 4th city and in 15 years it won't even be a conversation.

Yes, Calgary certainly has the advantage of being much closer to the mountains and benefitting from the Chinooks that make it's winters far more tolerable than Edmonton's but it goes way beyond that.

Calgary is simply much safer, cleaner, and a much more vibrant city with a lot of interesting neighbourhoods surrounding it's downtown all while the Stephen Avenue Mall is arguably the most successful pedestrian-only street in the country. Edmonton has Whyte Ave which is very nice but it's over the Sask River in Strathcona which seems like another world compared to it's highly unappealing and dead downtown.

Edmonton is Canada's Rodney Dangerfield city.........it gets no respect but unfortunately, due to decades of shockingly bad urban planning, it's a reputation that's well deserved. Superficially, yes Calgary and Edmonton seem very similar but on the ground they could hardly be more different if they tried.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Wigs

I don't. SFH prices keep climbing higher and higher even if you can still get condos under $400k and townhouses under $500k

https://www.creb.com/Housing_Statistics/documents/12_2024_Calgary_Monthly_Stats_Package.pdf

Any market where folks from southern Ontario and the Greater Toronto Area show up flush with cash and ready to enter bidding wars and outbid locals for housing is screwed. That's starting in Alberta, Calgary specifically, two fold.

You have retirees moving to Calgary, some families seeking a lower cost of living (particularly real estate) and you have GTA home builders and developers popping up.

I don't think many Albertans understand how Calgary is quickly becoming a lot more expensive than Edmonton.
January 2005 - November 2024


The benchmark SFH (3 bed, 2 bath typical home) differential price between Calgary and Edmonton is now over $220k. It looks like this started to be noticeable around 2 years ago and the gap appears to continue to be growing.

A co-worker was looking for a home in a different neighbourhood (his was in McKenzie Lake) and every house he looked at that wasn’t a new build had a bidding war, with Ontarians coming in with above ask offers quite often.

He ended up buying a place in the tiny hamlet of Shepard on the eastern edge of the city with no sewer system (it has a septic tank). Houses there are starting to get renoed or bulldozed.

My townhouse home assessment by the city came in just under $500k. My brother in law’s townhouse in Skyview Ranch in NE Calgary by the airport came in just $40k less than mine. Last year the assessed value of my home was just over $400k.

[Chinook Arch]

Originally Posted by Wigs

A ~$200k difference between Calgary and Edmonton is significant as one could buy a decent Edmonton condo for that price

Calgary’s is for sure more expensive, but those numbers posted by Surrealplaces and other numbers out there are deceiving. If you were to take a 600 square-foot apartment in a newer suburb on the edge of the city and compare to something similar in Edmonton, it would be more like 60K difference, but not 200K difference. Same if you were to compare a 2500 square-foot newly built single-family home in a new area on the edge of the cities there might be about 200K difference.
One thing that Edmonton has way more of than Calgary is older apartment stock, you can’t get old cheap apartments in Calgary very easily, but Edmonton has lots of them, and it affects the average price.
Also, Edmonton has more older single family houses from the 1940s 50s or 60s era.
Overall, Edmonton has more inventory of cheaper housing stock and it affects the average price but if you were to do an apple to apples comparison, the gap isn’t as large as most people think it is.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Chinook Arch

Calgary’s is for sure more expensive, but those numbers posted by Surrealplaces and other numbers out there are deceiving. If you were to take a 600 square-foot apartment in a newer suburb on the edge of the city and compare to something similar in Edmonton, it would be more like 60K difference, but not 200K difference. Same if you were to compare a 2500 square-foot newly built single-family home in a new area on the edge of the cities there might be about 200K difference.
One thing that Edmonton has way more of than Calgary is older apartment stock, you can’t get old cheap apartments in Calgary very easily, but Edmonton has lots of them, and it affects the average price.
Also, Edmonton has more older single family houses from the 1940s 50s or 60s era.
Overall, Edmonton has more inventory of cheaper housing stock and it affects the average price but if you were to do an apple to apples comparison, the gap isn’t as large as most people think it is.

Agreed and that's why I mentioned that averages and not always apples to apples. Edmonton is still cheaper apples to apples, but the average figures aren't a true indication of cost.
Just for kicks I compared the number of apartments in the two cities and when they were built. almost the exact same number, but Calgary does have a larger amount of newer ones and a larger number of apartments in highrises. Also the vast majority of those Calgary apartments in highrise buildings were built in the past 20 years and many were condos. Could be part of why there's a large disparity between apartment prices.


Apartments in total (2021)

Calgary 148,795
Apartment or flat in a duplex 21,405
Apartment in a building that has fewer than five storeys 86,640
Apartment in a building that has five or more storeys 40,750
Built in the last 20 years 95,191
Built in the last 10 years 63,360



Edmonton 147,110
Apartment or flat in a duplex 10,955
Apartment in a building that has fewer than five storeys 105,235
Apartment in a building that has five or more storeys 30,920
Built in the last 20 years 76,855
Built in the last 10 years 35,282

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by craner

Similarly there is no waterfall in “Great Falls, Montana”.

There are actually five waterfalls in Great Falls; which support five hydro dams.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Wigs

I don't. SFH prices keep climbing higher and higher even if you can still get condos under $400k and townhouses under $500k

https://www.creb.com/Housing_Statistics/documents/12_2024_Calgary_Monthly_Stats_Package.pdf

Any market where folks from southern Ontario and the Greater Toronto Area show up flush with cash and ready to enter bidding wars and outbid locals for housing is screwed. That's starting in Alberta, Calgary specifically, two fold.

You have retirees moving to Calgary, some families seeking a lower cost of living (particularly real estate) and you have GTA home builders and developers popping up.

I don't think many Albertans understand how Calgary is quickly becoming a lot more expensive than Edmonton.
January 2005 - November 2024


The benchmark SFH (3 bed, 2 bath typical home) differential price between Calgary and Edmonton is now over $220k. It looks like this started to be noticeable around 2 years ago and the gap appears to continue to be growing.

I understand perfectly how Calgary is becoming more pricey than Edmonton. This is the main reason I am in Edmonton now. If Calgary was equal to Edmonton, I would move at the end of the month.

I don't see the average home price in Calgary eclipsing $1,000,000 at time soon. I think once immigration levels recede to historical levels, the housing market will correct itself.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

A co-worker was looking for a home in a different neighbourhood (his was in McKenzie Lake) and every house he looked at that wasn’t a new build had a bidding war, with Ontarians coming in with above ask offers quite often.

My townhouse home assessment by the city came in just under $500k... Last year the assessed value of my home was just over $400k.

Ontarians moving in droves driving the price up and property assessments are starting to skyrocket for existing homeowners

To not clog up the thread, I put the rest behind spoiler tags

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Just for kicks I compared the number of apartments in the two cities and when they were built. almost the exact same number, but Calgary does have a larger amount of newer ones and a larger number of apartments in highrises. Also the vast majority of those Calgary apartments in highrise buildings were built in the past 20 years and many were condos. Could be part of why there's a large disparity between apartment prices.


Apartments in total (2021)

Calgary 148,795
Apartment or flat in a duplex 21,405
Apartment in a building that has fewer than five storeys 86,640
Apartment in a building that has five or more storeys 40,750
Built in the last 20 years 95,191
Built in the last 10 years 63,360

Edmonton 147,110
Apartment or flat in a duplex 10,955
Apartment in a building that has fewer than five storeys 105,235
Apartment in a building that has five or more storeys 30,920
Built in the last 20 years 76,855
Built in the last 10 years 35,282

Divide by population and Edmonton has more apartments per capita, as of 2021 data. Interesting to see the raw numbers and how recently many were built, though.

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

I understand perfectly how Calgary is becoming more pricey than Edmonton. This is the main reason I am in Edmonton now. If Calgary was equal to Edmonton, I would move at the end of the month.

I don't see the average home price in Calgary eclipsing $1,000,000 at time soon. I think once immigration levels recede to historical levels, the housing market will correct itself.

Did you not see O-tacular's anecdote of Ontarians moving to Calgary and outbidding locals in price wars?
My Uncle & Aunt probably outbid a local for the condo they wanted. In the GTA they had a two storey almost 2,500 sq ft single family house. I don't know what they sold for but can guesstimate it was in the range of $1.5 million or close.

My point is Calgary and Edmonton housing markets used to be closer in pricing and rise and fall in tandem. At some point in the past two years the Calgary market decoupled and started rising noticeably quicker than Edmonton's.

Ontario's population is now close to 16,500,000. Alberta's is around 5,000,000. The amount of new and upcoming retirees of the youngest baby boom generation and oldest Gen Xers means there's a near limitless supply of Ontarians wanting to cash out which will permanently alter Calgary's housing market.

I'm certainly no genius, but it's not difficult to see trends if you've been following Canada's real estate markets. I gave O-tacular heads up years ago. Like most things in life one doesn't fully grasp a situation until they witness it first hand.

The days of Calgary having such good value for the money are starting to disappear...rapidly.

Even historically dirt cheap rental markets like Edmonton, Winnipeg, Québec City apartment rental prices have risen quite dramatically in a rather short period of time.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

the Stephen Avenue Mall is arguably the most successful pedestrian-only street in the country.

This would be a tougher argument to make if Canada had more than a small handful of pedestrian streets. I think Stephen Avenue is more successful than Sparks Street, but not by a huge amount. If we're measuring success by the intensity of pedestrian, commercial and other activities, I think you'd have to give the top spot to rue de la Gauchetière in Montreal Chinatown, although it's much shorter than either Stephen Ave. or Sparks St. (300m vs just under 900m for both of those). Another contender is Ste-Catherine Street in the Quartier des spectacles, which is about 450m long and very busy all the time. (We won't consider Wellington or Mont-Royal, because they're seasonal, but they would definitely take the cake if they were year-round.)

Still, Stephen Avenue is a real asset and one that doesn't get enough credit. There was a push to de-pedestrianize it in the late 90s, and it partially succeeded, with cars allowed after 6pm. (AFAIK that's only the case in the winter now.) It would have been a huge loss if that had been allowed to happen.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Divide by population and Edmonton has more apartments per capita, as of 2021 data. Interesting to see the raw numbers and how recently many were built, though.

For sure, and Edmonton has always had more apartment stock, especially if you look back at apartments built in the 60' and 70's, Edmonton had a skyline of apartment towers as far back as the 70's, and at that time in Calgary you could count the number of high-rise apartments on one hand.
The apartment building craze only really took off in Calgary around 2000, when a handful of highrises were built in the west end. Later around 2005, the Beltline became the area for new highrise apartment towers.

I envy Edmonton for having a good amount of that older apartment housing, what small amount there is in Calgary has been dwindling even more as they get built by newer more expensive buildings. I think all those newer buildings is one of the factors in why there's such a large differential in the average price of apartments. Not the only reason, but one of the reasons for sure.

[supai]

Originally Posted by Cowtown_Tim

I won’t argue that Calgary’s the better city, it’s all a matter of preference and both cities have their virtues, but the mountain related virtues belong to Calgary, having a distinct advantage when it comes to proximity and options.

-Within 1 hour or less from Calgary you can be in the mountains in an hour or less and do a number of activities that don’t require a planned trip and an overnight stay, and could even be done in a morning or an afternoon. Activities can vary from quiet nature trails to the the busy locations of Banff or Canmore which offer a variety of shopping and restaurants. Accommodations range from rustic hostels or camping to 3 of Alberta’s 4 Michelin Key hotels, and 4 good ski resorts.

-Within 3 hours of Calgary you can also be in the Columbia Valley, Crowsnest Pass or Waterton as well as 8 solid ski resorts.

- Within 4 hours we have Jasper (same as Edmonton), and we’re 5 hours to the beautiful Shuswap and other BC interior locations.


As for house prices, I agree Calgary’s are getting too expensive. I guess it’s all relative. Some recent newcomers to the neighborhood are from Toronto and Vancouver and they think the prices are a bargain.

No question Calgary is close to the mountains and has a beautiful rocky mountain skyline. I wish Edmonton was closer; however, Edmonton is closer than you think. It is always stated Edmonton is four hours to Jasper. However, that is distance to the Jasper town site which is 365 kms from Edmonton, so technically under 4 hours of driving. The Jasper National Park entrance is closer at around three hours from Edmonton. The rocky mountains at their closest to Edmonton is about 220 kms southwest as the crow flies. (This is evident when your travelling on a plane. The Rockies are visible at times in the southwest when landing at YEG). However, since there are no direct southwest roads from Edmonton it is a longer drive. I have hiked and explored the Rocky Mountains extensively and although it would be nice to be closer to them like Calgary; I am grateful that living in Edmonton the beautiful Rocky mountain parks are quite accessible.

[Base]

For the vast majority of people and the amount they use them whether it’s an hour or 3.5 to the mountains it’s not an important enough difference to really matter to their quality of life.

I’ve done many day trips from Edmonton to Marmot. It can be a long day for sure but quite do-able.

[MolsonExport]

I'd love to have the problems that Edmonton has regarding access to Jasper.

I'm an avid skier, stuck in London, Ontario. Damn, I miss my Vancouver, Kelowna, and Montreal Days for the skiing options. I lived in Edmonton too, but that was a long time ago.

[Chinook Arch]

Originally Posted by Base

For the vast majority of people and the amount they use them whether it’s an hour or 3.5 to the mountains it’s not an important enough difference to really matter to their quality of life.

I’ve done many day trips from Edmonton to Marmot. It can be a long day for sure but quite do-able.

I would agree. Most people I know, including myself use the mountains once in a while. For those who use them regularly the difference is important, but regular users make up a fairly small percentage.
I think it's a mental/perception thing. In people's mind they like knowing they're near the Rockies. One of my coworkers moved here from Edmonton last year, and supposedly one of the main reasons was to be near the mountains, but to my knowledge she's only gone to Banff once.

[phone]

Originally Posted by someone123

I know this post is a joke but Southern NB, PEI, and Halifax function in roughly the same way as city pairs like Saskatoon-Regina or Edmonton-Calgary. PEI is hard to compare to the Prairies as a relatively dense area of farms and towns. It's sort of like a piece of the Fraser Valley, but on an island.

I guess the only other cross-provincial-border city pair like Moncton-Halifax is Ottawa-Montreal. There's even passenger rail service connecting Moncton-Halifax still, although it's not that useful most of the time. With Moncton-Halifax the corridor itself is also somewhat developed with small towns like Truro. Around 1 million people live along that corridor.

You're absolutely right, and I thought it was only a matter of time before someone pointed it out!

I myself am looking forward to a trip to the Maritimes this summer. It will be great to see how much Moncton and Halifax have grown since the last time I was there nearly 10 years ago. And seeing how built-up the highway between them is. Truro and Amherst certainly outweigh Davidson and Chamberlain by a couple orders of magnitude.