UBCx - Millennium Line Extension Arbutus to UBC | Proposed - Page 28

aberdeen5698 · #**541** Posted **Oct 15, 2024, 7:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

... Yeah, that's a crappier bus.

Only in Elon's rarefied bubble would a bus with a capacity of 20 whole people count as "high density".

jollyburger · #**542** Posted **Oct 15, 2024, 4:01 PM**

Wrong thread.

mcj · #**543** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 1:06 AM**

Wonder if/when we'll get an update on that business case that was supposed to be finished for this in December 2024.

BaddieB · #**544** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 2:31 AM**

Why are they doing a business case? I know that's the status quo to do a billion studies stating the obvious but is there any actual benefit. I doubt that when they do a cost benefit analysis that they measure the opportunity cost of not having the Skytrain because of it needing more studies. Politicians are going to do what they want to do and a study is just going to corroborate that. It's like doing a business case study for breathing air.

jollyburger · #**545** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 2:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Why are they doing a business case? I know that's the status quo to do a billion studies stating the obvious but is there any actual benefit. I doubt that when they do a cost benefit analysis that they measure the opportunity cost of not having the Skytrain because of it needing more studies. Politicians are going to do what they want to do and a study is just going to corroborate that. It's like doing a business case study for breathing air.

I mean until it blows up and then people cry about not having done due diligence on the project. Do a study on the opportunity cost of not having SkyTrain because they don't have the funding to build the extension.

madog222 · #**546** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 3:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Why are they doing a business case? I know that's the status quo to do a billion studies stating the obvious but is there any actual benefit. I doubt that when they do a cost benefit analysis that they measure the opportunity cost of not having the Skytrain because of it needing more studies. Politicians are going to do what they want to do and a study is just going to corroborate that. It's like doing a business case study for breathing air.

So that we don’t end up with political pet projects.

chowhou · #**547** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 5:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Why are they doing a business case? I know that's the status quo to do a billion studies stating the obvious but is there any actual benefit. I doubt that when they do a cost benefit analysis that they measure the opportunity cost of not having the Skytrain because of it needing more studies. Politicians are going to do what they want to do and a study is just going to corroborate that. It's like doing a business case study for breathing air.

I'm pretty anti business cases for Skytrain expansion replacing existing high traffic bus routes, but this is one area I think it might be needed. The only reason I think it's needed is to have a preemptive attack against the inevitable West Side NIMBY onslaught. Don't want to be caught with your pants down when two hundred year old seniors crawl out of the sludge to hammer on about how "there's no evidence this is the right choice for the West Side" and "We were never given a chance to review the plans" (as if that's a right they ought to have).

BaddieB · #**548** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 5:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by madog222

So that we don’t end up with political pet projects.

We do still end up with pet projects though. Business case studies just had a veneer of legitimacy.

aberdeen5698 · #**549** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 6:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by madog222

So that we don’t end up with political pet projects.

"Remember the PacificCats!"

Sheba · #**550** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 6:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

The only reason I think it's needed is to have a preemptive attack against the inevitable West Side NIMBY onslaught. Don't want to be caught with your pants down when two hundred year old seniors crawl out of the sludge to hammer on about how "there's no evidence this is the right choice for the West Side" and "We were never given a chance to review the plans" (as if that's a right they ought to have).

Exactly this

osirisboy · #**551** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 7:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by madog222

So that we don’t end up with political pet projects.

lol

madog222 · #**552** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 12:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

"Remember the PacificCats!"

Also see Surrey Light Rail.

cganuelas1995 · #**553** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 12:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by madog222

Also see Surrey Light Rail.

Which will never happen because why would translink want to have to deal with an additional mode? We have two and a half flavors of train, a ferry, and two flavors of bus. They're talking about an SFU gondola too.

chowhou · #**554** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 1:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Which will never happen because why would translink want to have to deal with an additional mode? We have two and a half flavors of train, a ferry, and two flavors of bus. They're talking about an SFU gondola too.

CMBC is actually maintaining four (and a half) bus technologies right now. Diesel, trolley, battery electric, and natural gas (plus the community shuttles have gasoline engines.)

I tend to agree, it really would be Translink's best interest to not have to maintain so many different technologies to solve the same problem. There's an economy of scale (and economy of simplicity) from all busses and all trains having the same parts. I really wish we weren't fragmenting our bus fleet in the name of improving the "ecofriendliness" of busses while ignoring that they're already orders of magnitude more ecofriendly than personal vehicles and the money would be better spent improving service and getting people out of cars instead...

aberdeen5698 · #**555** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 1:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

I tend to agree, it really would be Translink's best interest to not have to maintain so many different technologies to solve the same problem. There's an economy of scale (and economy of simplicity) from all busses and all trains having the same parts.

I used to believe this of airlines, and then some of them went under because the they were too heavily invested in a fleet of 737 Max jets and were killed when they were all grounded. Sometimes diversity is a good thing.

Luckily transit vehicles aren't generally as susceptible to those kinds of fleetwide issues (except: the early days of Skytrain Mk I cars and snowstorms!)

chowhou · #**556** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 1:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I used to believe this of airlines, and then some of them went under because the they were too heavily invested in a fleet of 737 Max jets and were killed when they were all grounded. Sometimes diversity is a good thing.

Luckily transit vehicles aren't generally as susceptible to those kinds of fleetwide issues (except: the early days of Skytrain Mk I cars and snowstorms!)

I don't think we'd ever say this about the Skytrain rolling stock (oh no, it's all Innovia Metro!) And regardless, CMBC still sources from multiple manufacturers, primarly NFI and Nova Bus.

WarrenC12 · #**557** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 4:43 PM**

Haven't we had multiple business cases already?

idunno · #**558** Posted **Jan 7, 2025, 5:17 PM**

All great points re: business casing.

A business case means all the technical "homework" is done, so that when you go to engage on, approve or construct a project, you have the legitimate responses to all of the naysayers. "This project is great because X, Y, Z." "No, it won't result in A, B, C calamities that you west side NIMBYs are saying it will, because we studied that and it turns out it'll bring D, E and F benefits." etc.

TransLink identified the Regional Base Scope for UBCX, which confirmed SkyTrain and 4 stations. The Province may or may not be dragging its feet on completing the business case, but I'm hopeful we hear something soon now that election season is over with.