Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd still rather be in France than in Argentina right now, though yes the countries seem to be going in opposite directions.

Still a long way to go for Argentina.

OK, so Javier Milei has announced that Argentina has completely eliminated its deficit.

[New Brisavoine]

Yeah, he's being talked a lot in France. He's not the awful caricature that the left and most French medias have made, but I would still reserve my judgment because I have a hard time seeing him transferring power to another administration gracefully, especially if he lost the elections. But French (economically) liberals (a minority species here) certainly find in him some inspiration.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

This complex has an eerie air or resemblance with a similar complex in Le Mans.

Also known as “The London Coffee House”. (Quebec City was more Anglo than one would think, during its Anglo peak.)

I’ve been in that building. It’s hard to miss

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Also known as “The London Coffee House”. (Quebec City was more Anglo than one would think, during its Anglo peak.)

The name doesn't prove much though. France is full of Hôtels d'Angleterre for example (it was the most common hotel name in France in the 19th century, don't know if it's still the case today), this despite not being a colony of the English. Hôtel de Londres is also a fairly common name.

PS: Ah, I see "Hôtel d'Angleterre" (in French) is also a fairly common name for hotels elsewhere in Europe.
For example in Copenhagen: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_d%E2%80%99Angleterre
or Saint Petersburg: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80
It's an odd combination of Anglomanic names + French international language (in the 19th century, especially in the hotel sector).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Also known as “The London Coffee House”. (Quebec City was more Anglo than one would think, during its Anglo peak.)

I’ve been in that building. It’s hard to miss

I date myself, but you used to see Globe and Mail newspaper boxes out on the streets of Quebec City.

[New Brisavoine]

^^And New York Herald Tribune news stands in the streets of Paris.

This famous scene from an iconic Nouvelle Vague movie of the 1960s.

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The name doesn't prove much though. France is full of Hôtels d'Angleterre for example (it was the most common hotel name in France in the 19th century, don't know if it's still the case today), this despite not being a colony of the English. Hôtel de Londres is also a fairly common name.

PS: Ah, I see "Hôtel d'Angleterre" (in French) is also a fairly common name for hotels elsewhere in Europe.
For example in Copenhagen: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_d%E2%80%99Angleterre
or Saint Petersburg: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80
It's an odd combination of Anglomanic names + French international language (in the 19th century, especially in the hotel sector).

As I am sure you can find places called Café de Paris and Hôtel Versailles in Portland, Oregon or Adelaide, Australia. And of course many such names are found in Japan.

But even in deepest Quebec, there is a historic relationship with English that doesn't exist in France.

Even Quebec City which is extremely francophone today, was around 40% anglophone in the middle of the 1800s.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^And New York Herald Tribune news stands in the streets of Paris.

This famous scene from an iconic Nouvelle Vague movie of the 1960s.

• Video Link

Jane Seaberg?

[New Brisavoine]

So I've asked the question that agitates some here to... Grok.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Jane Seaberg?

Yeap.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Jane Seaberg?

Probably the best French actress ever to come out of Iowa.

[Acajack]

Last night I went to see Monsieur Aznavour at my local cinema.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evoYNCdZGOQ

It was quite enjoyable with a few surprises that made me smile.

For example, Édith Piaf telling Charles Aznavour and his acolyte Pierre Roche, who had followed her to New York in the hopes of making it big in the US, to go north to Montréal instead.

(I knew Aznavour had a connection to Montréal and Québec, but did not know the details.)

So the action moved to Montréal for a little while, complete with snow and of course Québécois accents.

It was funny to see a couple of Quebec actors I know, playing in this movie.

One historical inaccuracy. Several times there is a reference to "Québécois" (even Piaf herself says "the Québécois will love you guys!") but at the time, French Canadians did not refer to themselves as "Québécois" and were not referred to as Québécois by anyone else either.

They would have been referred to as "Canadiens" or "Canadiens français".

[P'tit Renard]

IMO Poilievre's hit the right notes in his TVA interview, on why we need a smaller federal government:

«Le QC sera beaucoup plus fort quand je serai premier ministre. Pourquoi? Parce que le fédéral sera beaucoup plus petit. On va réduire le pouvoir et la taille de l’État fédéral et laisser aux Québécois et au QC plus d’autonomie.»

https://x.com/carlvallee/status/1867690999822135525

[mousquet]

^ I've always wondered whether strong local/regional governments and a submissive central state wouldn't be better to serve the population as a whole.

That's what I posted about the recent disaster in Mayotte, an overseas archipelago of the French Republic in the Mozambique channel (Indian ocean, southeast of Africa), that was completely devastated by a hurricane last weekend.
I've never seen such devastation in any French territory in the media. I bet even experienced politicians are dumbstruck.
Mayotte is downright third world, full of shanty towns built by illegals from the neighboring Comoros. I take the French centralized state responsible for the disaster.
The French state is evil, impoverishing their own population at this point.

I don't like Donald Trump very much (he's a jerk), but I must admit his derogatory term of a so called "deep state" that would be malicious to some extent is relevant when it comes to the French Republic.
I came to think that the French pay loads of taxes to maintain a massive and hellish central administration that actually impoverishes them, out of stubborn ideology or mere selfishness and laziness.
The story in Mayotte should be taken as a national tragedy and shame anyway.
It shows that France is slowly but surely sinking, because of her pitiful "deep state".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

^ I've always wondered whether strong local/regional governments and a submissive central state wouldn't be better to serve the population as a whole.

That's what I posted about the recent disaster in Mayotte, an overseas archipelago of the French Republic in the Mozambique channel (Indian ocean, southeast of Africa), that was completely devastated by a hurricane last weekend.
I've never seen such devastation in any French territory in the media. I bet even experienced politicians are dumbstruck.
Mayotte is downright third world, full of shanty towns built by illegals from the neighboring Comoros. I take the French centralized state responsible for the disaster.
The French state is evil, impoverishing their own population at this point.

I don't like Donald Trump very much (he's a jerk), but I must admit his derogatory term of a so called "deep state" that would be malicious to some extent is relevant when it comes to the French Republic.
I came to think that the French pay loads of taxes to maintain a massive and hellish central administration that actually impoverishes them, out of stubborn ideology or mere selfishness and laziness.
The story in Mayotte should be taken as a national tragedy and shame anyway.
It shows that France is slowly but surely sinking, because of her pitiful "deep state".

I have lived my entire life with the debate about whether one part of my country would be better off as a smaller entity, or not.

The thing is that there are advantages of government being smaller and therefore closer (de proximité) to the people.

On the other hand, larger entities also have their advantages in terms of resources and capacity.

Small isn't always beautiful, but bigger isn't always better.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

IMO Poilievre's hit the right notes in his TVA interview, on why we need a smaller federal government:

«Le QC sera beaucoup plus fort quand je serai premier ministre. Pourquoi? Parce que le fédéral sera beaucoup plus petit. On va réduire le pouvoir et la taille de l’État fédéral et laisser aux Québécois et au QC plus d’autonomie.»

https://x.com/carlvallee/status/1867690999822135525

I think this is absolutely a successful argument in Quebec. In practice if PP overturns our middle of the road consensus say slashing CCB, cancelling the daycare agreement, small business supports etc and also cancels the GST and slashes income tax Quebec would struggle to backfill those supports and also not easily be able to fill the "tax room" Certainly if Quebec has a 6% higher sales tax rate compared to NB and Ontario they would bleed a lot of revenue. All that to say I am not sure Quebec really gets power from this arrangement.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think this is absolutely a successful argument in Quebec. In practice if PP overturns our middle of the road consensus say slashing CCB, cancelling the daycare agreement, small business supports etc and also cancels the GST and slashes income tax Quebec would struggle to backfill those supports and also not easily be able to fill the "tax room" Certainly if Quebec has a 6% higher sales tax rate compared to NB and Ontario they would bleed a lot of revenue. All that to say I am not sure Quebec really gets power from this arrangement.

Cancelling the GST is bordering fantasy. It's just not going to happen given the state of finances. At most Poilievre can afford to cut income tax rates.

The daycare agreement mainly impacts provinces outside of Quebec, so not sure why Quebec would have a bigger tax room to fill than other provinces.

I doubt slashing CCB is in the cards either, but I could see a Conservative government severely restricting NPRs and recent questionable PRs from applying for CCB, which would help protect the program from abuse.

Not sure what small buisness support Quebec is disproportionately benefiting from...

[kwoldtimer]

Between structural deficits, defence spending and First Nations, among other things, I think the idea that the next government can cut taxes in any meaningful way is laughable.

[Acajack]

Wouldn't be the first time the Conservatives have tried this.

Stephen Harper did, and Chantal Hébert even wrote a book about it.

https://www.amazon.ca/French-Kiss-Stephen-Harpers-Quebec/dp/0676979084

For some reason, Québécois never bite.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wouldn't be the first time the Conservatives have tried this.

Stephen Harper did, and Chantal Hébert even wrote a book about it.

https://www.amazon.ca/French-Kiss-Stephen-Harpers-Quebec/dp/0676979084

For some reason, Québécois never bite.

It's one of those alliances that looks like it could work, but never does.

There's a similar issue on the other side of the spectrum: the NDP theoretically could get support from QS voters in Quebec. Also never really happens.