Canadian Airport Thread II

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J81

Hes not wrong! To fly anywhere out of the maritimes this winter is outrageously expensive. Im driving 8hrs to Boston in April to fly out for my cruise because even with the 800$ for a hotel the night before and after, im still saving almost 2k for my wife and i as opposed to flying out of my local airport a 10 min cab ride away.

Wow it's more than $1400 a person more! I can't believe it's even possible to cost that much full stop.

I guess the airlines must be making some money during some of the time. The cost to fly at Christmas is also astronomical though I see cheap flights to Florida ironically.

[whatnext]

Flair manages to find itself entangled with more sketchy goings on:

U.S. regulator orders Flair Airlines lenders to stop accepting money from new clients
Eric Atkins Transportation reporter
Published 3 hours ago
For Subscribers
A U.S. regulator has ordered insurance companies owned by a major Flair Airlines investor and lender to stop accepting money from new clients, citing the insurers’ poor financial conditions.

The Utah Insurance Commissioner issued the emergency order on Dec. 2 after a third-party financial audit revealed three insurers owned by Advantage Capital Partners held high-risk investments, were in dire financial states and held more than 10 per cent of their total investments in a single company, in violation of state law.

The audit found loans made to Flair by the insurers were almost worthless.

Advantage Capital Partners, led by Kenneth King and known as A-Cap, is a lender to 777 Partners, the Miami-based investor in Flair and European soccer teams that has seen some assets fall into bankruptcy this year amid several lawsuits.

In May, Edmonton-based Flair said 777 Partners was no longer its largest foreign investor and that a company related to 777 had acquired its shares. Flair has declined to name the new investor, but a person familiar with the matter said it is Advantage Capital Partners, which took over the 777 investments. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the person because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the matter...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...irlines-lenders-to-stop-accepting-money/

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There is a vast gulf between frequent fliers and the vast majority of the unwashed who maybe take a flight once every few years to visit the kids. All these people want is a simplified travel experience. Instead, they are confronted with automatic kiosks at check-in they do not know how to operate, surprising rules regarding what they can and cannot take on board with them (and these seem to change every few months), unexpected surcharges up and down the ying yang that they did not expect and little if any help at the kiosks as to what they have to do.

And this is even before the endocavitary search at security control. Multiply these complications x3 for cross border flights.

Add in surly service, and no wonder people bitterly complain about flying any more.

This is a huge change from my introduction to air travel about 1970. Back then, there were actual helpful attendants at check in. Your luggage was automatically checked and tags were put on your luggage for you. Gate attendants were polite and helpful. Stewardesses checked on you frequently during the flight, and you were actually served a hot inflight meal, included as part of the cost of the ticket! And, to top it all off, you bag was waiting for you at the carousel within only a few minutes of deplaning. Lost baggage was a rarity.

Things were so simple back then.........

And there was smoking on flights during that era. Cough, cough and one would stink like the high heaven after a flight.

[LO 044]

I think the bigger issue with all these fees is that does anyone not think that Basic Fares have become Ultra Basic Fares? It's not like any of the airlines are actually lowering their fares AND THEN offering you the option to pay what you paid say 2 months ago. Many people will avoid the $35 carry-on fee and airlines will lose money unless of course they don't really lower the fares.

If airlines want to push customers to use checked baggage then their liability should be very clear and punitive when your luggage gets lost and then they shrug their shoulders.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm all for simplified fare structures, like existed in the 70s and 80s.

= There should be three classes of seating - first class, business class and steerage. Period.
- All tickets should allow a personal item, a carry-on and one checked bag. This should be included in the cost of the ticket.
- Extra baggage fees should only exist for extra baggage. Period.
- All seats should be pre-assigned at purchase. Period.

Easy peasy.

Agreed, but let’s not call economy, steerage.

As what’s the first thing ppl think of with that word?

[Dominion301]

Looks like Porter will be picking up 3 more DH4s on lease: https://newsroom.aviator.aero/kgal-inves...d,KGAL%20and%20Deutsche%20Lufthansa%20AG.

That's exactly what they need for them to add the likes of YQG/YSB/YSJ/YQB/YXU/YHM/YKF-YOW 1-3x daily. Add to their current +3 frames of DH4 slack to build up larger YOW banks to feed the likes of LAX & SFO.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Looks like Porter will be picking up 3 more DH4s on lease: https://newsroom.aviator.aero/kgal-inves...d,KGAL%20and%20Deutsche%20Lufthansa%20AG.

That's exactly what they need for them to add the likes of YQG/YSB/YSJ/YQB/YXU/YHM/YKF-YOW 1-3x daily. Add to their current +3 frames of DH4 slack to build up larger YOW banks to feed the likes of LAX & SFO.

Reading this again, this may be nothing more than a sale and leaseback of 3 aircraft from within the existing fleet.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Reading this again, this may be nothing more than a sale and leaseback of 3 aircraft from within the existing fleet.

Anecdotally, an FA for PD told me these are additional DH4's to be added to the fleet. Mind you, this is information coming from talks/rumours between FAs/Pilots. PD does not confirm anything to them.

[casper]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Anecdotally, an FA for PD told me these are additional DH4's to be added to the fleet. Mind you, this is information coming from talks/rumours between FAs/Pilots. PD does not confirm anything to them.

I don't think it is on their radar. But it should be.

We desperately need Q400 over on the west coast. Both Air Canada and WestJet are underserving the short range market out of Vancouver. I did 4 Air Canada Q400 flights last week, they were offering money for people to give up their seats on two flights and the other two were also full. WestJet service has been very limited into smaller communities, not certain what is going with them.

Having a number of Q400 with a Vancouver hub would be idea for onward Porter and Alaska flights.

Now that porter has some pilots and cabin crew based in Vancouver, next step is to based a fleet here.

[Myst]

Originally Posted by casper

I don't think it is on their radar. But it should be.

We desperately need Q400 over on the west coast. Both Air Canada and WestJet are underserving the short range market out of Vancouver. I did 4 Air Canada Q400 flights last week, they were offering money for people to give up their seats on two flights and the other two were also full. WestJet service has been very limited into smaller communities, not certain what is going with them.

Having a number of Q400 with a Vancouver hub would be idea for onward Porter and Alaska flights.

Now that porter has some pilots and cabin crew based in Vancouver, next step is to based a fleet here.

Maybe. On the flip side - there is both AC and WS on many YVR regional routes, and Pacific Coastal and Central Mountain Air filling in some spots. The place where there is a real competitive void - is on the prairies. I don’t know that I’d go head-on in YYC, but YEG maybe, or a carefully planned point-to-point and 1-stop routing network. And if Porter’s strategy is to become #2 everywhere, it would fit.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Myst

Maybe. On the flip side - there is both AC and WS on many YVR regional routes, and Pacific Coastal and Central Mountain Air filling in some spots. The place where there is a real competitive void - is on the prairies. I don’t know that I’d go head-on in YYC, but YEG maybe, or a carefully planned point-to-point and 1-stop routing network. And if Porter’s strategy is to become #2 everywhere, it would fit.

Base some Q400 in Winnipeg. They can provide local connections to Saskatoon, Regina, and perhaps some of the other under served destinations with onward connections to central and eastern Canada.

[Myst]

Or just extend the YWG-YOW route to YXE. And when the YWG-Montreal route gets added, extend it to YQR. Increase E195 utilization rather than needing more crew and aircraft. Consolidating traffic like that might help balance loads. There’d be a little room for local traffic. And it would be relatively few seat-miles added, so less financial risk.

Extend YEG flights to Prince George or elsewhere, or add Q400’s as an alternative to YVR or YYC for northern Alberta and BC eastbound traffic.

Maybe even try something like Red Deer to Vancouver. While Red Deer was always tough, it is getting to be a decently sized city. Try to find ways to draw traffic away from YYC, rather than battling it out at WS’s fortress.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by casper

I don't think it is on their radar. But it should be.

We desperately need Q400 over on the west coast. Both Air Canada and WestJet are underserving the short range market out of Vancouver. I did 4 Air Canada Q400 flights last week, they were offering money for people to give up their seats on two flights and the other two were also full. WestJet service has been very limited into smaller communities, not certain what is going with them.

Having a number of Q400 with a Vancouver hub would be idea for onward Porter and Alaska flights.

Now that porter has some pilots and cabin crew based in Vancouver, next step is to based a fleet here.

Actually adding more DH4s is on their radar. They mentioned they are not ruling out more DH4s to the fleet a few months ago including using some DH4 routes to YYZ. Right now however, as they acquire more slots at YYZ, their focus is to place E2s on those slots. YOW on the other hand can be built up with both DH4s and E2s immediately and with ease. If these new DH4s are in fact additions to the fleet, I would be very surprised if they are not used to add at least 3-4 more feeder cities to YOW.

As much as I would love to see PD serve coast to coast and within the West as well, their main focus right now is YYZ, YOW, YUL, and YHZ. The YVR base is probably just to do YVR-YYZ/YOW/YUL for now. Maybe that will change in the future, but not in the immediate future. They need some time for that brand recognition in the West also.

[zahav]

Forgive me if I asked this before, but what is the deal with YYC still not posting September pax stats? I don't know if someone answered already, but seems odd for them to be this behind? YVR September stats came out before YUL and YYC, and now YVR has October stats up, and YYC is only up till August? I have checked stats for years, and YYC always seemed to be the quickest of the 3 to post traffic data. But now this? I'm dying if there's a cause to the hold-up or if someone at the airport authority just forgot to post them lol! I've frequently emailed YVRAA over the years to ask where the stats are lol, they probably recognize my name because most of the general public would not contact them for that . A few times I have suspected they totally did just forget haha, understandable, there's so many other parts of the website that are vastly more important for them to stay current with than a PDF of numbers When I emailed and asked for an update on when they'd post the stats, they would then get posted like an hour later lol, too much a coincidence IMO. If there's no public reason why, someone should email them and ask what's the delay (call me strange, but for some reason I don't feel comfortable emailing an airport that's not mine and asking what's the delay, it feels rude or something, hard to explain.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Actually adding more DH4s is on their radar. They mentioned they are not ruling out more DH4s to the fleet a few months ago including using some DH4 routes to YYZ. Right now however, as they acquire more slots at YYZ, their focus is to place E2s on those slots. YOW on the other hand can be built up with both DH4s and E2s immediately and with ease. If these new DH4s are in fact additions to the fleet, I would be very surprised if they are not used to add at least 3-4 more feeder cities to YOW.

As much as I would love to see PD serve coast to coast and within the West as well, their main focus right now is YYZ, YOW, YUL, and YHZ. The YVR base is probably just to do YVR-YYZ/YOW/YUL for now. Maybe that will change in the future, but not in the immediate future. They need some time for that brand recognition in the West also.

Exactly. Any new DH4s will be for YOW expansion first, followed by rebuilding YTZ and then for YHU. So with all that, it’s easy to see how a fleet of 40 DH4s eventually is realistic. The existing DH4 fleet this summer (assuming they can hire enough crew), has enough slack to easily add YOW-YQG/YXU/YQB/YSJ and add YHZ-YQX.

YXU & YQG are the biggest no-brainers of them all. Both airports are still at around half of pre-pandemic capacity and YOW-YXU was flown for +40 years on AC and affiliates pre-pandemic.

[MonctonRad]

I'm hoping for one of the initial Porter routes out of YHU to be to YQM. Porter already serves YTZ and YUL out of YQM.

[Alexcaban]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm hoping for one of the initial Porter routes out of YHU to be to YQM. Porter already serves YTZ and YUL out of YQM.

Porter doesn't operate YQM-YUL at all.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

Porter doesn't operate YQM-YUL at all.

Sorry, I meant YOW. My mistake. This would connect YQM to YTZ, YOW and YHU.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by zahav

Forgive me if I asked this before, but what is the deal with YYC still not posting September pax stats? I don't know if someone answered already, but seems odd for them to be this behind? YVR September stats came out before YUL and YYC, and now YVR has October stats up, and YYC is only up till August? I have checked stats for years, and YYC always seemed to be the quickest of the 3 to post traffic data. But now this? I'm dying if there's a cause to the hold-up or if someone at the airport authority just forgot to post them lol! I've frequently emailed YVRAA over the years to ask where the stats are lol, they probably recognize my name because most of the general public would not contact them for that . A few times I have suspected they totally did just forget haha, understandable, there's so many other parts of the website that are vastly more important for them to stay current with than a PDF of numbers When I emailed and asked for an update on when they'd post the stats, they would then get posted like an hour later lol, too much a coincidence IMO. If there's no public reason why, someone should email them and ask what's the delay (call me strange, but for some reason I don't feel comfortable emailing an airport that's not mine and asking what's the delay, it feels rude or something, hard to explain.

Can't actually say if one thing has to do with another. But YYC pulled a fair amount of staff to help with the insurance loss of and now capital rebuild of pier B after the hail loses. Those staff members were allocated from other divisions to get through the initial stages and could just be behind.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Exactly. Any new DH4s will be for YOW expansion first, followed by rebuilding YTZ and then for YHU. So with all that, it’s easy to see how a fleet of 40 DH4s eventually is realistic. The existing DH4 fleet this summer (assuming they can hire enough crew), has enough slack to easily add YOW-YQG/YXU/YQB/YSJ and add YHZ-YQX.

YXU & YQG are the biggest no-brainers of them all. Both airports are still at around half of pre-pandemic capacity and YOW-YXU was flown for +40 years on AC and affiliates pre-pandemic.

Although nowadays, YKF would probably offer a bigger market.