Canadian Airport Thread II

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Airlines have nobody but themselves to blame, they started that fiasco when they started charging for bags.

My last flight out of Toronto was delayed 30 minutes thanks to a full high density 777 and the bag circus.

Well it looks like Air Canada crossed a red line. The CEOs of the major airlines have been told they will be a meeting in Ottawa to explain themselves.

Where is the popcorn... This will be entertaining.....

• Video Link

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Airlines have nobody but themselves to blame, they started that fiasco when they started charging for bags.

My last flight out of Toronto was delayed 30 minutes thanks to a full high density 777 and the bag circus.

In hindsight, they should have imposed the carry-on fee at the same time as the check-in fee, and made the former higher than the latter.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by casper

Well it looks like Air Canada crossed a red line. The CEOs of the major airlines have been told they will be a meeting in Ottawa to explain themselves.

Where is the popcorn... This will be entertaining.....

• Video Link

I'm sure they'll serve far more than popcorn. What was the spread when the Liberals invited grocery CEOs to "explain themselves"?

[kwoldtimer]

OK for others but unacceptable for Air Canada?

[casper]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

OK for others but unacceptable for Air Canada?

I believe the CEOs of all the airlines have been summoned to Ottawa for a talking to.

I do agree, Air Canada being the largest has drawn the attention of the minister. They need to be given direction to reverse course first, but the same direction needs to be given to the others. Especially WestJet.

Canada has standards. The airlines need to meet them.

[kwoldtimer]

I hope that the airlines tell the Committee, with all due respect, to pound salt.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I hope that the airlines tell the Committee, with all due respect, to pound salt.

I'm all for simplified fare structures, like existed in the 70s and 80s.

= There should be three classes of seating - first class, business class and steerage. Period.
- All tickets should allow a personal item, a carry-on and one checked bag. This should be included in the cost of the ticket.
- Extra baggage fees should only exist for extra baggage. Period.
- All seats should be pre-assigned at purchase. Period.

Easy peasy.

[Dominion301]

PD start YHZ-TPA today 3x/week and daily YHZ-MCO starts tomorrow: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2...-Florida-With-First-Flights-From-Halifax

[Dominion301]

AC announce YVR-MNL starting 01APR25:https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ku...ween-vancouver-and-manila-803617322.html

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm all for simplified fare structures, like existed in the 70s and 80s.

= There should be three classes of seating - first class, business class and steerage. Period.
- All tickets should allow a personal item, a carry-on and one checked bag. This should be included in the cost of the ticket.
- Extra baggage fees should only exist for extra baggage. Period.
- All seats should be pre-assigned at purchase. Period.

Easy peasy.

easy peasy until you realize it increases flight costs by 20%.

There is a reason airlines have moved in this direction. Pay for what you need. Just doing a short hop for a business meeting - why do you need to pay for checked bags?

Seat assigments even make a bit of sense. If you don''t care, take the savings at get sat at the back. If you do care, pay the $30 and pick a prime seat at the front of the plane.

[niwell]

This is basically mirroring the direction all domestic airline flights are going in North America is it not?

The main annoyance I have with this is that advertised flight "deals" tend to only apply to the basic flight where a larger carryon requires an extra fee. I absolutely get why this is the case from a business perspective but I'd rather see a discount applied if you choose to opt for a flight with zero frills.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

easy peasy until you realize it increases flight costs by 20%.

There is a reason airlines have moved in this direction. Pay for what you need. Just doing a short hop for a business meeting - why do you need to pay for checked bags?

Seat assigments even make a bit of sense. If you don''t care, take the savings at get sat at the back. If you do care, pay the $30 and pick a prime seat at the front of the plane.

Yes some of it is paying for what you use. There are two other aspects one good and one less so. One is it also lets them charge more to some customers who get all of the above service but still choose the cheaper initial fare not calculating they will need the extras.

But you also get people who wouldn't travel otherwise or would have taken another form of transport. Being able to fly to Florida for $100 means you zip down to where you already have a full wardrobe in your condo for a couple of days. This fills up the flight making the difference between profitable or not and allowing all fares to be lower.

All that said the model doesn't seem to be super successful in North America. With Spirit and Frontier struggling and Flair never really getting off the ground. Our mainline airlines adding it more and more is probably related to above but also on Air Canada I think the idea to now charge for carry on is as much about ending the hunger games of carry on wheelies that has developed as they charge for luggage but not carry-ons. They can speed up boarding if they charge for them and some people shift to checked luggage. Travelling especially with 2 or 3 people splitting a checked bag is cheaper and easier and you can board last with pleasure with only a personal item.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

PD start YHZ-TPA today 3x/week and daily YHZ-MCO starts tomorrow: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2...-Florida-With-First-Flights-From-Halifax

Good for Halifax YHZ & it should do well during the Winter season✅!

[MonctonRad]

There is a vast gulf between frequent fliers and the vast majority of the unwashed who maybe take a flight once every few years to visit the kids. All these people want is a simplified travel experience. Instead, they are confronted with automatic kiosks at check-in they do not know how to operate, surprising rules regarding what they can and cannot take on board with them (and these seem to change every few months), unexpected surcharges up and down the ying yang that they did not expect and little if any help at the kiosks as to what they have to do.

And this is even before the endocavitary search at security control. Multiply these complications x3 for cross border flights.

Add in surly service, and no wonder people bitterly complain about flying any more.

This is a huge change from my introduction to air travel about 1970. Back then, there were actual helpful attendants at check in. Your luggage was automatically checked and tags were put on your luggage for you. Gate attendants were polite and helpful. Stewardesses checked on you frequently during the flight, and you were actually served a hot inflight meal, included as part of the cost of the ticket! And, to top it all off, you bag was waiting for you at the carousel within only a few minutes of deplaning. Lost baggage was a rarity.

Things were so simple back then.........

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

AC announce YVR-MNL starting 01APR25:https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ku...ween-vancouver-and-manila-803617322.html

Nice add for Vancouver YVR!

Air Canada is expected to get 1 more delivery of a brand new Boeing 787-9 plane ✈️ come (sometime in 2025). It made it possible for them to add YVR- Manila MNL.

[Nouvellecosse]

I personally don't mind paying for the specific bags I need as long as I actually am paying less if I travel light. And am not paying more overall than before if I do need to pay for bags. If there's anything the average person wants more than simplicity it's low prices considering that Canada has some of the most expensive flights in the OECD.

But if the combined price when adding bags is higher than it was when bags were included then no. And that's the risk when you get to advertise a low base price rather than an inclusive one.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I personally don't mind paying for the specific bags I need as long as I actually am paying less if I travel light. And am not paying more overall than before if I do need to pay for bags. If there's anything the average person wants more than simplicity it's low prices considering that Canada has some of the most expensive flights in the OECD.

But if the combined price when adding bags is higher than it was when bags were included then no. And that's the risk when you get to advertise a low base price rather than an inclusive one.

We have expensive flights because we don't subsidize and arguably even make money off of airports and we are a fairly sparse country with only a few competitive frequent routes. We could totally deregulate allowing foreign airlines to enter and destroy our domestic carriers and really we'd have maybe 2 or three cheap routes. Toronto to Calgary and Vancouver and a few shorter routes that should be train trips anyway.

[Nouvellecosse]

It's been well documented that the main cost driver is the taxes and fees at domestic airports. The whole deregulation thing is just an excuse trotted out by the same people who view that as a solution for everything regardless of the actual issue.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It's been well documented that the main cost driver is the taxes and fees at domestic airports. The whole deregulation thing is just an excuse trotted out by the same people who view that as a solution for everything regardless of the actual issue.

Hes not wrong! To fly anywhere out of the maritimes this winter is outrageously expensive. Im driving 8hrs to Boston in April to fly out for my cruise because even with the 800$ for a hotel the night before and after, im still saving almost 2k for my wife and i as opposed to flying out of my local airport a 10 min cab ride away.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I personally don't mind paying for the specific bags I need as long as I actually am paying less if I travel light. And am not paying more overall than before if I do need to pay for bags. If there's anything the average person wants more than simplicity it's low prices considering that Canada has some of the most expensive flights in the OECD.

But if the combined price when adding bags is higher than it was when bags were included then no. And that's the risk when you get to advertise a low base price rather than an inclusive one.

The entire system is complex. If you have status in their loyalty program, or have the right credit card, or are connecting overseas or veteran or active service etc. you get a free checked bag. If you the flight is full (and most are) at check in and at the gate they offer free checked bags to reduce the number of bags in the cabin.

The consumer protection rules need to define a base minimum that all the airlines need to meet. A flight contains a certain amount of baggage (either in cabin or checked).