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  #3281  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2023, 12:19 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
The planned changes were made public a few months ago.

The bus network is remaining unchanged for the first winter (with the exception of the 74 returning to Riverview and the 99 serving Limebank).

Afterwards, the 97 will be cut and replaced with supplemental trips on the 98, and the 99 will be cut back to end at Limebank. Everything else remains unchanged.
I believe they also said Route 74 would be extended to end/start at Limebank.

My understanding is these changes are kind of the obvious basics. More changes may be made following the comprehensive route review.

Personally, I wish they used the Route 97 operating hours to add trips to Route 96, and maybe extend Route 40 to Hurdman at all times.
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  #3282  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2023, 9:44 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Year and a half late on what's essentially a very simple project is maddening. When looking at progress east-west compared to this, it's incomprehensible. Worse is that the City did not include a clause in the contract asking for the original O-Train segment be prioritized.

• Video Link
Super minor detail but I couldn't help but notice at 2:18 of the video showing Uplands station, where the station name signage on the platform shelter is marked with a green line (denoting Line 2) while the direction signage on the fence between the tracks is marked with a blue line (denoting Line 4). Based on OC Transpo's future O-Train network map, Uplands is supposed to be a Line 4 (blue) station, even if the airport spur is supposedly part of the greater "Trillium line" (green?) expansion. I wonder if they've managed to confuse themselves with the nuances of their chosen numbering/naming scheme.
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  #3283  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2023, 11:07 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
I believe they also said Route 74 would be extended to end/start at Limebank.

My understanding is these changes are kind of the obvious basics. More changes may be made following the comprehensive route review.

Personally, I wish they used the Route 97 operating hours to add trips to Route 96, and maybe extend Route 40 to Hurdman at all times.
Route 93 has higher ridership in a fast growing area.
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  #3284  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 3:29 PM
Hybrid247 Hybrid247 is offline
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Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
Super minor detail but I couldn't help but notice at 2:18 of the video showing Uplands station, where the station name signage on the platform shelter is marked with a green line (denoting Line 2) while the direction signage on the fence between the tracks is marked with a blue line (denoting Line 4). Based on OC Transpo's future O-Train network map, Uplands is supposed to be a Line 4 (blue) station, even if the airport spur is supposedly part of the greater "Trillium line" (green?) expansion. I wonder if they've managed to confuse themselves with the nuances of their chosen numbering/naming scheme.
Good eye. It's indeed supposed to be blue. Trillium is well into the deficiency review stage of the project and this will undoubtedly be corrected before revenue service.
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  #3285  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2023, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Route 93 has higher ridership in a fast growing area.
Fair - I like the idea of Route 96 becoming a more frequent cross-town route (with modified routing to connect to Woodroffe and to Baseline Station).

That said, I'm more taking issue with SE Transitway service being supplemented by additional trips from Route 98 rather than taking the oppurtunity to build utility on one of the other routes that currently ends at Greenboro, whether that is the 40, 96, or 93
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  #3286  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2023, 4:06 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere

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  #3287  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2023, 1:10 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Double lint train at Greensboro this evening
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  #3288  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Psychedelic Sailor View Post
Turns out that link is no longer valid. :/

Is there a more permanent link?
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Franky: Ajldub, name calling is what they do when good arguments can't be found - don't sink to their level. Claiming the thread is "boring" is also a way to try to discredit a thread that doesn't match their particular bias.
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  #3289  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2023, 4:21 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
Turns out that link is no longer valid. :/

Is there a more permanent link?
You can use this one: https://www.railfans.ca/discord
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  #3290  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2023, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
You can use this one: https://www.railfans.ca/discord
That worked, thanks!
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  #3291  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 5:26 AM
vtecyo vtecyo is offline
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The new mup bridge at Carleton had its concrete poured recently. It looks like it shouldn't take more than a month to grade and pave some ramps, add some railings and wire up a few lights... But then again - everything always takes longer than I think it should. It would be a shame if this doesn't open before the snow starts falling.



I've been looking forward to this new river crossing for a long time - it should be massively better than climbing up over Bronson Speedway Bridge.
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  #3292  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 12:41 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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It should be totally transformative for students moving about the City.

Once this is open, it's no longer out of the question to simply walk or bike to school from Billings Bridge, rather than the insurmountable Bronson bridge/interchange.

I used to take the curly queue route on the #7 from Heron every day, and eventually even gave up on that and took the #97 to Greenboro before taking the oTrain. Somehow that was faster, depending on bus times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtecyo View Post
The new mup bridge at Carleton had its concrete poured recently. It looks like it shouldn't take more than a month to grade and pave some ramps, add some railings and wire up a few lights... But then again - everything always takes longer than I think it should. It would be a shame if this doesn't open before the snow starts falling.



I've been looking forward to this new river crossing for a long time - it should be massively better than climbing up over Bronson Speedway Bridge.
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  #3293  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 5:12 PM
vtecyo vtecyo is offline
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
It should be totally transformative for students moving about the City.

Once this is open, it's no longer out of the question to simply walk or bike to school from Billings Bridge, rather than the insurmountable Bronson bridge/interchange.

I used to take the curly queue route on the #7 from Heron every day, and eventually even gave up on that and took the #97 to Greenboro before taking the oTrain. Somehow that was faster, depending on bus times.
It should be great most of the time. The only problem I can see is that the path along the south/east side of the river is unlit, and I don't know if it gets cleared of snow in the winter. If not - I hope they realize how much more useful the path could be year round if they clear it from Billings Bridge all the way along to Heron Road bridge.
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  #3294  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 5:25 PM
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Bridge replacement on the Queensway: 3 days over a weekend.

Installing a MUP bridge anywhere: 2 years.
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  #3295  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2023, 5:46 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Bridge replacement on the Queensway: 3 days over a weekend.

Installing a MUP bridge anywhere: 2 years.
I feel like that glosses over the years of work involved with preparing for the 3-day rapid replacement.
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  #3296  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2023, 2:30 AM
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Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
I feel like that glosses over the years of work involved with preparing for the 3-day rapid replacement.
Well yes, but when the bridge is built and ready, Queensway takes three days. Ped/cycling bridges still take a year or two after they've been put into place.

Sure they are more complicated structures, but there's no reason this couldn't have opened at least a year ago.
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  #3297  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
He almost certainly isn't.
I suspect the guy is confusing Line 1 and Line 2 then. I can't see anyway "a fleet of Ferraris to take the kids to school" wouldn't refer to Line 2.

Quote:
"Nearly a billion dollars" is maybe a stretch.
That's my mistake. I thought the cost was closer to $800 (which I would consider "close to a $Billion), but I see now that it's $633 million. I still don't think that's good value for our money. Stage 2 was about serving the rural and suburban south for as cheap as possible while providing existing riders as little improvements as possible.

Quote:
"Virtually no upgrades to existing stations" is also quite an exaggeration. The existing stations have received some meaningful upgrades in terms of shelter, signage, fire exits, and a redundant elevator at Dow's Lake. What more was expected? (aside from double tracking)

I want to emphasize again that "could have been much better" is still not the same as "made things worse".
Dow's Lake in an embarrassment. Plenty of TOD that has gone up, and continues to go up, a major regional hospital, and still just one platform, no connection to the south of the street. The redundant elevator is appreciated, sure, but it's not much of a consolation.

Carleton ensures a huge part of the line's ridership. The wider underpass is an upgrade, but overall, it's pretty much status quo.

Stations had shelters before. Unsure if they were heated or not. I believe the new ones are. I'd take better frequency everyday over heated (often overheated) shelters.

With simple stations like we have on Line 2, I'm not sure I'd count signage as a major upgrade.

Fore exists are likely never to be used. They don't improve the day to day experience.

What I would have expected is at the bare minimum double tracking Walkley to increase frequency (an insignificant increase of 4%-6% of the budget) and double tracking Dow's Lake which will see significant ridership growth over the next few years. I'd also liked to have seen a proper upgrade to Carleton to something more akin to the Confederation Line.

If, and it's a big IF, the City actually upgrades Dow's Lake in time for the hospital, great, but I highly doubt that will happen (and if it does, not without yet another shut-down). They were ever too cheap to even widen the trench under the parking garage.

I do believe that Line 1/3, post Stage 2, if everything works as indented, will be a huge upgrade over the Transitway. The tunnel, even if it has issues due to the limited budget and poor construction, has resolved the Central Transitway issues (when the train works). And Stage 2 Trillium will likely be better than what we had previously (as long as travel times aren't slower). We just could have done far better with the budget for Line 2 by cutting mostly useless rural stations, doing double tracking instead of doubling platform lengths, doing a better job future proofing the Line.

Ultimately, the biggest issue with our system is the bus network. Anything taken off the old Transitways should have been reinvested in the local and urban bus network. I have noticed that a lot of criticism about the train actually comes down to that.

The City talks a big game about achieving density targets and improving transit when density comes, yet they build transit to rural and low density suburban areas while giving little to nothing to dense and densifying urban neighbourhoods.

As for "I want to emphasize again that "could have been much better" is still not the same as "made things worse", agreed. The O-Train overall, in particular Line 2, could have been much better however, the City has made the bus network much worse with it's "savings" from the train.
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  #3298  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2023, 1:05 PM
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Fuel, maintenance costs driving up price of running Trillium Line
Operating north-south rail line will cost $3.5M per month

Elyse Skura · CBC News
Posted: Sep 29, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago


OC Transpo expects to pay $3.5 million per month to operate the Trillium Line once the new extension of the north-south rail corridor is running again, according to an email to councillors obtained by CBC.

That includes $2.1 million the city will pay to TransitNext, the project-specific group run by SNC-Lavalin which was chosen to build and maintain it.

The projections come after an updated long-term financial plan for the transportation system suggested that runningthe Trillium and Confederation lines costs a lot more than OC Transpo expected.

That reality — combined with the prediction that ridership will not rebound to pre-pandemic levels until 2030 — prompted staff to suggest the city will need to consider increasing fares, expanding transit levies and delaying the Stage 3 expansion to Barrhaven, Kanata and Stittsville.

Staff mapped out exactly how much rail will cost once both the Trillium Line and Stage 2's east-west expansion are open.

They peg operating costs for 2027 at over $210 million: a $45 million increase from pre-pandemic projections.

"The increase in rail operating cost estimates are primarily due to higher support costs required based on Stage 1 experience," deputy treasurer Isabelle Jasmin told councillors last week.

That included the hiring of a litany of consultants to work on unexpected problems.

The $3.5 million monthly operating costs are a far cry from what the city spent on the line before its 2020 closure — but the system itself will look dramatically different.

In 2019, its last full year of service, operating costs totalled $8.5 million, or roughly $708,000 per month.

At that time, it consisted of eight kilometres of single-track rail servicing five stations and was operated by the city, instead of through a public-private partnership.

Stage 2 lengthens the line by 12 kilometres and adds a new four-kilometre line that links to the Ottawa International Airport.

Unlike the Confederation Line, Trillium trains run on diesel (and aren't technically light rail).

Jasmin noted the increase in diesel fuel cost, which also accounts for additional litres per kilometre needed for larger trains.

Troy Charter, the director of rail operations, emailed the new monthly projections to members of the light rail subcommittee on Monday, noting that maintenance costs are "highly variable" and operating costs include "staff, energy, and facility costs."

Similar maintenance payments to Rideau Transit Group, the consortium managing the Confederation Line, are $4 million to $5 million per month.

But if service needs laid out in the city's project agreement are not met, it makes deductions — and it has.

For instance, transit general manager Renée Amilcar said the city will refuse to pay any money for July when a bearing issue caused a system-wide shutdown.

"Ottawa has signed a public-private partnership and [with] those operational costs, the big question there is, are we getting value for money?" said Capital Coun. Shawn Menard, who requested the monthly data at a recent committee meeting.

"Certainly, I'd say on [the Confederation Line], we have not received value for the $4 to $5 million that we pay per month. And this is something that we need to look out for in the future."

Menard said he's hopeful that city staff now seem committed to providing more financial transparency, including month-by-month breakdowns of these operating costs.

Coun. Steve Desroches, who chairs the light rail subcommittee, said the projected monthly costs are "one piece of a bigger puzzle in terms of the cost of a transit system."

"I wasn't surprised that these capital and operating projects, especially large ones, are going through the same pressures that everyone is going through in terms of inflationary costs and high interest rates," he said.

But he said the long-term financial plan's overall shift toward being unaffordable is sobering: "a grim outlook" that is "not unique to the City of Ottawa."

As a councillor for suburban Riverside South-Findlay Creek, Desroches said he's noticed park-and-rides once "bursting at the seams" still aren't filling up.

Rebuilding trust will mean improving reliability, he said, but a larger plan to boost densification and increase housing near stations will go a long way to increasing ridership and combating the shift toward working from home.

The Trillium Line is expected to open by the end of the year — well over a year behind schedule. The light rail subcommittee will get an update on Friday about what still needs to happen before launch.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/trillium-line-ottawa-cost-opening-maintenance-fuel-1.6981142
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  #3299  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2023, 3:16 PM
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will come as no surprise to anyone on this forum, but:

Quote:
Trillium Line launch delayed until spring 2024

Josh Pringle
CTV News Ottawa Digital Multi-Skilled Journalist

Passengers will not be boarding the Trillium Line until the spring of 2024, as construction continues on the new north-south light-rail transit line between Bayview Station and Riverside South.

Transit Services general manager Renee Amilcar says based on the progress to date, a possible launch in November is no longer possible.

"In order to be as cautious and prudent as possible, we believe it's the public interest to target a handover from the contractor as soon as possible, but to plan for opening the system to the public in spring 2024," Amilcar told the light-rail transit subcommittee meeting on Friday.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/trillium-line-launch-delayed-until-spring-2024-1.6582971
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  #3300  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2023, 3:20 PM
pattherat pattherat is online now
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Originally Posted by Spoonsy View Post
will come as no surprise to anyone on this forum, but:


https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/trillium-line-launch-delayed-until-spring-2024-1.6582971
How are they so f’ing slow compared to the more complex east-west project?

Embarrassing.
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