Calgary International Airport II

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'm surprised YWG and YLW are still around, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're cut, but I think YQU/YMM will stay. EWR could be taken over by UA. I think if AC has to make more cuts we'll be down to YYZ/YUL/YVR/YEG/YMM/YQU/LHR.

Winnipeg is there to move the plane to Calgary more than the people. There is 1 Winnipeg flight a day and it has terrible timings, expect a very cheap flight.
That flight isn't at risk as long as the plane itself is still needed in Calgary.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Looking through the schedules, WS added a wack of capacity during December:

LIR - Increased to 5x weekly
VRA - Increased to 3x weekly
FLL - Increased to 4x weekly (This goes all the way to March)
KOA - Increased to 3x weekly
SEA - Increased to 1x daily

OGG saw some reductions, both in frequency and aircraft with some flights being downguaged to a 7M8.

There may even be more capacity to HNL then OGG this winter.

How much of the winter increases will be in response to Sunwing flights being absorbed into normal YYC WS operations?

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

It’s a pretty significant downgrade in the hard product between eurowings and AC even in Y.

I wonder how the elite FFs are going to respond as from my understanding YYC-FRA did good in the premium cabins?

I remember at peak a few years ago Lufthansa used to operate daily with the A330 with F, along with daily AC A330.
BA also operated 4 class 772s at one point before downgrading to the 763 if I’m not mistaken?

Why has all the premium demand dried up at YYC?

I’m only making a guess here, but from what I’ve seen business travel is way down and probably affects premium seats. Someone else might have actual numbers but that’s my observation.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

WG planes are not absorbed into normal YYC ops, they will do only sun and previous Swoop flying as long as they are configured Y189. SEA is Encore, that's unrelated. Hawaii is unrelated, really just leaves VRA as being a WG-related bump.

I’m not specifically referring to the added flights above. Eventually the sunwing brand will disappear. Will WS continue direct flights under their brand from many small airports in Canada or feed some of that traffic to their hub airports? I know they have to keep some of those flights (and add a few more) but that can’t be smart business practice. Otherwise WG would still be in business on their own

[hollywoodcory]

WK is increasing YYC-ZRH to 3x weekly, adding a Tuesday flight in S24

https://airwaysmag.com/edelweiss-expand-...6pIOZEcQe-3dWf_MtV-9IYw-tY1skya-4aVpLHCE

Great to see foreign carriers continue to add capacity even with the WS dominance.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

WK is increasing YYC-ZRH to 3x weekly, adding a Tuesday flight in S24

https://airwaysmag.com/edelweiss-expand-...6pIOZEcQe-3dWf_MtV-9IYw-tY1skya-4aVpLHCE

Great to see foreign carriers continue to add capacity even with the WS dominance.

The Swiss and Germans love our part of the world. Be great if we could get a flight into Munich as well

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by msmariner

The Swiss and Germans love our part of the world. Be great if we could get a flight into Munich as well

I wish some of those 12x weekly FRA flights could go to MUC instead.

Anyways I remember speculation that WK would leave YYC so it's great to see them first expand the season and then add a frequency

[JakeLRS]

Flair will pick up YYC-CUN 3x weekly starting in December

[YYCFlier]

Unfortunately WK and 4Y are leisure, not mainline airlines, so have crappy J cabins.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

Flair will pick up YYC-CUN 3x weekly starting in December

Figured this was coming. Flair is now scheduled for LAS/PHX/CUN and PVR this winter.

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Unfortunately WK and 4Y are leisure, not mainline airlines, so have crappy J cabins.

Leisure travel is where the demand for the area is right now. Tourism is booming.

I ain't denying that its a downgrade in service. I've even heard AC agents complaining about 4Y all summer, and are saying its only gonna get worse once they fully take over FRA.

There has been plenty of spec that WK was dropping YYC over the last year or so, so to see them extend the season and add an additional frequency is good (I think they've been 2x weekly since they started service).

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

I've even heard AC agents complaining about 4Y all summer, and are saying its only gonna get worse once they fully take over FRA.

What are the actual issues they're complaining about? I'm curious. I'm assuming 4Y is basically LH Rouge.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by LO 044

What are the actual issues they're complaining about? I'm curious. I'm assuming 4Y is basically LH Rouge.

I think they’re complaining because their airline is is abandoning the west so fast they know their jobs are slipping away.
With 4Y upping their flights to 12x weekly it’s quite apparent passengers have no problem with their product.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

A reminder that F8 has obliterated their winter domestic sked before anyone praises them for adding CUN.

Yikes they're not even doing daily YYZ...they're down a lot.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Leisure travel is where the demand for the area is right now. Tourism is booming.

True, but what's happening at YYC is a very YYC-specific thing.

Tourism is booming everywhere. AFAIK, only YYC is seeing this broad downgrading of air service.

Our biggest carrier, hubbed here, is intentionally downgrading all of their products as part of their new strategy. The country's biggest carrier (and only full-service mainstream carrier now) largely pulled out -- taking YYC from a small hub to a spoke. And on one of their dropped routes, they swapped out for a no-frills leisure carrier.

That's all a huge shift for YYC.

But it's not happening elsewhere. At the same time as Lufthansa Group decided to send their no-frills carrier here, they announced a bunch of new North America routes on their mainstream (LH and Swiss) brands. They decided that Raleigh NC was worthy of LH, but that YYC wasn't.

Catastrophic? No. We're still well served for a city of our size. Non-stop destinations are great. Even if we're now somehow seen as a leisure/no-frills market not worthy of mainstream, full service. Humbling.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

True, but what's happening at YYC is a very YYC-specific thing.

Tourism is booming everywhere. AFAIK, only YYC is seeing this broad downgrading of air service.

Our biggest carrier, hubbed here, is intentionally downgrading all of their products as part of their new strategy. The country's biggest carrier (and only full-service mainstream carrier now) largely pulled out -- taking YYC from a small hub to a spoke. And on one of their dropped routes, they swapped out for a no-frills leisure carrier.

That's all a huge shift for YYC.

But it's not happening elsewhere. At the same time as Lufthansa Group decided to send their no-frills carrier here, they announced a bunch of new North America routes on their mainstream (LH and Swiss) brands. They decided that Raleigh NC was worthy of LH, but that YYC wasn't.

Catastrophic? No. We're still well served for a city of our size. Non-stop destinations are great. Even if we're now somehow seen as a leisure/no-frills market not worthy of mainstream, full service. Humbling.

The sky is not falling. YYC lost one mainstream flight in the last 5 years and has gained many. WS is a huge upgrade from the former TS flights we had. We haven’t had LH in over 10 years and it’s been almost as long since BA left YYC. I’ve flown AC,WS and KLM to Europe in the past few years and back of the plane product we’re all similar and suitable for the average Joe. I honestly don’t care if we don’t have First class product. The J product is solid enough.
When we lost the AC FRA flight immediately Eurowings &Condor we’re there to pick the slack up.
I read that YVR-Zurich on AC is being dropped next summer. But looks like Edelweiss is picking it up. So it’s just not YYC in the west that is getting “downgraded”. It’s AC abandoning the west as a whole. So be happy you have an affordable option direct from YYC to many many different places in Europe. I sure am happy I don’t have to connect out east

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

they have a non-existent FF program

Their alternative FF program, Skymiles, isn't bad

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by msmariner

It’s AC abandoning the west as a whole.

AC is abandoning the west except YVR. Yes, they may cancel ZRH but they added SIN and BKK recently. Most of the TB and domestic YYC capacity just got moved to YVR for mainline.

[Tobuz]

In the past five years, YYC lost three large/mainstream/full service international carriers: BA, Hainan, and AeroMexico.

We haven’t lost many non-stop destinations, though. When a full service mainstream carrier has pulled out of a destination from YYC, the norm seems to be for it to be picked up by a lower end leisure carrier (Eurowings, Flair, the “new” 2023 version of WestJet).

Heck, based on the pace of changes in WestJet’s product, we may end up considering 2023 to be the year that YYC lost “good WestJet” as a carrier and got “new WestJet” in its place. A current thread in FlyerTalk says that their new standard seat pitch in Y will drop to 28”, which is horrifyingly bad.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

AC is abandoning the west except YVR.

They haven’t abandoned the west as much as they’ve consolidated from 4 hubs to 3.

AC had four hubs for many years: YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC. Then YYC lost it’s hub status, but retained a lot of “hub-like” flights — unlike any other non-hub. Sort of an unofficial mini-hub. Today, we’re not much more than a spoke for AC, largely the same as every other city (other than YYZ/YUL/YVR) anywhere else in Canada.

Fliers from the prairies still have the same destinations on AC, just connecting through a different (not YYC) Air Canada hub.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

AC is abandoning the west except YVR. Yes, they may cancel ZRH but they added SIN and BKK recently. Most of the TB and domestic YYC capacity just got moved to YVR for mainline.

YVR has those routes because of all the cancelled routes to China/HK. They certainly aren’t ahead of the game since 2019. If those routes came back and there still is a shortage of frames for AC something will be disappearing 🤔