PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by nemesisinphilly

...The current situation at the Bourse has been an abject failure. This space should be packed with tourists every day of the week. Instead they're down to what, like 6 or 7 food vendors? It's embarrassing honestly....

Such a shame. We were led to believe this was going to be similar to the Chelsea Market in NYC. It turned out to be a glorified food court.

So disappointing.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Such a shame. We were led to believe this was going to be similar to the Chelsea Market in NYC. It turned out to be a glorified food court.

So disappointing.

It's strange, we have lots of people walking in downtown but we don't have lots of people sticking around in these spots. Is it marketing failure, is the independence mall, is it the Philadelphia being represented poorly? It's strange that we don't have more foot traffic in that area.

I would like Philly to turn independence mall more into a park and reimagine the liberty bell attraction. Maybe that way we the Bourse can attract more tenants. Maybe throw a starbucks inside the Bourse to kickstart more foot traffic.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Such a shame. We were led to believe this was going to be similar to the Chelsea Market in NYC. It turned out to be a glorified food court.

So disappointing.

Funny you mention it but I was in there yesterday. It’s quite depressing. It was pretty dead at lunch time on a Tuesday. A few stores still have their pandemic closure signs up. Although the building is in great condition so hopefully it can be revived. It’s just in kind of a weird spot. I’m not sure how you could effectively drive independence mall tourists there.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

It's strange, we have lots of people walking in downtown but we don't have lots of people sticking around in these spots. Is it marketing failure, is the independence mall, is it the Philadelphia being represented poorly? It's strange that we don't have more foot traffic in that area.

I would like Philly to turn independence mall more into a park and reimagine the liberty bell attraction. Maybe that way we the Bourse can attract more tenants. Maybe throw a starbucks inside the Bourse to kickstart more foot traffic.

The whole concept of independence mall was a horrible lane use decision. But what’s done is done. We really need to change it from an empty lawn to something more vibrant.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

The whole concept of independence mall was a horrible lane use decision. But what’s done is done. We really need to change it from an empty lawn to something more vibrant.

Yeah they should give up the lawn that's for big events which it rarely ever hosts anyway. An annual music festival would be cool but I don't see National Parks service going for it. Landscape it with trees, benches, fountains, sculptures, bandshell and have constant programming like it's Dilworth or Love Park. Boston Commons or Bryant Park would be the goal.

As for The Bourse, I'm not sure why they can't get more tourists but they probably were expecting more lunch workers who never went back to the office. When you go to Europe you'll see lots of markets like it but they have bars and are open late. El Nacional Barcelona is a really cool one.

Sigh.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Funny you mention it but I was in there yesterday. It’s quite depressing. It was pretty dead at lunch time on a Tuesday. A few stores still have their pandemic closure signs up. Although the building is in great condition so hopefully it can be revived. It’s just in kind of a weird spot. I’m not sure how you could effectively drive independence mall tourists there.

The entrance is mid-block, directly across from a long wall separating the park from the street, and limited visibility from inside the park. A stunning building, cool concept, but not destined for success in that spot (especially post-Covid).
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.949669,-...6thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Everyone brought up great points. Most of the greenway is blah, a poorly executed concept from the start (it is what it is). But it could be so much more of a focal point today, instead of a rather barren pass-trough lawn. I guess any substantial changes must go through the National Parks Service? I wouldn't hold my breath if that is the case...

(Love that picture BroadandMarket posted, it also makes me sad).

[TonyTone]

What? You guys don't remember the historic battle on the lawn?

Er oh wait they tore down historic buildings for a lawn?

Amazing.

Philly knows how to do deal blows to it self very easily.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

What? You guys don't remember the historic battle on the lawn?

Er oh wait they tore down historic buildings for a lawn?

Amazing.

Philly knows how to do deal blows to it self very easily.

GroJLart described the scheme thusly a dozen years ago:

The vision for the Independence National Historical Grass Lot Collection was one of a weird Colonial-looking Philadelphia with lots of grass between small buildings. Gigantic stone and metal kick-ass looking 19th Century buildings interspersed between them would have ruined the effect, therefore they were destroyed, no matter their beauty or historical significance.

http://philaphilia.blogspot.com/2011/07/lost-building-of-week-july-13th.html

[summersm343]

12-13 floor building coming to 2112 Walnut Street:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20230815150421/2112-Walnut-St.pdf

[Jerryiz]

I have to say that I am not going to pile on to what has already been said. I think that is why people think of us (Philadelphians) the way they think of us. If we dont think that we are great then surely other people wont think we have a great city. There are things that can be done to improve and the opportunity will always be there. Someone mentioned the battle that took place in the area. I think it if were more of attraction " Olde Philadelphia style" with the dress and the garb and the atmosphere ,soldiers and re-enactments it would be a HUGE benefit to the area. There should be people dressed in period wear reading from scrolls on every other corner ! I always wonder why the city never made a bigger deal out of that. I mean I know they have the Revolutionary War Museum down there but there should be enactments all around that area based upon that! Just my two cents.. BTW. I love the Bourse Building, I just haven't been there in years!

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by summersm343

12-13 floor building coming to 2112 Walnut Street:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20230815150421/2112-Walnut-St.pdf

This concept is becoming more common it seems and on the surface, I like it. I would be concerned about this approach starting to dominate though as the charm of these large 19th century townhomes goes well beyond the façade.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

The entrance is mid-block, directly across from a long wall separating the park from the street, and limited visibility from inside the park.

Does anyone know the purpose of this wall? Is it just to close off the area during events? Tear that shit down.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by summersm343

12-13 floor building coming to 2112 Walnut Street:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20230815150421/2112-Walnut-St.pdf

I like this, and overbuilds can look sharp and sophisticated when done well. And it covers that huge blank wall from 2110 Walnut with a less obvious blank wall.

On the top of Walnut St. Any updates on 2204 Walnut? https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/r...al-stories-coming-to-22nd-walnut-street/

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Does anyone know the purpose of this wall? Is it just to close off the area during events? Tear that shit down.

Not sure how old the wall is, but likely part of that mid-century mentality of enclosing parks and segregating spaces, which obviously did not translate well in reality.

But yea, knock it down and put in some benches and trees. That alone is a huge improvement.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by PHL10

This concept is becoming more common it seems and on the surface, I like it. I would be concerned about this approach starting to dominate though as the charm of these large 19th century townhomes goes well beyond the façade.

Exactly. I'll go as far as to say that they should not be doing this at all. Keep, preserve, renovate, the old townhouse, and go find some other lot to build this on. There's more to these houses than just the facade, but that is all that is being preserved, making the street a Potemkin Village.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by summersm343

12-13 floor building coming to 2112 Walnut Street:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20230815150421/2112-Walnut-St.pdf

Interesting. I don’t immediately hate it and it brings more density to the neighborhood, which is always good. Interesting related fact I learned recently when on Redfin looking for a rowhome, the building on the East side of this project is one house. It’s not apartments or condos. It’s absolutely insane inside. From what I remember it’s also listed for like 7 or 8 million dollars.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by PHL10

This concept is becoming more common it seems and on the surface, I like it. I would be concerned about this approach starting to dominate though as the charm of these large 19th century townhomes goes well beyond the façade.

As mentioned in the staff recommendation, it's very unlikely to see this approved imo. The other one was worked into a vacant lot. I personally like these projects even with the loss of the interior, but the historic commission is pretty strict. I don't see it happening.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by summersm343

12-13 floor building coming to 2112 Walnut Street:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20230815150421/2112-Walnut-St.pdf

I like it

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Jerryiz

I have to say that I am not going to pile on to what has already been said. I think that is why people think of us (Philadelphians) the way they think of us. If we dont think that we are great then surely other people wont think we have a great city. There are things that can be done to improve and the opportunity will always be there. Someone mentioned the battle that took place in the area. I think it if were more of attraction " Olde Philadelphia style" with the dress and the garb and the atmosphere ,soldiers and re-enactments it would be a HUGE benefit to the area. There should be people dressed in period wear reading from scrolls on every other corner ! I always wonder why the city never made a bigger deal out of that. I mean I know they have the Revolutionary War Museum down there but there should be enactments all around that area based upon that! Just my two cents.. BTW. I love the Bourse Building, I just haven't been there in years!

I was being sarcastic no battle took place on that lawn, there were historic buildings in place before they destroyed them for a "historic lawn".

There's nothing that can replace the history or historic century old buildings that were there before and truly something that was worthy of tours, and stories.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Does anyone know the purpose of this wall? Is it just to close off the area during events? Tear that shit down.

The entire national park is a scam perpetrated by "Big Brick Wall."

It's not just Independence Mall that is surrounded by Brick walls either. The blocks between chestnut and walnut and 3rd and 5th are basically entirely bounded by either Brick walls or vacant historic homes that the park service doesn't have the staff to allow visitors to enter them.

The whole historic area is a tragic disaster of urban planning of nearly unparalleled nature.