Canadian cities that should have been bigger than they actually are?

[MolsonExport]

Inspired from the analogous thread on American cities in the City Discussions forum.

Which Canadian cities do you think should have become bigger than they actually are, currently?

For me, the three that come to mind are:

1) Winnipeg (of course). Expected to be the Chicago of Canada, the gateway to the West, etc. Was the fourth largest metro in Canada until the mid to late 1970s.
2) Saint John, New Brunswick. The first incorporated city in what is now Canada.
3) Quebec City. One of the oldest European settlements in North America. Until the late 18th century Québec was the most populous city in present-day Canada. Still third largest as of 1901.

[Taeolas]

I'd put Halifax on the list. IMO, The WWII Explosion stunted its growth at a prime growth period, and basically held it back from becoming Canada's Boston.

[KnoxfordGuy]

These cities pop up for me:

Winnipeg should have been bigger. It was the Panama Canal that kinda killed the momentum yes?

It was just never in the cards for Saint John. It was super important to the empire up until the mid 19th century and then it was left behind. A blend of issues. A small hinterland for its port along with confederation, making Montreal and Toronto the new powerhouses of a much bigger country. A heavy reliance on a ship building industry that shifted from timber to steel. It would have been more steady had it been the capital but Fredericton finished that idea in 1785. Can't blame the 1877 fire. 100s of cities had fires and still succeeded.

Halifax should be way bigger. It is now finally pulling away from its Atlantic Canada counterparts in growth and vibe. It will be the defacto big city on the east coast for decades to come. Would it have been even bigger today had the Halifax explosion not happend? 2,000 people killed in a city of 50,000. Not to mention the housing and infrastructure.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

Halifax should be way bigger. It is now finally pulling away from its Atlantic Canada counterparts in growth and vibe. It will be the defacto big city on the east coast for decades to come. Would it have been even bigger today had the Halifax explosion not happend? 2,000 people killed in a city of 50,000. Not to mention the housing and infrastructure.

It's often cited, but confederation itself slowed growth in NS, shifting economic importance toward central Canada, and dramatically slowing trade with the New England states.

The 1910-1920 period was a boomtime in Halifax, however---a 20th-century port city during wartime was like that. But the explosion just ended it. The city mostly sat out the post-war roaring '20s.

There's definitely a very plausible alternate universe in which Halifax is a million-plus city today, with a larger extent of 19th-century neighbourhoods, and more inheritance from the inter-war period as well.

[LuluBobo]

Winnipeg is the obvious example. It should realistically be a metro with a 2025 population of ~1.5 to 2.0 million serving a much larger agricultural region (province at ~2.5 to 3.0 million). Lots worked against it, from WW I ending the immigration boom, to the Panama Canal, to the Depression and WW II, to just general economic stagnation.

In the same respect, both Regina and Saskatoon should be larger centres. Not Winnipeg big, but each around 500-600k. And supporting a much larger agricultural region too.

For smaller centres, Prince Albert should be larger. Gateway to the north, last city on the North Sask River, huge Indigenous connection, and just general attachment to the recreation lakes.


I get "why" Victoria isn't larger, but for such an old, wealthy, and pretty city in the best climate in the country, it still stands out.

[Coldrsx]

Lethbridge, Leduc, Red Deer for Alberta.

In Ontario I am continued to surprised by London's size.

[giallo]

Kamloops and Prince Rupert in BC. Both were set up to be the regional hubs.

Kamloops has the railway, Hwy 1 and was gifted some crown corporations like the BC Lottery, but Kelowna pulled away in the new millennium, and that's that.

Prince Rupert was to be the biggish city in Northern BC, and has the bones to prove it, but it just never took off after WW2. I blame its relative stagnation on there being no quick way to get there by car or rail. As the crow flies, it's only 700km from Vancouver, but it takes over sixteen hours to drive there. BC has no north/south Pacific highway system.

[zoomer]

Saint John for me, although perhaps I'm thinking in term of cities I wish were bigger.

In that light if I could narrow it down to three, I'll throw in Nanaimo, and it has recent strong growth. Finally - Winnipeg. We need a big urban city between Alberta and Ontario and it has the foundation in place.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Definitely Melville, Saskatchewan.

______________________________


As for Saint John getting bigger (literally), I recently made a thread on that very topic over on the Atlantic Canada forum.

I think Saint John should have been amalgamated decades ago, yet, it's still quite a controversial subject here in the "Saint John Region".

I still think Saint John, NB struggles with being in the shadow of the extremely similarly named St. John's, NL.

Had the city gone with a distinct name like "New Cork" when it went through all the hassle and expensive of a name change, I think the city would have a lot more recognition at the moment, and probably even have a larger population. Instead, the city went through all the expense and hassle of "changing" its name from St. John to Saint John. lol

I still think there's a chance for a name change of sorts through amalgamation, which wouldn't wipe Saint John's name off the map, or the bedroom communities for that matter, but Regional Municipality as a whole would be given a new name:



Wolastoq, being the Maliseet name for the Saint John River.

[harls]

Brandon, MB should have been bigger.

I am sure Winkler-Morden is going to pass it to become the second most populous place in Manitoba soon.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I'll add Windsor, Ontario. I've still only seen it from Detroit, but I'll be sure to actually visit it sooner than later. It would be cool having two cities of similar size on each side of the Detroit River.

Plus, Windsor has the mildest winter weather in Canada outside of BC's lower mainland, which has got to be a plus for population growth.

Originally Posted by harls

Brandon, MB should have been bigger.

I am sure Winkler-Morden is going to pass it to become the second most populous place in Manitoba soon.

Like actually? Wowza. Hard to think of Brandon ever being surpassed as the #2 city. Let's go Brandon!

[harls]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Like actually? Wowza. Hard to think of Brandon ever being surpassed as the #2 city. Let's go Brandon!

I drove through Winkler in August on my way back out east...lots of crazy development.

Being closer to Winnipeg surely helps. Same thing happening to Steinbach on a lesser scale.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

There's definitely a very plausible alternate universe in which Halifax is a million-plus city today, with a larger extent of 19th-century neighbourhoods, and more inheritance from the inter-war period as well.

There are a bunch of what-ifs, but I think the explosion caused very significant damage at a critical period.

Aside from the deaths, many were injured and disabled. 1,000 people were permanently blinded for example. 9,000 were injured in total.

The city was generally pretty prosperous in the 1910's and there was a lot of industry destroyed by the explosion. Actually I think the top 2 employers were the Acadia Sugar Refinery and the Robie St cotton mill. Both had operated since the 1800's and were completely destroyed. The Oland brewery was destroyed, Clayton and Sons was heavily damaged, etc.

Sugar refinery in 1880:


Source

Here's Clayton and Sons, which I believe was repaired but heavily damaged:


Source

Back in those days, these were some of the largest manufacturing operations of their kind in Canada.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Saint John for me, although perhaps I'm thinking in term of cities I wish were bigger.

In that light if I could narrow it down to three, I'll throw in Nanaimo, and it has recent strong growth. Finally - Winnipeg. We need a big urban city between Alberta and Ontario and it has the foundation in place.

Yeah I think a lot of this comes down to the difference between "wish was bigger" vs "should have been bigger". For me, should have been bigger is mostly based on historical bigness that got interrupted by something. Generally places that have more and/or grander historic buildings than one would expect for a place of their current size. Most of those have already been mentioned, but I'll also include Montreal in that category. I read somewhere that in the mid 20th century civic leaders expected the metro area to be in the 7-8 million range by the new millennium.

In the "wish were larger" category, I'd include in tier 1 the cities I wish were in the 250-500k range: Churchill, Sydney, Gander, Collingwood, and Sept-Iles. In tier 2 which I wish were in the 500k - 1 million range would be Whitehorse, Yellowknife, and Prince George. Mostly because I feel like the country would be more interesting if there were additional populated regions rather than most notable cities being near the border. Well, except for Collingwood which I just think would make for a cool resort city.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Originally Posted by harls

I drove through Winkler in August on my way back out east...lots of crazy development.

Being closer to Winnipeg surely helps. Same thing happening to Steinbach on a lesser scale.

I think Brandon is safely in second place for quite a while yet. Brandon currently has about 58k, Steinbach is at about 21K and Winkler 15k.

If you consider regional population, Steinbach and area is actually not that far behind Brandon.

Brandon and the surrounding rural municipality (Cornwallis) are at about 62K. Steinbach sits on the borders of three municipalities (Hanover, La Broquerie and Ste Anne) and together they are at about 55k right now. All growing quite quickly too.

Morden-Winkler-Stanley is a ways back at about 36k.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by harls

Brandon, MB should have been bigger.

I am sure Winkler-Morden is going to pass it to become the second most populous place in Manitoba soon.

One of Brandon's pioneers, J W Horne, was an extremely ambitious real estate promoter. An 1889 publication explains: “Mr. Horne entered into an agreement with the railway company by which he was given a certain quantity of land at a fixed price, and on his erecting business buildings he was to have a rebate. He at once opened an office, or rather erected a tent on the prairie, divided his land into lots, opened and graded streets and when this preliminary work was accomplished began the erection of buildings.” He persuaded the government land agent to set up his office here, and then to get a post office, and thus the city of Brandon was established."

But as the railway moved westwards, Mr Horne moved with it, and arrived in Vancouver (another CP creation) in 1886, buying up a lot of land and developing a series of early commercial buildings. Several 'Horne Block' buildings still survive today.

He was one of a number of Vancouver successful developers and pioneer businessmen who came from the east (generally Ontario), in the 1880s and 1890s, paused for a while in Brandon and then made their fortunes in Vancouver. Maybe Brandon would have grown faster, if they'd stayed?

Founded in 1881, Brandon went from 3,778 people in the 1891 census to 13,839 in 1911. Vancouver was founded (on the settlement of Granville with around 1,000 residents) in 1886, had grown to 13,709 in 1891, and reached 100,401 in 1911.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Most of those have already been mentioned, but I'll also include Montreal in that category. I read somewhere that in the mid 20th century civic leaders expected the metro area to be in the 7-8 million range by the new millennium.

The Montreal story is interesting. On the one hand, it was definitely affected by separatism and regulations to some extent. On the other, it was already basically neck-and-neck with Toronto going back to even 1950, so there was an obvious alternative for industrial operations, HQs, and immigration.

[Wigs]

For me, Saint John, Winnipeg, Regina (Saskatoon is leaving it in the dust), Kamloops as well. I believe Québec City is right sized as Montréal not unlike Toronto for Ontario sucked up so many people in the province. It's hard to get a full monolingual Francophone city to be somewhere the size between say Calgary and Vancouver, in a country where only 1/5 or so have a useable everyday level of French.

Both Winnipeg and Québec will be added to the 1M Metro club in the near future.

[Rico Rommheim]

Having just read a couple of books about the Canadian Pacific railway, it seems that both Brandon and Regina were poised to become large cities. Their founders saw them become metropolis rivalling cities out east. Regina seems to have particularly failed to reach its expectations.

[Wigs]

If you look at old photos of Brandon it was so much livelier and you could just imagine the potential of the area. Sad to see what it currently looks like.