Downtown Vancouver Alleys

[ozonemania]

I'm pretty sure the state of downtown's alleyways have been discussed elsewhere, just couldn't find it.

I found this following article quite interesting and rekindled some of the enthusiasm I had over what we can do with downtown's alleys.

Would be such a great move to get rid of the alleyway bins, and replace it with another layer of urban density. There's a recent restoration done in Gastown I think that is sort of neat. I'm not talking about Blood Alley, but that's another one for sure.

Anyway, here's the article. About letting cafes set up shop. If SF can do it, if Seattle can do it, we should be able to do it too, in some areas.

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...come-a-reality

Enjoying a cappuccino in an alley might become a reality
Competition in Seattle could have them implemented there

Jim Goddard

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - It could happen here. The City of Seattle is looking at allowing cafes to set up in urban alleys and folks we chatted with would like to see them too. A design competition in Seattle would see nice little bistros set up in an alley in Pioneer Square and there's talk of expanding the idea throughout the city.

News1130 hit the streets to see what you thought and people we talked in Yaletown believe the alleys there and in Gastown would make a delightful place to gather over coffee, especially on a nice day. This woman agrees. "Yeah, absolutely, why not? Do you think it would make Vancouver a friendlier place? I would say so. It's a pretty friendly city as it is but that would add to it, absolutely."

People in Seattle say they love the idea and think it would make the city more vibrant, which would in turn attract more tourists, especially with summer on the horizon. In San Francisco, Maiden Lane off of Union Square allows delivery trucks in the morning but is packed with cafe's during the day and evenings.

Charles Gauthier from the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association says the idea could work here. He points out though, the city would have to get rid of all the dumpsters that dominate our alleys. "A couple of individual businesses have gotten rid of their dumpsters and have replaced them with totes that are picked up when required."

Gauthier adds alley way cafes would give the city a new source of revenue because businesses have to pay for city property they use, like sidewalks. He says getting rid of dumpsters could also allow parking in alleys the city could charge for.

Walt Judas with Tourism Vancouver says they would welcome the idea. "During the Games when Granville Street and Robson Street closed to vehicle traffic it created a terrific atmosphere that pedestrians enjoy. So, converting alley's may have a similar impact." Judas adds the downtown core could be suited to this if the right conditions are met.

On a similar note, I can't help but imagine places like Pidgeon Park and some areas along Carrall St. as nice sites for streetside bistros/cafes.

What other interesting and innovating things should we be looking at wrt our downtown alleys? Laneway condos? lol

[trofirhen]

In many European cities, what were once alleys, replete with open sewage, have become chic little streets with cafés, boutiques, and, quite often, prestigious, discreet addresses.

While not all alleys in Vancouver lend themselves to this type of transformation, some do. The removal of telephone poles, the cobbling of the street surfaces, and the use of back doors, combined with no-traffic zones on some alleyways could add a charming, European touch to the city.

Some wider spots might even be suitable for transformation into terraces.
What was done years ago in small parts of Gastown could be done elsewhere.

Hey, if Seattle is doing it, let's not get left behind! ! Cappucino, anybody?

[delboy]

interesting idea. Blood alley is already staring this trend. the redo of galoers mews backs directly onto the alley and store fronts look out on to it as well. Salt lick and Judas Goat are trend setters in putting restaurants in the alley. Lots more potential but still a little too edgy for my liking.

The smell of urine and the sight of cracker jacks shooting up puts me off going down there. I'd rather see a focus on fixing the main streets first before we look at beautifying the alleys.

[mcminsen]

Sublime decrepitude. There's a ton of character in a lot of alleys. Clean them up a bit (not too much) and I think you've got an antidote to the too clean, too new and perfect and over designed streets. I think we really need to salvage the last bits of genuine character that might be left, wherever it might be.

For example, I think it would be neat if the Penthouse Cabaret could get something like "Character Heritage" status. If and when it gets torn down will be a sad day.

This is a pic of what you see when you go out the alley door of Army & Navy, just a little to the east.


Dec.24 '09 my pic

[Delirium]

there's definitely potential to do something with our alleys especially in Gastown. no need to look to Europe on this one. i was blown away by what Melbourne has done with their alleys. it's just so cool!

here's a website that describes each alley with pictures. Melbourne actually uses its alleys as part of their tourism.
http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/melb...ls.php?id=9408


http://travellingworm.wordpress.com/...-of-melbourne/

http://travellingworm.wordpress.com/...-of-melbourne/

unfortunately, Vancouver hasn't reached a level of sophistication (or maturity) that it could do this all night but during the day there's no reason we couldn't. isn't it time we take back our city from the urinating, shooting up folk?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Delirium

there's definitely potential to do something with our alleys especially in Gastown. no need to look to Europe on this one. i was blown away by what Melbourne has done with their alleys. it's just so cool!
......................
unfortunately, Vancouver hasn't reached a level of sophistication (or maturity) that it could do this all night but during the day there's no reason we couldn't. isn't it time we take back our city from the urinating, shooting up folk?

Excellent points. Melbourne is twice the size of Vancouver, and a city needs to reach that size and critical mass before something like this can be done on a larger scale. But yes!! It's time we reclaimed our urban heritage from the addicts. This has already started in Gastown, but it needs to be done on a wider scale. I've never been to Melbourne. I hear it's one cool town.

[whatnext]

There's that large alley way off Smithe between Beatty and Cambie (behind Dix) that was supposed to get this kind of treatment years ago. I wonder why that never happened.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?oe=utf-8&...ed=0CAcQnwIwAA

[delboy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

There's that large alley way off Smithe between Beatty and Cambie (behind Dix) that was supposed to get this kind of treatment years ago. I wonder why that never happened.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?oe=utf-8&...ed=0CAcQnwIwAA

could be interesting and no crackerjacks to worry about! I've still yet to try that place.

I don't think there enough impetus to transform the alleys yet, there is many other areas of the city that need focus first. As one of the previous posters noted, the city just hasn't reached critical mass to necessitate the alleys being transformed, blood alley may, but a couple of issues are the underground parkade entry off the alley (next to Judas goat) and the fountain hotel. Could be neat though.

more shots of melbourne's laneways

http://forum.melbournephotos.net.au/...49615f1548b1c6

[Yume-sama]

Takes a lot of guts to be a patron of any establishment that looks like *that*.

Hepatitis in your coffee? More likely than you think!

[flight_from_kamakura]

this is a great idea. sf has a good number of these sorts of alleys, just off the top of my head, in the financial district:
- trinity street (a couple cafes)
- claude lane (a few restaurants)
- halfleck street (nice promenade with cafes, etc)
- maiden lane (famous for clubs and upscale shopping)
- harlan place (irish bank has basically colonised this baby)
- belden lane (very famous little restaurant row)

and then in chinatown there are at least a dozen more, including one housing the "home" of the fortune cookie, for whatever dubious distinction that earns the place. the thing in sf though is that they've always been used, so it's not like they're being re-purposed. that said, melbourne's arcades ought definitely to be what vancouver shoots for.

[trofirhen]

It seems that a city has to reach a certain size and critical mass to do a wide-scale "gentrification" project on their alleys.

Both Melbourne and San Francisco are much larger, and busier, than Vancouver, with more money and more culture.

But we got off to a start with that little corner of Gastown, and I am sure there are several other alleys in the city, in other parts of downtown (away from Needle Park) which would lend thmselves to this kind of treatment.

At least the idea has entered mainstream thinking, and that is the first major step.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

It seems that a city has to reach a certain size and critical mass to do a wide-scale "gentrification" project on their alleys.

Both Melbourne and San Francisco are much larger, and busier, than Vancouver, with more money and more culture.

But we got off to a start with that little corner of Gastown, and I am sure there are several other alleys in the city, in other parts of downtown (away from Needle Park) which would lend thmselves to this kind of treatment.

At least the idea has entered mainstream thinking, and that is the first major step.

you are right. the city isn't in dire need of space to create more stores, bars etc and personally I'd rather see areas like the dtes get focused on first. It doesn't seem to make sense to foucus on the lanes when many of the main streets are in a terrible state.

One or two laneways, however, such as blood alley and a couple of others around the area could be done to create some urban depth.

I thought there was supposed to be a push to remove dumpsters from laneways as part of a crime reduction initiative ?? As this been shelved?

[racc]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

It seems that a city has to reach a certain size and critical mass to do a wide-scale "gentrification" project on their alleys.

Both Melbourne and San Francisco are much larger, and busier, than Vancouver, with more money and more culture.

Not really, this has been done in Victoria in a couple of alleys.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by racc

Not really, this has been done in Victoria in a couple of alleys.

Hey, good point! But weren't those alleys right in the heart of the city; in the "touristy" area? I remember several charming old brick buildings there that had been converted to "period" shopping malls with central courtyards.

Anyway, if Victoria can do it, then it stands to reason that Vancouver can, too, although we don't have as many historic brick buildings (except in Gastown and DTES) which lend themselves to this type of conversion.
Maybe we should scout them out. You never know; they may be a neighbourhood ripe for gentrification, probably down East Cordova, East Hastings way.

But in addition, there are probably several downtown laneways that could be converted too.

[ozonemania]

I don't think we need to be looking at gentrifying all the alleys in the downtown core to get this initiative going.

What needs to be done is just change the zoning/bylaws to allow for such things to come to fruition in the first place.

This doesn't necessarily require big developers to get it going. This can be smaller scale enterprise, initiatives that can grow organically instead of being meticulously planned like so many other things are here. This doesn't have to be a resource hog that would take away from development in the DTES. I think this would work synergistically with the DTES gentrification initiatives very well, for example.

Putting in the groundwork can also mean that this concept that can be incorporated into future developments (i.e. density credits).

I'm also curious about where the alley bins issue is right now with the CoV. It's probably been a few years since this idea was part of any discussion. Did it just die? I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by ozonemania

I don't think we need to be looking at gentrifying all the alleys in the downtown core to get this initiative going.

What needs to be done is just change the zoning/bylaws to allow for such things to come to fruition in the first place.

This doesn't necessarily require big developers to get it going. This can be smaller scale enterprise, initiatives that can grow organically instead of being meticulously planned like so many other things are here. This doesn't have to be a resource hog that would take away from development in the DTES. I think this would work synergistically with the DTES gentrification initiatives very well, for example.

Putting in the groundwork can also mean that this concept that can be incorporated into future developments (i.e. density credits).

I'm also curious about where the alley bins issue is right now with the CoV. It's probably been a few years since this idea was part of any discussion. Did it just die? I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

I agree with the organic notion of allowing things to find their own way, something that is seriously lacking in this city.

[SpongeG]

the one alley i can think of is the one off cordova near cambie - where salgamundi west (the store) is - its already used by pedestrians a lot and its got some stores that you can walk into it from at the west entrance anyway...

also maybe teh alley beside chapters on robson - there is that park halfway down that backs onto the alley... also a good candidate

[Spoolmak]

If Seattle can do it...
Think of the amount of people who live downtown Vancouver compared to the amount of people that live downtown Seattle

[s211]

Originally Posted by Spoolmak

If Seattle can do it...
Think of the amount of people who live downtown Vancouver compared to the amount of people that live downtown Seattle

Population has less to do with it than political will. IIRC, Seattle got rid of the monstro garbage bins, which went a long way to get the ball rolling.

Vancouver, on the other hand, thought about the bin issue and eventually it got shot down by poverty advocates.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by s211

Population has less to do with it than political will. IIRC, Seattle got rid of the monstro garbage bins, which went a long way to get the ball rolling.

Vancouver, on the other hand, thought about the bin issue and eventually it got shot down by poverty advocates.

Can't these advocates see that they are always perpetuating the issues? Where is there any dignity in allowing the poor to crawl through dumpsters, not to mention the numerous health issues associated with it. As far as looking for bottles, I'm sure many businesses could be encouraged to put them aside or in recyling containers.

I believe that dumpsters are not the way of the future and I'm sure their days will be numbered.