DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[Cirrus]

Developments' square footage is not determined by what will look "very cool." Hines didn't design this to look stubby because they hate tall skyscrapers. They designed it to fit 640,000 square feet onto the property they own in the most efficient way. The height is simply a formula of the desired overall square footage and the lot area available.

You're asking for a 37% increase in the square footage of the building. If the developer thought they could fill a 37% larger building, and it were legal to build, and if the banks agreed to finance it, then that's what they'd have proposed.

[blm3034L!fe]

Double post

[blm3034L!fe]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

I had to look at the preliminary rendering a few days to figure out why the design made me feel uneasy.

The building has no grace. The building comes across as bulbous. There are numerous examples of this style being built today that certainly are superior.

What is the quandary? Simply, that the Y axis divided into the X (width from the southeast to the northwest) makes the thing look squat.

Remedy? Use the same maximization of usable square footage per story, keep the design, but make the building about 10 to 15 (very cool) stories taller. Stretch out the angled surfaces over the extra height, and, the building would make favorable comments all over the damned internet.

Make it taller, fellas, if you want to sell this to prospective clients next year who arrive by train directly from DIA. These guys KNOW what the rest of the world is doing.

Sell the idea to THEM.

I completely agree with this.

The location is prime for something this City hasn't seen in decades. An actual skyscraper! You had mentioned less girth to compensate and provide more height.

Which in my honest opinion, would be mute appealing to nut only investors but potential tenants.

"IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME!"

For potential investors and tenants arriving via DIA and taking the new rail line from DIA into downtown. Seeing that tier from a distance would make one hell of an impact.

At this current design and height, you won't be able to see the tower until you arrive at Union Station. The proximity to US is a bonus but first impressions and the awe factor is what closes deals!!!

Just my $0.02 on it. Im still a bit sceptical if this will even see the light of day. But if they do it right and really consider the risk of going BIG. I have zero doubt that the reward will be well worth it in the end...

[denconyny]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

(Have you just been waiting around for the right opportunity to photoshop a bowl on to a building?) :p

Actually, this is just Microsoft Paint. Even though Photoshop is a great program, it can get way to complicated for me for something simple such as this.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This is what legal marijuana is doing to Denver, we're getting dumber by the day.

Oh, okay.... ouch.... or maybe touché?

I have to say though, since the money from legal pot is going to be funding education, we'll have to check back in a couple of years or so to see if there really is a dumbup of the Colorado population. I think that my guess is as good as anyone's that at least the kids, with more education funding, should be smarter..... but will throwing lots of dollars at this actually work? And if not, maybe some adderall funding would be better?

Originally Posted by Octavian

From DIA Facebook:

This hotel needed to be all white. They needed to pay Calatrava et el a few more million or something and made sure that the hotel coordinated with the terminal, or go to court with him.... or anything to have gotten that done. I don't know how someone can patent a color? And with with airport working with some $500 million budget, and his project was some $650 million, there surely could have been something that could have been done to keep this hotel white. Now, courtesy of Westword, instead we get schlock......

Now, since this is the Denver development thread...... I have to agree with maybe a good number here that for the most part DT Denver architecture is somewhat on the blasé side, but even that is so much better than the still way-to-many surface parking lots that abound DT and surroundings.

The only things that would really that I would find exceptional here are

1) any building that would go over 1000 feet, or

2) the last version of the Bell Tower.....


(courtesy Westword)

I think that is cool architecture, and I would think that there certainly are enough pot smoking multi-billionaires in the world now that Buzz Geller can sell these units to so that these multi-billionaires can visit Denver and be legal with their recreation. At any rate, Denver needs a lot more of these imaginative types (or even one for the time being) of buildings.

And then also

3) I still think that the City of Denver is missing an economic opportunity now, and going into the future, in not making the most of this unique situation of being the first place, in the world really, of having marijuana legal to anyone over 21 for recreational use. I'd love to see the city promote much, much, more, and even designate a marijuana district, with a Bong Building or such right in the center of this district, and then some more cool buildings developed around this as well. I see so much potential in such a development. But... of course, even my heavy-duty pothead friends don't agree with me on this.... they don't see any need for the City of Denver to get involved in any way..... and they think the free market here is doing just fine with this....... But I just can't help this overwhelming sense that an economic payoff for generations is being neglected here.

And finally, per Bill Maher.... Colorado is now like #42 Jackie Robinson.... except that we're #420....... and below is a link to Bill Maher's New Rules about the Colorado marijuana situation.

http://www.whosay.com/status/BillMaher/923898?wsref=tw&code=yFI8zkA

All the best to everyone.....

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Glass midrises are nice and all, but as a resident of a city with two Skyhouses and a third under construction (Tampa), I'm not exactly thrilled with their cookie cutter designs. It's better than no development, but I've become annoyed that Novarre doesn't even try to distinguish their structures. I view them as the double wide manufacturer of the vertical residential developers. As long as they only build one in Denver, it won't be too bad.

Yep, here in Atlanta we also have two with a third under construction, and we refer to them as "sky trailer." The buildings aren't bad; the main problem is the detached parking garage. Notice they try to hide it in the renderings.
This is what the first Atlanta one looks like:

Like a big old parking turd dropped on the landscape, with some tiny soul-less retail spaces.

And here's what the second one looks like:

Some brick lipstick on a parking pig.

[bunt_q]

Those are pretty terrible, yeesh. If that's what we get at 18th and Lincoln, I might just have to reevaluate whether I think it's worth it.

[RyanD]

I don't understand why they can't podium the building. I would be fine with a 4-5 story podium versus a detached garage wasting a great deal of land. It also seems like having a detached building would add hassle and maintenance.

Here's the huge rendering from DenverInfill. You can see the garage in it and ours doesn't look TOO bad. But that can change, I know I know.

[pablosan]

Yup. This structure should be on a podium. With that said, the CBD needs about 20 more residential structures to create a more active street scene, throughout the CBD.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by pablosan

Yup. This structure should be on a podium. With that said, the CBD needs about 20 more residential structures to create a more active street scene, throughout the CBD.

Hypothetically, I always wonder if there is demand for 20 residential structures like this. Assuming 500 people are going to live in this building, could Denver support another 20 of them : 10,000 people living in the CBD. How much would that move the needle on other sectors: retail, services, restaurants, etc..

The average economic stimulus that each resident brings to the city is $50k.. By that estimate, 10,000 new residents would bring $500M in economic activity to Denver.

It would be a whole new ball game if that happens.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Hypothetically, I always wonder if there is demand for 20 residential structures like this. Assuming 500 people are going to live in this building, could Denver support another 20 of them : 10,000 people living in the CBD. How much would that move the needle on other sectors: retail, services, restaurants, etc..

I can't imagine that there will be a lot of demand in the CBD in general. I mean there are several successful buildings there (Spire, 1600 Glenarm, Bank Lofts, etc..) but charging a premium to the CBD is going to be tough. I think much of the success has been for lack of better options. It's kind of a tough part of the city to live in. No grocery stores anywhere close, and the new stores behind Union Station still require a rather lengthy mall ride. No parks anywhere nearby (Benedict Fountain is sort of close, but it's a chore to get to, same with Civic Center). You'd somehow have to break the hold on the lunch-only retail that dominates the area.

I think the best hope to populate the CBD is to populate Arapahoe Square first. To do that the city needs to actually invest the area. Starting with a public..uhm..square. Give something builders to galvanize around.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by enjo13

I can't imagine that there will be a lot of demand in the CBD in general.

I think if people are willing to live in some of the places we're building apartments these days (3500 Rockmount?) they'd live in the CBD too. But I agree, Arapahoe Square first. But more because of land prices than demand.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I think if people are willing to live in some of the places we're building apartments these days (3500 Rockmount?) they'd live in the CBD too. But I agree, Arapahoe Square first. But more because of land prices than demand.

I guess I meant "Unwilling to live in the CBD at the price premiums new buildings are going to want".

[bunt_q]

I'm not sure that's true either. There's a pretty big margin right now. And there's a premium everywhere, even less desirable locations. I think it'll be tighter to build in CBD and rent at Prospect prices, but I think it's doable, or close. Besides, there's not a lot of CBD that can't be cleverly marketed as Uptown, LoDo, or Ballpark, and 14th is already desirable. Pretty small area in the middle there.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by denconyny

Actually, this is just Microsoft Paint. Even though Photoshop is a great program, it can get way to complicated for me for something simple such as this.

I was just using the word photoshop as a verb - like one would use the “verb” google.

Anyway, I like weed as much as the next guy, but I don’t like what has happened to denver’s reputation since the new law passed. That’s why the whole idea of some sort of pot industry headquarters/building makes me cringe.

I can’t wait until all of this pot brouhaha passes. It’s ridiculous. It seems like every freaking time I see or hear Denver or Colorado mentioned in the media, there has to be some sort of pot pun involved. And every time I tell somebody I’m from Denver, I get stuck in the same obligatory conversation about legalization. It’s getting to the point where I don’t like to tell people I’m from there because I don’t want to keep having the same conversation about marijuana legalization over and over again.

It used to be, when people thought of Denver, they thought of skiing. Now they think of pot. That’s not good.

Anyway, that’s why your “photoshoped” bong-building thingy made me cry.

[bunt_q]

Even Tasha Yar at the Star Trek TNG reunion at comic con this past weekend made a snide little "rocky mountain HIGH" joke.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

I was just using the word photoshop as a verb - like one would use the “verb” google.

Anyway, I like weed as much as the next guy, but I don’t like what has happened to denver’s reputation since the new law passed. That’s why the whole idea of some sort of pot industry headquarters/building makes me cringe.

I can’t wait until all of this pot brouhaha passes. It’s ridiculous. It seems like every freaking time I see or hear Denver or Colorado mentioned in the media, there has to be some sort of pot pun involved. And every time I tell somebody I’m from Denver, I get stuck in the same obligatory conversation about legalization. It’s getting to the point where I don’t like to tell people I’m from there because I don’t want to keep having the same conversation about marijuana legalization over and over again.

It used to be, when people thought of Denver, they thought of skiing. Now they think of pot. That’s not good.

Anyway, that’s why your “photoshoped” bong-building thingy made me cry.

What do we do about the image? None of us want Denver to get the reputation that Amsterdam developed over the last 50 or so years.

There are three solutions, IMO:

1st) Encourage other states to legalize pot. That dilutes the attention.

2nd) Pump money into CU, CSU, and, DU to study what marijuana really does, what positive products can be spun off, etc.

The issue is not just the "reputation," but how can the product be utilized for treatment in psychotherapy, pain reduction from trauma, and, cancer therapy for starters.

3rd) Colorado, Washington state, and whatever state votes to legalize pot need to work out social behavior standards-not just laws- relating to the legal use of pot. For example, I do not like smelling pot as I am driving down the road with my windows down (some of the pot stores truly "stink.") nor do I appreciate wafts of smell while I am walking on the sidewalk to a business appointment, anymore than I like the smell of fetid booze.

I worry about the affects of pot on children, and, how "good" and "responsible" social behavior is taught to them. US kids, as a rule, are not receiving a good education as it is, and, the deleterious impact of pot on a mind in it's learning phase still has not been adequately mapped. Does the "mellow" aspect of smoking pot reduce the angst required to learn subjects like physics, mathematics, writing, and, foreign languages which are increasingly important skills for the next generation to be able to compete in the Chinese Centric world? Young people need to understand just how clear their minds need to be to prepare for their future leadership roles. Once these young people have grown up and mastered basic 21st Century skills, then what they chose to smoke is their business.

What has to happen is for our culture to hammer out new, widely accepted behavior norms.

(Hopefully, TV, and, movies, institutions that bear much of the responsibility for social "crap," can assist.)

[bobg]

The weed jokes will pass. The discussion will die down as these other states join in. Sales are starting in Washington next month, Alaska is voting on it in the fall, and Oregon could vote on it in the fall as well. Additionally, In 2016 MPP is targeting about a half dozen states to vote on it.

In some respects it's like gay marriage, in that there were tons of jokes about it initially, everyone said it would drive conservatives and investment away from that state, but without googling it I cannot tell you which state did it first but I am sure they are doing fine. These things die down as people realize how stupid we have been, and how the jokes just aren't funny in light of the actual ramifications.

Here in CO we are probably sick of it more than most because we've already had these discussions ad nauseam. But somehow someone seems to always bring it up, and we reluctantly debate it all over again with same old tired arguments (on both sides).

[rml213]

I'm no fan of the detached parking structure either but I'll take it if it brings a 25 story residential tower and 500 tenants to this part of what is a now an eerily quiet at night part of the city. Aside from One Lincoln, this is the only residential in the near vicinity..and hopefully the catalyst to really connect CBD with Uptown.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Even Tasha Yar at the Star Trek TNG reunion at comic con this past weekend made a snide little "rocky mountain HIGH" joke.

I have sooooooo many comic con photos coming everyone's way today.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by RyanD

I have sooooooo many comic con photos coming everyone's way today.

Was just looking through them!