DENVER | Main Development Thread #6 - Page 8

RyanD · #**141** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

That looks like a giant wart at the bottom of the tower, it doesn't work with the very sleek glass facade of the structure.

I thnk they're still tweaking the base. This rendering shows something different:

New Central Downtown Project: 1144 15th Street
via DenverInfill

Also, this photo doesn't have Spire built out. This is going to be a great cluster of off 17th Street towers.

wong21fr · #**142** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 5:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

Exciting...the holding costs on that land, combined w Denver's CURRENT fundamentals could finally make this happen...we'll know in 10 months...idk, I still put it at 50/50?

Hopefully the fact that they want to do this as a speculative development and lined up an equity placement increases those odds somewhat.

Now we just have to wait to see if T2 stirs out of the depths and resurfaces. It would certainly have preleasing requirements unless Callahan brings on a very large equity partner interested in a long-term investment (REIT's or pension funds come to mind).

But, let's look over the developments that have been announced this past week:

Skyhouse
17W
1144 15th St

All are being done by outside developers and are projects that are speculative by nature (apartments) or by choice (1144). I think that one factor that is helping Denver out is that institutional investors are looking outside of the major coastal cities for new holding where the economics are better and the entry cost is lower. That bodes well for future real estate cycles and for development to continue even during downturns.

bunt_q · #**143** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 6:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

DBJ<DI

Here's the rendering:

New Central Downtown Project: 1144 15th Street
via DenverInfill

I, for one, love this base. Gives it a little more earthy street feel, which complements the massive sleek glass hulk nicely.

Wizened Variations · #**144** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 6:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Hopefully the fact that they want to do this as a speculative development and lined up an equity placement increases those odds somewhat.

Now we just have to wait to see if T2 stirs out of the depths and resurfaces. It would certainly have preleasing requirements unless Callahan brings on a very large equity partner interested in a long-term investment (REIT's or pension funds come to mind).

But, let's look over the developments that have been announced this past week:

Skyhouse
17W
1144 15th St

All are being done by outside developers and are projects that are speculative by nature (apartments) or by choice (1144). I think that one factor that is helping Denver out is that institutional investors are looking outside of the major coastal cities for new holding where the economics are better and the entry cost is lower. That bodes well for future real estate cycles and for development to continue even during downturns.

Yes indeed.

This ties in, indirectly, with what a couple well to do friends of mine have been saying. While their worth is increasing, there are not too many good investments out there.

I think that 2nd tier real estate markets, particularly in cities with "younger" demographic appeal, are now being looked at by those who do not have enough money to buy out large businesses, but, have too much money to let it rot paying under 5% interest.

Real estate (and oil exploration) provide very good tax deductions, too.

denconyny · #**145** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 8:03 PM**

Okay, here's my idea, of course......

Since the building has no prospective tenants, and Denver is the Marijuana Capital of the Universe now, I say that we make this a Pot Merchants and Trade Building, and attract all there is here with our new, unique industry.

And just to make the building noticeable, have the developer add a bowl extending from the side...... and we'll call this the Bong Building.

Good idea, anyone?

for snark, this isn't too bad, eh?

Sam Hill · #**146** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 8:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I, for one, love this base. Gives it a little more earthy street feel, which complements the massive sleek glass hulk nicely.

Yeah, I like it too.

Sam Hill · #**147** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by denconyny

Okay, here's my idea, of course......

Since the building has no prospective tenants, and Denver is the Marijuana Capital of the Universe now, I say that we make this a Pot Merchants and Trade Building, and attract all there is here with our new, unique industry.

And just to make the building noticeable, have the developer add a bowl extending from the side...... and we'll call this the Bong Building.

Good idea, anyone?

for snark, this isn't too bad, eh?

Snark or not, I would literally cry if this happened.

(Have you just been waiting around for the right opportunity to photoshop a bowl on to a building?) :p

TakeFive · #**148** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Yeah, I like it too.

Me makes three.

TakeFive · #**149** Posted **Jun 13, 2014, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

Yes indeed.
I think that 2nd tier real estate markets, particularly in cities with "younger" demographic appeal, are now being looked at by those who do not have enough money to buy out large businesses, but, have too much money to let it rot paying under 5% interest.

Yes, I have read as much. As Wong mentions the 1st wave of investment went into gateway cities. Austin has been awesome from their tech explosion bringing higher paying jobs.
Denver has managed to be a favored 2nd tier city.

Two things: the lower value of the dollar encouraged foreign capital inflows. It's amazing how quickly the large overhang in Miami disappeared primarily b/c of money from LatAm.
2nd with continuing ZIRP the cap rates have come down aggressively for RE. Wong is correct that the price to play in Denver is more attractive.

Lastly, it's well known that investors have favored transit locations. For investors looking ahead 3 decades, transit is something that adds attractive value and security of investment.

Oops, finally DIA is tremendously important to our successful "regionalism" and the vigor of downtown. Add in key new direct foreign flights and Voila.

comoneymaker · #**150** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 5:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

I actually really dislike the base. I wish it would be lowered two of those lines. It would make it look a heck of a lot taller.

Like I said before. They need to trim the base still. It works just like pubes... if you trim them it looks bigger lol. You can delete this I am drunk.

seventwenty · #**151** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 6:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

like i said before. They need to trim the base still. It works just like pubes... If you trim them it looks bigger lol. You can delete this i am drunk.

qfp

bunt_q · #**152** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 2:06 PM**

This is what legal marijuana is doing to Denver, we're getting dumber by the day.

Dale · #**153** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 2:47 PM**

Doesn't seem like the tower is getting a ringing endorsement from Denverites.

wong21fr · #**154** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 3:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale

Doesn't seem like the tower is getting a ringing endorsement from Denverites.

Oh, we're pretty stoked about the design of the tower, but it's not exactly groundbreaking as Pickard Chilton borrowed heavily from Eight Avenue Place in Calgary for the design. Both are Hines developments and they share a lot of similarities. There's also the history of the site with Hines trying to develop a tower since 2001 and not pulling the trigger which is cause for a bit of pessimism on our part.

Wizened Variations · #**155** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Oh, we're pretty stoked about the design of the tower, but it's not exactly groundbreaking as Pickard Chilton borrowed heavily from Eight Avenue Place in Calgary for the design. Both are Hines developments and they share a lot of similarities. There's also the history of the site with Hines trying to develop a tower since 2001 and not pulling the trigger which is cause for a bit of pessimism on our part.

Agreed.

Denver City has a conservative architectural tradition that, IMO, has been caused by repeated recessionary cycles. Cost is a huge consideration, which tends to encourage "safe gambles" in both building height, and, building design.

When, and, if, Denver booms again with the exuberance of the Oil Boom in the late 1970s and early 80s, new icons will be built.

**********

Today, in the US, IMO, only two cities are putting up large numbers of truly signature buildings: NYC and Miami. This, of course, is due to the huge amount of money available in both cities as of 2014.

seventwenty · #**156** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 6:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This is what legal marijuana is doing to Denver, we're getting dumber by the day.

What do bikes do for us?

Wizened Variations · #**157** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

This is what legal marijuana is doing to Denver, we're getting dumber by the day.

If it were only that simple.

We have been getting steadily dumber since kids first started to grow up in front of a TV. This began the trend for people not to socialize face to face, so organizations of all sizes declined and people associated with one another face to face in groups less.

Our primary and secondary school systems tend to stink compared to many other industrialized (lol) nations.

Our parents tend to become divorced, and, too many children are being raised by single mothers.

The number of moderately high paying jobs is shrinking.

Etc.

***************

As far as bicycling is concerned? Exercise never hurts, but, eulogizing bicycling as a panacea and living the life style can take away time better spent studying Chinese or functional analysis.

Octavian · #**158** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 6:55 PM**

From DIA Facebook:

Cirrus · #**159** Posted **Jun 14, 2014, 7:25 PM**

We're not getting dumber. We've always been dumb.

Anyway, I like the tower, and am glad it has a base that's not just the same glass curtain the whole way down.

Wizened Variations · #**160** Posted **Jun 15, 2014, 3:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

New Central Downtown Project: 1144 15th Street
via DenverInfill

I had to look at the preliminary rendering a few days to figure out why the design made me feel uneasy.

The building has no grace. The building comes across as bulbous. There are numerous examples of this style being built today that certainly are superior.

What is the quandary? Simply, that the Y axis divided into the X (width from the southeast to the northwest) makes the thing look squat.

Remedy? Use the same maximization of usable square footage per story, keep the design, but make the building about 10 to 15 (very cool) stories taller. Stretch out the angled surfaces over the extra height, and, the building would make favorable comments all over the damned internet.

Make it taller, fellas, if you want to sell this to prospective clients next year who arrive by train directly from DIA. These guys KNOW what the rest of the world is doing.

Sell the idea to THEM.