DENVER | Main Development Thread #6 - Page 6

Mulligan · #**101** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:10 PM**

Wrong thread - sorry!

EngiNerd · #**102** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:15 PM**

RDS has been on a roll, and he gets us a public rendering of 17W! A few less units than the last time I heard, but still a huge project (there is also 1 level of below grade parking not mentioned).

Quote:

Holland Partner Group of Vancouver, Washington is planning a second large apartment project in the Union Station neighborhood. The Platform apartment currently under construction by Holland is located across Wewatta Street from the current proposal. This development, known as Seventeen W, will be located on an entire block bounded by 17th, 18th, Wewatta, and Chestnut Streets. The project will include 640 apartment units in three towers extending above a 3 story podium that includes two floors of parking and 70,000 square feet of retail space. The overall project will be 13 stories and 155 feet in height. The project architect is The Eisen Group of Washington D.C. The project is currently under review by the City. Construction is proposed to start in mid 2015:

http://www.denver-cityscape.com

wong21fr · #**103** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

That's about where we start a paralegal with a 4-year degree. I'd say that's about right. Possibly even higher than average for a plain old non-tech job.

A starting civil engineer wouldn't make more than $45k. A starting attorney is probably low-to-mid 50s.

Jesus, am I glad I went into corporate finance and analysis.

enjo13 · #**104** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:19 PM**

Love it! That pool area looks pretty fantastic.

TakeFive · #**105** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Question. I may be a little removed from....

Reality?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

If Comrade Bunt can explain why the premier urban neighborhood in Denver, or rapidly becoming the premier one, should have opportunities for someone making $35K than I am all ears.

There are other areas for the bottom 4 quintiles to reside. Downtown Denver shouldn't necessarily be one of them unless you really buy into that whole everyone should be afforded the same opportunity bullshit.

I don't significantly disagree and you did start out speaking of college grads. You've also provided examples of areas that can accommodate lower payscale people.
Originally you made reference to "central Denver" which could mean different things. But....

Downtown Denver provides a lot of jobs. Soon the hotel room count will surpass 9,000. That's a lot of jobs. There is easily over 1,000 probably closer to 1,500 retail establishments.
That's a lot of jobs. Employees which make businesses successful and profitable need convenient, accessible housing to get to their job. That's just...

wong21fr · #**106** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Reality?

Possibly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Downtown Denver provides a lot of jobs. Soon the hotel room count will surpass 9,000. That's a lot of jobs. There is easily over 1,000 probably closer to 1,500 retail establishments.
That's a lot of jobs. Employees which make businesses successful and profitable need convenient, accessible housing to get to their job. That's just...

Ain't that what the the train and 'da bus are for? Or even a cute fixie heading down the bike lanes that the service sector crowd can use to get to their jobs?

wong21fr · #**107** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

RDS has been on a roll, and he gets us a public rendering of 17W! A few less units than the last time I heard, but still a huge project (there is also 1 level of below grade parking not mentioned).

Wow! That's one massive project. Not sure if I like that the grocer appears to be taking the entire 17th St. frontage rather than being oriented to Wewatta and allowing for some additional retail slots along 17th, but still pretty nice. Looks like the access tunnel/alley cuts all the way through the podium, hopefully that remains the case.

Wizened Variations · #**108** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Reality?

I don't significantly disagree and you did start out speaking of college grads. You've also provided examples of areas that can accommodate lower payscale people.
Originally you made reference to "central Denver" which could mean different things. But....

Downtown Denver provides a lot of jobs. Soon the hotel room count will surpass 9,000. That's a lot of jobs. There is easily over 1,000 probably closer to 1,500 retail establishments.
That's a lot of jobs. Employees which make businesses successful and profitable need convenient, accessible housing to get to their job. That's just...

Paying, of course, enough money for someone to live outside the core, and take the bus downtown, preferably on a local bus.

Downtown Denver, like all growing downtowns in the US, runs on people making $10 - 15/hour. People washing dishes, cooking, retailing, and cleaning. These ancillary occupations, IMO, constitute somewhere around 50% of downtown employment.

Such support jobs in downtown areas for over a century have not provided enough income for people to live downtown, and, workers performing such tasks historically have lived outside of the urban core where housing costs are relatively low. Those who work downtown in ancillary jobs cannot live there, and, if they choose to live close by in (relatively) low rent areas, have to put up with increased crime. Those with children that work low end jobs in downtown districts also worry about the safety of their children and the quality of schools.

Building government (on any level) subsidized housing for ancillary workers seldom works. Consequently, IMO, efforts to financially assist such workers need to be directed towards frequent, 24x7*, safe, local bus service in a 45 minute time distance radius from downtown.

*Imagine having to take public transportation (or walk a good distance) home after cleaning a bar that closes at 2:00a, for example.

EDIT: The cheapest way to assist low end workers is to have subsidized bus passes through employers. For workers with a stable work history, I can see no reason why monthly bus passes should not be free.

EngiNerd · #**109** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 5:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Wow! That's one massive project. Not sure if I like that the grocer appears to be taking the entire 17th St. frontage rather than being oriented to Wewatta and allowing for some additional retail slots along 17th, but still pretty nice. Looks like the access tunnel/alley cuts all the way through the podium, hopefully that remains the case.

You know, I actually like that its on 17th. Its a Whole Foods, so they will probably have a little cafe/coffee shop, and hopefully they setup a patio for it.

The tunnel/alley does indeed cut all the way through...whether it will be open for public pedestrian access or not, that I'm not sure about.

Its a huge development, 640 units has to be the single most of any building in Denver I would have to think. I think the Spire still only has around 500. The Parkway probably has a lot, but that is over multiple buildings.

EngiNerd · #**110** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

Those who work downtown in ancillary jobs cannot live there, and, if they choose to live close by in (relatively) low rent areas, have to put up with increased crime.

Technically, Downtown has a higher crime rate than most (if not all) of the surrounding districts.

TakeFive · #**111** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 5:46 PM**

Too funny:

Quote:

Liberals want to walk, and conservatives want big houses: survey

PLANSIT · #**112** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 6:02 PM**

More info on Skyhouse

Atlanta developer to build 25-story apartment tower in Denver

Quote:

An Atlanta developer is going to build the first high-rise luxury apartment tower in uptown off 18th Street, between Lincoln and Broadway.
Novare Group, with Batson-Cook Development Co. of Atlanta, will build a 25-story, 354-unit apartment complex called SkyHouse Denver on what’s now a parking lot north of the Mile High Center building and across from Trinity Church.
It’s the company’s 12th SkyHouse and it expects to break ground in the third or fourth quarter...

READ MORE

Wizened Variations · #**113** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 6:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

More info on Skyhouse

Atlanta developer to build 25-story apartment tower in Denver

If built as shown, the building will age well. Looks like a mini-spire with the crown the Spire never will wear.

bcp · #**114** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 7:26 PM**

That fits nicely...love that du jor is to now bring buildings to the lot line.

awholeparade · #**115** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 7:31 PM**

Yep, that looks great. It will be a huge improvement for that area.

Agent Orange · #**116** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 9:01 PM**

Glass midrises are nice and all, but as a resident of a city with two Skyhouses and a third under construction (Tampa), I'm not exactly thrilled with their cookie cutter designs. It's better than no development, but I've become annoyed that Novarre doesn't even try to distinguish their structures. I view them as the double wide manufacturer of the vertical residential developers. As long as they only build one in Denver, it won't be too bad.

Scottk · #**117** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Jesus, am I glad I went into corporate finance and analysis.

Good for you!!!!!

Do you want a cookie???

wong21fr · #**118** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottk

Good for you!!!!!

Do you want a cookie???

Nah, I can just buy one or a dozen. Would you like one? Sounds like you could need a couple, along with some vegetables, to go with your daily dinner of ramen.

(Seriously, I'm just surprised that an entry level position for a college graduate pays so low. 10 years ago, sure, but I would expect at least $40K for any kind of degree that's not a complete throw away.)

PLANSIT · #**119** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 9:47 PM**

Eh, cookie cutter high-rises are fairly common. Spire has a zillion doppelgangers.

denconyny · #**120** Posted **Jun 12, 2014, 9:52 PM**

Even though these 17W towers are on one base, do these count as one building here, or do these count as three different buildings when counting the number of Denver highrises?