YEG - Edmonton Int Airport - Page 83

Rocket252 · #**1641** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 10:02 PM**

But the "location of the airport" caused a lot of the problems you mention in your points.

- Leduc County issues
- Transport and transit issues
- N/S express route

I feel if the airport was located closer to the city there would have been more urgency to get the transportation and other issues dealt with.

But it is too late now and we have to deal with the mistakes that were made back then by people with no vision.

Edmonchuck · #**1642** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 4:52 AM**

Where else could you suggest it could be? Short of extending the runways at YXD, no matter where you put YEG, it would be an issue. In the city at the time (remember, it was 1955), the noise issues would have killed it.

So, it had to be far enough outside the city. Aka....county.

Sturgeon county, Strathcona county, Parkland county, pick your county. So, county = moot.

Transport and transit - MacKinnon Ravine dead...bye bye west.

97th and the CF that is the downtown access to that...looks eerily familiar to Calgary Trail N/S

METS dead....east dead too.

Transit - wow, this one is a CF all over town!

People at the time weren't going to be happy no matter what you did. ...and you'd think distance would create urgency, not proximity. Even bus service to YXD sucked sucked sucked sucked sucked.

Nope, location is the boogeyman....a very very very easy boogyman. The real reason - ego.

Rocket252 · #**1643** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 2:37 PM**

Anywhere closer to the city would have been preferable - max 5 miles from the city limits at the most.

After all it is not the Leduc International Airport.

Bad Decision - Bad location

But nothing can be done now. We have to deal with it and that means closing down the Muni, growing the Port Alberta Concept and Getting LRT to YEG ASAP

240glt · #**1644** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 3:32 PM**

I think the location of YEG is fine. It takes no longer to get there than it takes to get to any other city airport, plus with all the unutilized land surrounding it, the Port Alberta vision can be made a reality.

People get so bent out of shape because EIA is physically located in Luduc county. Who cares ? Vancouver International Airport is located in Richmond, but you never hear anyone complaining about that!

lubicon · #**1645** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt

I think the location of YEG is fine. It takes no longer to get there than it takes to get to any other city airport, plus with all the unutilized land surrounding it, the Port Alberta vision can be made a reality.

People get so bent out of shape because EIA is physically located in Luduc county. Who cares ? Vancouver International Airport is located in Richmond, but you never hear anyone complaining about that!

Other than the people in Richmond and surrounding areas that bitch about the noise. And that is one very big plus about YEG's location. Other than taking off over Leduc, there are practically no noise restrictions at YEG meaning the airport can function 24/7 with few restrictions. That is a huge plus, especially for cargo. If YEG was closer in to Edmonton there would be more noise issues today. We are already starting to see that at YYC.

tuffyy · #**1646** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 8:11 PM**

Closer to the city would have been great but what if it limited the amount of land that we now see open for projects?YEG has the most land of any airport in Canada open for development.And with city quickly stretching south it really is not far atall.

Driving to YYZ for me from my former home took a minimum of 90 minutes on a good day!I will keep my 15-20 minute drive from the Westend anyday...

Coldrsx · #**1647** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 8:13 PM**

with AHD YEG is finally "close" to the city IMO and in 10-20 years from now we will be thankful of its location.

What we do need to do is provide public transit (bus then LRT) and have an improved hwy 2 from YEG to the city limits (lighting) along with a HOV lane or taxi/bus lane.

Edmonchuck · #**1648** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 10:56 PM**

Seriously,the whole reason why it was built more than 5 miles outside of the city.

Hello DC-8 and 707. ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. 5 miles at 170 knots.is not too long to cover...

Plus, you needed room to grow. Look at the land that they have, and it makes sense.

rapid_business · #**1649** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 2:28 AM**

Really though? Ideal? I would have thought the Ellerslie location would have been better.... it coulda been the same size, just closer to the city for noise complaints and all.

dansk · #**1650** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 4:28 AM**

Funny, somethings in Edmonton don't change. You always bitch about the distance and the muni. Sure the distance sucks...and isn't ideal, but it is there and won't move....deal with it.

rapid_business · #**1651** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 5:45 AM**

Someone's got a stick up the ass. Calm down. I'm just saying as they initially planned it X number of years ago, the Ellerslie location would have panned out better IMO. Perhaps not, but I'm just tossing the thought around. That's it.

feepa · #**1652** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 3:03 PM**

Could you imagine if they had put it at Ellerslie road? We would hear people complaining about noise. The distance issue is not an issue anymore. At least in my mind. Back in the 80's when 34 ave was where you felt the city started, sure that distance seemed long...

Rocket252 · #**1653** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 3:10 PM**

^ I agree. The Ellerslie location would have been the preferred location. YEG's present location has hurt us more than helped us. It was crazy for a small city like Edmonton to have an airport so far out at that time in its growth. That caused a lot of problems including the ongoing debate between the International and the Muni - the transit issues. It is one of the reasons among many that Calgary has overtaken us and is the true international Airport of this province with passenger loads almost twice ours. Sure it is great now regarding all the space YEG has but at what cost?

feepa · #**1654** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 3:21 PM**

6 million pax is still great for a city of this size. If more and more people stop flying from here to Calgary and then to there destination, our airport will soon be on par with YYC

Edmonchuck · #**1655** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 3:30 PM**

I will say it again.

Ellerslie, while feasible and closer, would now be saddled by noise abatement. There is no guarantee that YEG won't either, but it is protected.

The BEST choice was Namao - no bridge to build - but it is where it is. The location is a complete and utter boogyman that is about 1/10th of the problem.

Politics and infighting are 9/10ths. No location would be immune from that.

dansk · #**1656** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 4:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by feepa

6 million pax is still great for a city of this size. If more and more people stop flying from here to Calgary and then to there destination, our airport will soon be on par with YYC

No it wouldn't.

ZiZiPop · #**1657** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansk

No it wouldn't.

Such a well thought out argument. Convinced me!

I don't think it would be on par because of the corperate travel that Calgary attracts. Also Calgary is a HUB.

However I believe it would be a lot closer (maybe a million). Anyone actually have the numbers for that?

MalcolmTucker · #**1658** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 7:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiZiPop

Such a well thought out argument. Convinced me!

I don't think it would be on par because of the corperate travel that Calgary attracts. Also Calgary is a HUB.

However I believe it would be a lot closer (maybe a million). Anyone actually have the numbers for that?

I remember in one of the High speed rail studies, that flights between Calgary and Edmonton amounted to something like 600k people a year.

If you assume 100% of those people are coming through Calgary on connections and being 'stolen' it wouldn't increase Edmonton's pax numbers at all since those people would just be taking flights out of Edmonton, it just might change the mix a bit.

By car, I have never seen a study that shows how significant the loss is. ERAA assumes it is large but only back it up by 'common sense and anecdotal evidence.

I would assume this loss is limited by the size of the parking lots at YYC, which is lets say approximately 5000 spots (just looking at the google maps of the park and fly and park and jet lots there are around 3000 spots, plus 1000 in the parkade. I added the 'extra spots' to inflate the results, since I still think they are much smaller than one would think. )

If even half those spots are used by people from Red Deer north, thats 2500 spots, with lets say an average of 1 week stay (might be high but would account for lower than capacity usage most of the time). Thats 130,000 cars. Being generous at 3 persons per car, that is 390,000 pax. Double counting for inbound and outbound thats 780,000 pax.

In this case, Edmonton may be loosing 1.4 million pax a year to Calgary (600,000 aren't really lost, they are just hubbing through Calgary and are still counted on Edmonton's numbers). Hubbing customers aren't lost, only people that drive to Calgary are lost truely.

I think the loss to Calgary numbers are much lower than what many people at the ERAA and just general Edmontonians think. 3 hours is a long drive, and I would be surprised if the number I predicted isn't even a big overshot.

Coldrsx · #**1659** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 7:27 PM**

^i still know many many people who fly thru or out of YYC from Edmonton.

I wouldnt be suprised if it is 750,000-1,000,000 annually.

feepa · #**1660** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 7:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^i still know many many people who fly thru or out of YYC from Edmonton.

I wouldnt be suprised if it is 750,000-1,000,000 annually.

Me neither. I know of lots of people who'll drive from edmonton area to calgary to catch a flight, I also known of many that are forced to fly through calgary from yeg cause there is no other way, and a lot of the deals on ac or wj make you fly through Calgary as well.

though I don't dispute the numbers has been provided above, I wonder how old those numbers are, and how many people actually drive down to calgary just to fly.