Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hotels are NOT shelters. In Langley City alone, there are the following:

1. Starting Point Outreach
2. Salvation Army Gateway of Hope
3. Stepping Stone Community Services
4. The Langley District Help Network
5. Bill Reid Place
6. Ishtar Women's Resource Society

Care calling them to find out if they are really full?

The hotel article was your source, not mine. You implied they left the hotels to shoot up for the afternoon, voluntarily; I actually read the whole article and found out the opposite was true.

You don't need to open emergency shelters if there's vacancies in the regular ones. Care calling them to find out if they're really half-full? Or the mayor to ask if she lied yesterday?

At a police update on a series of shootings that left two people dead and two more injured Monday, Langley City Mayor Val van den Broek became emotional when asked about the victims, at least two of whom are believed to have been experiencing homelessness...

“... We’ve been in situations where people have come up and begged me for a house to stay overnight. And I have nothing. I have to say to them, ‘I’m sorry, I don’t have anywhere for you.’ So … maybe this is the catalyst for moving forward...”

Or, keep digging your hole even deeper as per usual. Your call.

[Klazu]

With no business being crazy enough to set up shop in Chinatown, how long until it's a complete ghost town for DTES to completely take over? I will give it two years until Chinatown is now more and the area will be Canada's largest tent city with no businesses left. Sad state of things.

https://biv.com/article/2022/07/tinland-joins-business-exodus-vancouvers-crime-plagued-chinatown

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

With no business being crazy enough to set up shop in Chinatown,

You don't say? Private & Co and Bootleg Barbers' opened last week.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

With no business being crazy enough to set up shop in Chinatown, how long until it's a complete ghost town for DTES to completely take over? I will give it two years until Chinatown is now more and the area will be Canada's largest tent city with no businesses left. Sad state of things.

https://biv.com/article/2022/07/tinland-joins-business-exodus-vancouvers-crime-plagued-chinatown

How come no one from Tinland was actually quoted in the story saying that crime has anything to do with the relocation? I'm sure that's part of it, but surely rents are cheaper in Richmond plus there's a very large Asian population there as well.

I just think it's interesting the story is about Tinland but it only quotes two former Chinatown store owners who packed up and left two years ago. I guess the BIV reporter didn't want to do any leg work?

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You don't say? Private & Co and Bootleg Barbers' opened last week.

Let's make a note and check back on this in a year... see if they're still calling themselves the saviors of Chinatown.. or victims of the situation.

Ron.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Let's make a note and check back on this in a year... see if they're still calling themselves the saviors of Chinatown.. or victims of the situation.

Ron.

This forum needs a remindme bot like Twitter and Reddit have

But seriously, the two business owners both operated in the neighborhood a few years ago. Sure, things have declined since then, but you would think they at least have some idea what operating in that area will be like.

BTW, the other day I biked by Honeybee Bruncheonette. I was shocked at how packed it was on a Monday afternoon. Union and Gore may be a block or so outside of Chinatown / Downtown Eastside, but that shows there is a least an appetite to support local businesses in the area.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Let's make a note and check back on this in a year... see if they're still calling themselves the saviors of Chinatown.. or victims of the situation.

Ron.

Just pointing out that Klazu's wrong about no new businesses in Chinatown, (in a thread that's not about retail, or Chinatown).

[spacebjorn]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I have no sympathy for anyone pushing a dog in a stroller.

For the record, my wife's massage therapist works on the border of Gastown and Chinatown. Whenever she has gone with our baby in a stroller, everyone on the sidewalk yells "baby on the block", move over to the side, and let her pass.



Sure, this meme attempts to dunk on people like me, but I do live downtown and I do walk everyday and I've never been harassed or confronted. I have seen some people yell at someone who looked at them the "wrong" way, but those confrontations have never turned violent.

I don't know what percentage chance there is that I'll be attacked by a random stranger for no good reason on a given day. Even if there are two totally random violent attacks each day in Vancouver that's still a 0.0003% chance (2 / 600k) that I'll be the next victim. Maybe that's a high enough probability for some people to advocate for mass incarceration, or to avoid going downtown, but it isn't for me.

I don't think anyone is denying that their is a mental health crisis and something should be done about it, but everyone on this forum has a different tolerance for danger, and we all have a different threshold that must be surpassed before the fearmongering becomes rational outrage.

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

My wife is comfortable going almost anywhere. She has done some outreach work on Skid Row and she testifies that Vancouver isn't anywhere near that bad.

We take the appropriate precautions, meaning we don't stare at people or mouth off to strangers. Other than that, we feel comfortable walking through most neighborhoods at almost any time of day.

Do you not see the irony in this? 'Fearmongering' is not okay when recognizing the city's safety measure has deteriorated; however, giving mention that we need to not stare, and always walk on the proverbial eggshells when approaching strangers is an acceptable method of fear...

[Vin]

Longing to be just like West Coast USA is Vancouver's downfall.....

• Video Link

The next generation here will go through a worse environment than this but probably desensitized because this will become a normalcy.

Hollywood North it is.

[spacebjorn]

Originally Posted by giallo

You really have no idea, do you?

Look, I hate what's happening to North American cities, and I'm especially discouraged to see what's happening in Vancouver. It's depressing walking by dozens of mentally ill and addicted people, who need real help, on a daily basis. It's demoralizing to not know if there's any real plan by the province or feds to address this. It should be nightly news with politicians addressing it daily, but it isn't. It sucks to have an addict passed out on my stoop at 9am as I'm going to work. It's embarrassing that my wife doesn't feel comfortable to walk from Commercial/Broadway station alone at night. And it's only going to get worse until we reach some kind of breaking point. But if you think people are just "choosing" this lifestyle, and it's all fun and games, you're sorely mistaken, and obviously don't know anyone that's going through it.

It's a living hell. A hell that doesn't loosen its grasp. One where your only choice is to get a fix, so you don't feel like dying, or don't get it, and go into severe withdrawal.

One of my best friends is down there. He's smart, came from a supportive family, and truly had the world at his fingertips, except that between the ages of 3 -7, he was molested by a member of his family. It's something he's never been able to deal with, and he started to self-medicate during his teenage years. He started off like the rest of us; a few beers and some weed, but he always took it to the next level. He had to get wasted. It wasn't enough just to get buzzed. My friends and I always thought, "He's the party guy. He just likes to get wasted and party." We had no idea the anxiety, panic attacks and depression he was going through back then.

Fast forward to 2015, he started using prescription drugs to deal with the anxiety. He was doing it in secret, and didn't want any of us to know. By 2017, he was a full blown needle user, but still trying to keep it under wraps. We were all well aware of what was happening by this time - as was his family.

In the end, he's been to multiple drug rehabs, but none of them have worked. His parents and grandfather have cut him off completely. They felt that anything they gave him was just contributing to his slow demise, and hoped that by not giving him any money, he'll finally hit a point where he hits absolute rock bottom, has some kind of epiphany, and can finally get clean. It hasn't happened.

I had just got my apartment in Vancouver a few months ago, and he immediately started messaging me, asking if he could crash there. He had been attacked at his SRO, so he and his girlfriend were sleeping on the streets in the DTES. I said no. I had no idea what kind of shape he was in, who his girlfriend was, and I had my wife arriving in two days. It was tough to deny him a roof over his head, but he's such a junkie, he'd absolutely do drugs in my house, despite promising not to. He's done it before.

I have no idea how he'll get the strength to turn his life around. He's burnt every bridge, and lost all self-confidence. He has a terrible impression of himself, and feels like an absolute failure. It's tragic seeing what my friend has become.

Now repeat this story by the thousands, and you'll start to get an idea of what's going on. Mostly good people in a terrible situation.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. But even from your own post you've recognized that he's made poor decisions throughout his life and I'm going to assume he's probably hurt people along the way to have himself in this predicament. At this point, you just sound off like an apologist for criminals.... like we're suppose to feel sorry for all the rapists and murderers in the world because they've had childhood trauma.

I'd agree with Vin's post... your friend's downward spiral could've been prevented from more stringent laws that limits access to street drugs and harsher penalty to drug use. There should be stigma against using drugs because your friend is a prime example of fall from grace due to substance abuse.... the status quo is almost like, go ahead... use it at your own risk, we're not going to judge you or arrest you for it.... which doesn't effing work???

We absolutely need to warn people about the risks of drug use for the EXACTLY the reason you brought up your friend. The current decriminalization approach is just going to make it worse...

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You don't say? Private & Co and Bootleg Barbers' opened last week.

Quote from title: ".....to help revitalize area"

At least the article is truthful about Chinatown's downfall due to DTES and this inept City.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The hotel article was your source, not mine. You implied they left the hotels to shoot up for the afternoon, voluntarily; I actually read the whole article and found out the opposite was true.

You don't need to open emergency shelters if there's vacancies in the regular ones. Care calling them to find out if they're really half-full? Or the mayor to ask if she lied yesterday?



Or, keep digging your hole even deeper as per usual. Your call.

Of course the mayor would say that. Would she admit to the fact that she let the municipality allow the homeless do dope on the street and not forced into shelters or arrested for those who break bylaws, thus leading to this situation? But of course you would believe every word politicians say, especially those who are always successful on pulling on dumb heartstrings.

Keep giving lame excuses and enable the problems to fester. Your call.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Of course the mayor would say that. Would she admit to the fact that she let the municipality allow the homeless do dope on the street and not forced into shelters or arrested for those who break bylaws, thus leading to this situation? But of course you would believe every word politicians say, especially those who are always successful on pulling on dumb heartstrings.

Keep giving lame excuses and enable the problems to fester. Your call.

You didn't even know who the City of Langley's mayor was until I pulled up the article, and you're already accusing her of ineptitude. Deflect all you want - you still have zero evidence to assert your claim that shelters in Langley have vacancy, that Singapore-type authoritarianism will solve anything, or that more homeless housing won't.

Originally Posted by spacebjorn

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. But even from your own post you've recognized that he's made poor decisions throughout his life and I'm going to assume he's probably hurt people along the way to have himself in this predicament. At this point, you just sound off like an apologist for criminals.... like we're suppose to feel sorry for all the rapists and murderers in the world because they've had childhood trauma.

I'd agree with Vin's post... your friend's downward spiral could've been prevented from more stringent laws that limits access to street drugs and harsher penalty to drug use. There should be stigma against using drugs because your friend is a prime example of fall from grace due to substance abuse.... the status quo is almost like, go ahead... use it at your own risk, we're not going to judge you or arrest you for it.... which doesn't effing work???

We absolutely need to warn people about the risks of drug use for the EXACTLY the reason you brought up your friend. The current decriminalization approach is just going to make it worse...

Alternatively, include mental healthcare as part of MSP so that a coping mechanism isn't required in the first place. Trauma isn't always a "just say no" kind of thing.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

You didn't even know who the City of Langley's mayor was until I pulled up the article, and you're already accusing her of ineptitude. Deflect all you want - you still have zero evidence to assert your claim that shelters in Langley have vacancy, that Singapore-type authoritarianism will solve anything, or that more homeless housing won't.

Don't pretend you know who the mayor of Langley is, not until you googled that article. And you still have zero evidence that Langley shelters are full and can't accommodate anyone else.

Singapore's authoritarianism, while not always popular, makes it the richest country in the entire planet, and certainly one of the safest. If even a tiny fraction of Singapore's strict policies can be implemented here, we won't have severe addiction and homeless issues here. That I can be very sure of, and I am sure you do too.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Don't pretend you know who the mayor of Langley is, not until you googled that article. And you still have zero evidence that Langley shelters are full and can't accommodate anyone else.

Singapore's authoritarianism, while not always popular, makes it the richest country in the entire planet, and certainly one of the safest. If even a tiny fraction of Singapore's strict policies can be implemented here, we won't have severe addiction and homeless issues here. That I can be very sure of, and I am sure you do too.

Unlike some people, I pay attention during the elections. And since you're the one counter-claiming the official story, the burden of proof is on you.

I've actually been to Singapore multiple times, and I read their news. Their safety is unique to them, being a small, dense, easily-monitored city-state full of busybodies (and therefore unlikely to be replicated in bigger countries - China is trying and failing miserably, as we would be); even then, they still have significant cases of assault, rape, murder and even riots just like everybody else.

[chowhou]

How long until we ban the worst gateway drug of them all, alcohol? Smoking a joint doesn't usually lead to snorting coke in the bathroom or popping some Xannies at a party, but alcohol on the other hand...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

How long until we ban the worst gateway drug of them all, alcohol? Smoking a joint doesn't usually lead to snorting coke in the bathroom or popping some Xannies at a party, but alcohol on the other hand...

It also leads to the most cases of crime out of all abuse-able substances on the planet. (mobster voice) Unfortunately, banning it does the exact same thing, if you know what I mean. (/voice)

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Vin

Singapore's authoritarianism, while not always popular, makes it the richest country in the entire planet, and certainly one of the safest.

Singapore is not the richest country. That would be Luxembourg, a country that recently decriminalized marijuana and plans to be the first to legalize it in Europe. I'd also personally prefer to be a citizen of Luxembourg than a citizen of Singapore. I like to have some freedoms.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by spacebjorn

Do you not see the irony in this? 'Fearmongering' is not okay when recognizing the city's safety measure has deteriorated; however, giving mention that we need to not stare, and always walk on the proverbial eggshells when approaching strangers is an acceptable method of fear...

The fearmongering I am thinking of is this common refrain I read around these parts or hear from suburbanites who don't have any clue:

"Don't go to downtown Vancouver at night. You'll get attacked or some panhandler will force you to give them money or you'll step in human feces or you'll see someone doing drugs".

I don't think the people who say those things understand probability or they are exaggerating.

What I do think is reasonable is to take some common sense precautions. Don't stare at or make fun of someone living on the street. Don't engage with someone experience a psychotic episode.

But my family doesn't live in fear. We walk through "sketchy" parts of town at night, we've eaten at restaurants in the DTES, we sleep with our window open in a ground-floor apartment just off Robson.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

What I do think is reasonable is to take some common sense precautions. Don't stare at or make fun of someone living on the street. Don't engage with someone experience a psychotic episode.

I have only ever encountered "violence" once in the DTES.

I used to bus daily through the area, and one day as we turned the corner of Main and Pender there was a group of (I assume) international students looking through the window and pointing. The window got a yogurt cup thrown at it.

Scary? Maybe. Dangerous? Kind of pushing it.