Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Vin]

What a shameful city. The Fire Department is doing the City's work now.....

City of Vancouver fire officials order immediate removal of all East Hastings tents and structures
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/downtown-eastside-hastings-main-encampment-removal

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Because of course, the shooter was a gentleman and couldn't possibly summon up the courage to shoot a transient while they were sleeping. Such dishonourable, disorderly behaviour!

And many people will confirm that some homeless are most definitely up and yelling prior to six in the morning.

The homeless choose to be outside doing drugs, and municipalities allow that.....I really doubt they don't have places to go to spend the night.

Recent homeless deaths worry advocates for those on Langley’s streets
https://www.langleyadvancetimes.com/news...advocates-for-those-on-langleys-streets/
Bruce had been in a local hotel for some time during the pandemic, part of a program that helped people who were homeless or had precarious housing to find shelter.

But Bruce died and was found alone in the bush a few weeks ago.

Aliyah died within a few days of Bruce. Both are believed to have been victims of the toxic drug supply.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

The homeless choose to be outside doing drugs, and municipalities allow that.....I really doubt they don't have places to go to spend the night.

From that same article:

“When we lose them, you lose a member of your family,” said Snow.

She and White are concerned about what they believe is a recent increase in homelessness since a number of hotels that had housed homeless and low-income people during the pandemic began terminating long-term residencies earlier this spring.

The bills were paid by provincial support programs, but the hotels were available because for much of the first year and a half of the pandemic, there were few travellers, for vacation or business.

Hotels are now opening up again to travellers as restrictions have largely been dropped over the last six months.

That has removed another resource that was providing housing for the homeless.

“There is no place for them to go,” said White.

The hotels kicked them out for good. So no, they really do not have any place to spend the night.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

What a shameful city. The Fire Department is doing the City's work now.....

Hey genius, The Fire Department is part of the City of Vancouver. That's why the article starts "City of Vancouver fire officials". So the City is doing something. The problem is where can 130 homeless people currently living on the street be 'put' (bearing in mind they're entitled to go where they want - they can't be forced to go anywhere). We've recently lost the Winter's Hotel, the London Hotel is closed, the Shaldon Hotel is being demolished, the shelter in the First United church is being demolished, and before that the Balmoral and the Regent were closed, and several more SROs have got more expensive, so that's partly why we're short of rooms. There's nothing under construction that's nearly completed, although there are more supportive housing projects underway. Care to name your favourite park to create an instant tent city?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

The homeless choose to be outside doing drugs, and municipalities allow that.....I really doubt they don't have places to go to spend the night.

What do you mean "they allow that"? It's not illegal.

[wabooba]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Hey genius, The Fire Department is part of the City of Vancouver. That's why the article starts "City of Vancouver fire officials". So the City is doing something. The problem is where can 130 homeless people currently living on the street be 'put' (bearing in mind they're entitled to go where they want - they can't be forced to go anywhere). We've recently lost the Winter's Hotel, the London Hotel is closed, the Shaldon Hotel is being demolished, the shelter in the First United church is being demolished, and before that the Balmoral and the Regent were closed, and several more SROs have got more expensive, so that's partly why we're short of rooms. There's nothing under construction that's nearly completed, although there are more supportive housing projects underway. Care to name your favourite park to create an instant tent city?

Yes. And (geez I hate to sound like some European socialist here but) is it not time for government intervention? At whatever levels. This is a gaping wound in the fabric of society, and IMHO only government funding will help build new housing. In a country like Canada, which struts its "Number One Quality of Life," this should not be happening. I think the right to shelter is like the right to medical care.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Vin

The homeless choose to be outside doing drugs, and municipalities allow that.....I really doubt they don't have places to go to spend the night.

You really have no idea, do you?

Look, I hate what's happening to North American cities, and I'm especially discouraged to see what's happening in Vancouver. It's depressing walking by dozens of mentally ill and addicted people, who need real help, on a daily basis. It's demoralizing to not know if there's any real plan by the province or feds to address this. It should be nightly news with politicians addressing it daily, but it isn't. It sucks to have an addict passed out on my stoop at 9am as I'm going to work. It's embarrassing that my wife doesn't feel comfortable to walk from Commercial/Broadway station alone at night. And it's only going to get worse until we reach some kind of breaking point. But if you think people are just "choosing" this lifestyle, and it's all fun and games, you're sorely mistaken, and obviously don't know anyone that's going through it.

It's a living hell. A hell that doesn't loosen its grasp. One where your only choice is to get a fix, so you don't feel like dying, or don't get it, and go into severe withdrawal.

One of my best friends is down there. He's smart, came from a supportive family, and truly had the world at his fingertips, except that between the ages of 3 -7, he was molested by a member of his family. It's something he's never been able to deal with, and he started to self-medicate during his teenage years. He started off like the rest of us; a few beers and some weed, but he always took it to the next level. He had to get wasted. It wasn't enough just to get buzzed. My friends and I always thought, "He's the party guy. He just likes to get wasted and party." We had no idea the anxiety, panic attacks and depression he was going through back then.

Fast forward to 2015, he started using prescription drugs to deal with the anxiety. He was doing it in secret, and didn't want any of us to know. By 2017, he was a full blown needle user, but still trying to keep it under wraps. We were all well aware of what was happening by this time - as was his family.

In the end, he's been to multiple drug rehabs, but none of them have worked. His parents and grandfather have cut him off completely. They felt that anything they gave him was just contributing to his slow demise, and hoped that by not giving him any money, he'll finally hit a point where he hits absolute rock bottom, has some kind of epiphany, and can finally get clean. It hasn't happened.

I had just got my apartment in Vancouver a few months ago, and he immediately started messaging me, asking if he could crash there. He had been attacked at his SRO, so he and his girlfriend were sleeping on the streets in the DTES. I said no. I had no idea what kind of shape he was in, who his girlfriend was, and I had my wife arriving in two days. It was tough to deny him a roof over his head, but he's such a junkie, he'd absolutely do drugs in my house, despite promising not to. He's done it before.

I have no idea how he'll get the strength to turn his life around. He's burnt every bridge, and lost all self-confidence. He has a terrible impression of himself, and feels like an absolute failure. It's tragic seeing what my friend has become.

Now repeat this story by the thousands, and you'll start to get an idea of what's going on. Mostly good people in a terrible situation.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by giallo

You really have no idea, do you?

Thank you for taking the time to explain that story. It must be frustrating having a friend who you would like to help, but can't find a way to do so, and to understand how, and why, it's so difficult for your friend to get out of his situation.

There have been several new housing projects built that have built in support facilities, and many lives have been stabilized and improved, but not enough to meet the demand yet. There are several more being built in Vancouver, mostly in the DTES, but there need to be more in other parts of the city, and in other cities in the region. Covid has made providing services more complex, and the increasingly toxic drug supply has added to the complexity of the crisis by damaging people to a greater degree, and killing more as well, (many as your friend would have been a few years ago, not hard-core addicts).

I hope your friend finds the support he needs to get out of his current situation, and I hope as a society we continue to try to find ways to intervene to try to make things better, rather than writing off thousands of damaged individuals, all of whom must have had friends and family in your situation.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by giallo

You really have no idea, do you?

Thank you for your story, and I am truly sorry to hear about your friend.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

I don't quite buy that, but prove me wrong that there is indeed no space. The shooting was at 6am. No excuse for transients to be out and about at that time even if shelters don't house people in the day. Got you there, didn't I?

The shootings took place overnight over a period of several hours:

Police said the first shooting is believed to have occurred around 12:01 a.m. at the Cascades Casino, at Fraser Highway and 203A Street. A woman who is homeless was critically injured and remains in hospital.

Around 3:40 a.m., a man was shot dead at Creek Stone Place, a supportive housing project on 201 Street.

A second man was killed at the Logan Avenue city bus loop at 5:03 a.m., police said.

Soon after, around 5:45 a.m., police found a fourth man suffering from a gunshot to his leg near the Willowbrook Mall, at 200 Street and the Langley Bypass.

[jlousa]

Not surprised the city is relying on the fire dept to address the issue, this way the politicians can have the issue dealt with and not have to be the bad guys. Years ago we hard a serial hoarder that had his place completely full of phone books, newspapers, magazines and old books. We were unable to get him to deal with the situation nor get an eviction thru the RTB until we were told to have the fire dept come in and deem it a safety hazard that could affect the other tenants in the building.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by giallo

You really have no idea, do you?

Look, I hate what's happening to North American cities, and I'm especially discouraged to see what's happening in Vancouver. It's depressing walking by dozens of mentally ill and addicted people, who need real help, on a daily basis. It's demoralizing to not know if there's any real plan by the province or feds to address this. It should be nightly news with politicians addressing it daily, but it isn't. It sucks to have an addict passed out on my stoop at 9am as I'm going to work. It's embarrassing that my wife doesn't feel comfortable to walk from Commercial/Broadway station alone at night. And it's only going to get worse until we reach some kind of breaking point. But if you think people are just "choosing" this lifestyle, and it's all fun and games, you're sorely mistaken, and obviously don't know anyone that's going through it.

It's a living hell. A hell that doesn't loosen its grasp. One where your only choice is to get a fix, so you don't feel like dying, or don't get it, and go into severe withdrawal.

One of my best friends is down there. He's smart, came from a supportive family, and truly had the world at his fingertips, except that between the ages of 3 -7, he was molested by a member of his family. It's something he's never been able to deal with, and he started to self-medicate during his teenage years. He started off like the rest of us; a few beers and some weed, but he always took it to the next level. He had to get wasted. It wasn't enough just to get buzzed. My friends and I always thought, "He's the party guy. He just likes to get wasted and party." We had no idea the anxiety, panic attacks and depression he was going through back then.

Fast forward to 2015, he started using prescription drugs to deal with the anxiety. He was doing it in secret, and didn't want any of us to know. By 2017, he was a full blown needle user, but still trying to keep it under wraps. We were all well aware of what was happening by this time - as was his family.

In the end, he's been to multiple drug rehabs, but none of them have worked. His parents and grandfather have cut him off completely. They felt that anything they gave him was just contributing to his slow demise, and hoped that by not giving him any money, he'll finally hit a point where he hits absolute rock bottom, has some epiphany, and can finally get clean. It hasn't happened.

I had just got my apartment in Vancouver a few months ago, and he immediately started messaging me, asking if he could crash there. He had been attacked at his SRO, so he and his girlfriend where sleeping on the streets in the DTES. I said no. I had no idea what kind of shape he was in, who his girlfriend was, and I had my wife arriving in two days. It was tough to deny him a roof over his head, but he's such a junkie, he'd absolutely do drugs in my house, despite promising not to. He's done it before.

I have no idea how he'll get the strength to turn his life around. He's burnt every bridge, and lost all self-confidence. He has a terrible impression of himself, and feels like an absolute failure. It's tragic seeing what my friend has become.

Now repeat this story by the thousands, and you'll start to get an idea of what's going on. Mostly good people in a terrible situation.

I know precisely what is happening. We as a society, especially here in North America, let this get out of hand. As for your friend, I am sorry what happened and is still happening to him, but his situation now (hellish as you described) is preventable if family and society are stricter and not lax about drugs etc. The molestation could be the trigger point, but what led him to his life today is the ease of getting drugs, including the "harmless" weed. Worse still is that there is probably no hard intervention to help him get out of this situation. You know it yourself: our government isn't spending money correctly, but keep throwing money down the drain. Instead of enforcing laws, and getting people to rehab, the status-quo simply allows people to rot on the streets. Shelters are shabby and dangerous, when they should be constantly maintained and patrolled by security guards or even policemen to ensure their safety.

So yeah, I do know what people are going through, including family, friends, and neighbours of those addicted or in a crisis, and that is precisely why I want authorities to intervene even more, but not with more carrots, just sticks.

One question for you: why are way more "good people" in such dire straits here in Vancouver than any other cities in Canada, and why is North America worse off when it comes to dealing with these issues? If you claim you know more, please enlighten us. Having lived in Shanghai and Seoul, you do know the answer. Care for some weed in either of those cities?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

What do you mean "they allow that"? It's not illegal.

When will you stop kidding yourself?
Many things are illegal, but not enforced. For those that are legal, maybe they should be made illegal if deemed detrimental to society.

Junkie shoots up on a bench on Granville Street. Cops drive by, see him, and continue driving. Nothing to see here. Junkie dies.

[MIPS]

I don't see VFD stepping in to say it's a fire hazard being the puppet hand of the city telling them to clear out. They did this during the last few tent cities when things began to get especially crowded, but what gives them any more power of enforcement than the city or VPD? They can completely ignore the fire department like they did everyone else and you can't do a lot about it. *shrug*

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I don't see VFD stepping in to say it's a fire hazard being the puppet hand of the city telling them to clear out. They did this during the last few tent cities when things began to get especially crowded, but what gives them any more power of enforcement than the city or VPD? They can completely ignore the fire department like they did everyone else and you can't do a lot about it. *shrug*

The City (VPD) will do the enforcement. Same story as the park camping.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

From that same article:


The hotels kicked them out for good. So no, they really do not have any place to spend the night.

Hotels are NOT shelters. In Langley City alone, there are the following:

1. Starting Point Outreach
2. Salvation Army Gateway of Hope
3. Stepping Stone Community Services
4. The Langley District Help Network
5. Bill Reid Place
6. Ishtar Women's Resource Society

Care calling them to find out if they are really full?

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Vin

I know precisely what is happening. We as a society, especially here in North America, let this get out of hand. As for your friend, I am sorry what happened and is still happening to him, but his situation now (hellish as you described) is preventable if family and society are stricter and not lax about drugs etc. The molestation could be the trigger point, but what led him to his life today is the ease of getting drugs, including the "harmless" weed. Worse still is that there is probably no hard intervention to help him get out of this situation. You know it yourself: our government isn't spending money correctly, but keep throwing money down the drain. Instead of enforcing laws, and getting people to rehab, the status-quo simply allows people to rot on the streets. Shelters are shabby and dangerous, when they should be constantly maintained and patrolled by security guards or even policemen to ensure their safety.

So yeah, I do know what people are going through, including family, friends, and neighbours of those addicted or in a crisis, and that is precisely why I want authorities to intervene even more, but not with more carrots, just sticks.

One question for you: why are way more "good people" in such dire straits here in Vancouver than any other cities in Canada, and why is North America worse off when it comes to dealing with these issues? If you claim you know more, please enlighten us. Having lived in Shanghai and Seoul, you do know the answer. Care for some weed in either of those cities?

My "You don't get it" comment was in reference to this; "The homeless choose to be outside doing drugs, and municipalities allow that.....I really doubt they don't have places to go to spend the night." - which is clearly not the case.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Vin

but his situation now (hellish as you described) is preventable if family and society are stricter and not lax about drugs etc.

Did you read giallo's comment? It sounds like his friend's family and friends have cut them off and aren't enabling their drug use at all.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by giallo

My "You don't get it" comment was in reference to this; "The homeless choose to be outside doing drugs, and municipalities allow that.....I really doubt they don't have places to go to spend the night." - which is clearly not the case.

Have you personally checked the shelters there? You don't really know do you, but keep pretending you do.

I still doubt that the homeless have nowhere to go in Langley, but feel free to prove me wrong.

This article portrays why many homeless folks prefer to stay out:

Why People Experiencing Homelessness Avoid Shelters
https://invisiblepeople.tv/why-people-experiencing-homelessness-avoid-shelters/

For me, paupers can't be choosers.

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Did you read giallo's comment? It sounds like his friend's family and friends have cut them off and aren't enabling their drug use at all.

Yes, but there is no mention of mandatory treatment, and by being free as a bird in his state, he could still get his hands on drugs. Being made to going cold turkey would've brought him around at an earlier stage. He is probably too far gone now, and yet nothing is done.

Not everyone has the will to get out of drug, or any form of addiction, on his/her own accord. That's what I've been trying to say.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Vin

One question for you: why are way more "good people" in such dire straits here in Vancouver than any other cities in Canada, and why is North America worse off when it comes to dealing with these issues? If you claim you know more, please enlighten us. Having lived in Shanghai and Seoul, you do know the answer. Care for some weed in either of those cities?

Koreans don't smoke weed, they skip straight to meth. The worst part about weed in South Korea is it's crazy expensive; It's just not worth it.

From the stories I've heard, I've been advised that the number one thing to help yourself if you ever become homeless is to avoid other homeless people. Not only can other homeless people be crazy and dangerous, it's too easy to find comfort in a community that might not be best for you. Other drug uses will always know a source, or might even kind enough to share some of their dope to help you sleep at night.

Supportive housing might not be so bad when you can secure yourself and your belongings and not involve yourself with neighbours, but when you're in a shelter you're always surrounded by other crabs in the bucket. Personally I'd rather be in a tent in Central Park than sleeping in shelters around the DTES.