The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[ssiguy]

People are far more price sensitive that many think.

Just look at local fares. Every time a transit agency increases fares there is a, if only temporarily, a drop in ridership. Usually these fare increases do not increase the fare itself substantially and are usually around the rate of inflation. They are rarely much of a burden and yet even these small increases can effect ridership.

High GO fares combined with a lack of fare integration are not just issues to be resolved in the future but are at the very crux of the matter in terms of why Torontonians avoid GO, why people in the city are somewhat ambivalent about GO RER, and why SmartTrack had such a positive reaction from the populace............it was rapid transit that they could afford and GO RER is rapid transit that many simply can't.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

People are far more price sensitive that many think.

Just look at local fares. Every time a transit agency increases fares there is a, if only temporarily, a drop in ridership. Usually these fare increases do not increase the fare itself substantially and are usually around the rate of inflation. They are rarely much of a burden and yet even these small increases can effect ridership.

Recent experience in the GTA has shown that fare increases coupled with service increases can produce a ridership increase. Usually ridership goes down when fares are increased, but service is not improved.

[Innsertnamehere]

The TTCs recent experience has been that ridership has dropped less than expected from fare hikes. IIRC when they hiked fares by 10 cents last year they expected a drop in ridership of something like 10 million riders annually, but only experienced something like 6 million.

[swimmer_spe]

So, now that the dust is starting to settle, lets think about all that infrastructure money that was promised.
$6 billion a year was promised. Lets say that half goes to transit. That works out to about $50k/1000 people.

If it did not need to be matched by the provinces or municipalities, what do you think the priorities should be in your area?

For example, the City of Toronto could get $130 million a year. Were could that go to to improve transit?

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, now that the dust is starting to settle, lets think about all that infrastructure money that was promised.
$6 billion a year was promised. Lets say that half goes to transit. That works out to about $50k/1000 people.

If it did not need to be matched by the provinces or municipalities, what do you think the priorities should be in your area?

For example, the City of Toronto could get $130 million a year. Were could that go to to improve transit?

No, it was 6 billion extra, not just 6 billion. But of that, I think most municipalities should invest in fuel saving measures and ghg emssion reduction. And perhaps look to electric busses that have quick charge points at bus stops to do so.

Additionally, if there were any planned expansions, the implementation date of those shoud be move up to better reap the rewards.

[jigglysquishy]

Traditionally, federal dollars go exclusively to rapid transit projects. To be fair, it makes sense as they are by far the most capital intensive.

Fleet expansion/renewal, greening the fleet, and other upgrades to standard buses are necessary too, but are often left municipal governments. It would be interesting to see if any of the new federal transit dollars go to regular old transit. It would certainly go a long way to improving transit service outside the ~dozen cities with existing/planned rapid transit.

I do fully expect that some major RT projects like the Broadway Skytrain, GO Electrification, Edmonton Valley Line, and the Montreal subway expansion to Anjou to get funded. We might even see new RT projects like the Victoria LRT or Saskatoon BRT get funded.

It's very exciting to be getting new transit dollars and there's not a single CMA in this country with adequate transit.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, now that the dust is starting to settle, lets think about all that infrastructure money that was promised.
$6 billion a year was promised. Lets say that half goes to transit. That works out to about $50k/1000 people.

If it did not need to be matched by the provinces or municipalities, what do you think the priorities should be in your area?

For example, the City of Toronto could get $130 million a year. Were could that go to to improve transit?

Read the platform. Bah! The answer is there.

[Taeolas]

I'm not sure where to begin to look at it; but is there any room on the Transit platform for smaller cities?

Fredericton is (IMO) in desperate need to expand its Transit system to add Sunday service; but I suspect the City isn't ready to consider it. If there were some Federal funds that might be available to sweeten the pot, it might be doable. (I'll probably write my MP anyway and put the bug in his ear for it. )

[MalcolmTucker]

Federal funds are normally capital only.

[Innsertnamehere]

For Toronto, a lot of it should go to their general capital shortfall instead of more large, glitzy new projects. Maybe just a little for the DRL.

[MalcolmTucker]

So here is the existing plus incremental funding the party campaigned on:

source: https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/investing-now/

New spending is this:

https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/08/An-historic-investment-plan.pdf

Changes to old spending is this:

We will make the New Building Canada Fund more focused. By providing significant, separate investments in public transit, social infrastructure and green infrastructure, we will enable the New Building Canada Fund to make greater investments in Canada’s roads, bridges, transportation corridors, ports and border gateways, helping Canada’s manufacturers get their goods to market.

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/new-building-canada-fund/

Also, for the provincial and city portions, for places that can't issue debt at as low of an interest rate as the federal government:

Where a lack of capital represents a barrier to projects, the Canada Infrastructure Bank will provide loan guarantees and small capital contributions to provinces and municipalities to ensure that the projects are built.

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/canada-infrastructure-bank%E2%80%A8%E2%80%A8/

[1overcosc]

I hope there will be some everyday operating funding as well. Capital funding is nice but if there's no regular funding to get transit vehicles actually running it's a problem. Look at York Region VIVA service and all those fancy busways built with provincial dollars that only have two buses an hour on them. Look at Ottawa and how they're spending billions on LRT while local bus service all across the city continues to flounder along barely resisting cuts.

In Kingston the city has chosen to eschew capital projects in favour of getting buses on the road; we've has slashed annual contributions to transit capital to fund operating expenses. As a result lots of things have been slow coming--we still don't have live updates for next bus arrivals, new shelter construction has fallen to almost a standstill, the bus fleet is starting to age (we got rid of all our high floor buses in 2011 but many of the older low floors are starting to get really old--we have some from 1998--and they're not getting replaced) promise of a new downtown terminal has been scaled back to simply adding more sidewalk space to the existing downtown bus stops, etc. All this to get new routes running and to add frequency to the system. But overall, I'd say this is a good move. I'd rather my bus route to get downtown have six buses an hour & arrive at a sign on a curb, then only come twice an hour and arrive at a fancy terminal.

[MalcolmTucker]

The traditional view of it is this: if a community values a project so little to not be able to fund it long term, then the project probably shouldn't be built. It just isn't sustainable.

It isn't the federal government's job to fill the gap when a centre wants to tax itself less and provide its residents with less services.

The New Building Canada Fund has these eligible cost breakdowns:
http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/plan/ptic-vipt/sc-pc06-eng.html

[Dwils01]

Seen something weird here today.
An articulated bus from Saskatoon Transit was filling up at the Petro-Can station here in the Sault.
They must have got really lost.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Dwils01

Seen something weird here today.
An articulated bus from Saskatoon Transit was filling up at the Petro-Can station here in the Sault.
They must have got really lost.

Hijacked?

A defection?

[Metro-One]

Here is a small update of the Evergreen Line.

In the first pic it is amazing how shinny and bright a new metro-line is.

Originally Posted by Monolith

Evergreen Line by Grant Mattice, on Flickr Taken on October 23, 2015


Lafarge/Douglas Station by Grant Mattice, on Flickr Taken on October 23, 2015


Lincoln Station by Grant Mattice, on Flickr Taken on October 23, 2015

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Dwils01

Seen something weird here today.
An articulated bus from Saskatoon Transit was filling up at the Petro-Can station here in the Sault.
They must have got really lost.

Probably a new bus being sent from the factory, or having been purchased from one Transit authority and/or being sent to another.

But yeah, seeing Transit buses out of their proper environments are always good for a double take and a chuckle.

[TorontoDrew]

I just saw one of these for the first time. The new end cabs. They look much nicer then the ones being replaced if you ask me.

From: www.blogto.com

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Ì have been in two breakdowns and it took the driver a few minutes to couple two streetcars. Not sure why this wasn't done. Maybe the streetcar hit something or there is some ridiculous procedure in place over coupling a disabled streetcar this veteran driver just ignored. (Same driver both times)

Twice I had to transfer to replacement buses as accidents further up the line knocked out the power grid. Streetcars were left blocking rush hour traffic for hours until power was restored.

It was my understanding many of the TTC's streetcars no longer have couplers on them, having been removed many years ago.

[matt602]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

It was my understanding many of the TTC's streetcars no longer have couplers on them, having been removed many years ago.

True.

"... Further fears about the couplers snagging pedestrians unlucky enough to be hit by these cars were trumpeted by councillor Edna Shiner, resulting in "safety skirts" nicknamed "Shiner shields" being installed in 1984. The couplers proved to be problematic in any event, and were removed by 1988."